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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Eidde on Tuesday 12 April 11 14:04 BST (UK)
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Hi everybody
This is a bit of a challenge, I think, and I'm not expecting miracles. I'm trying to figure out the word after 'ditte' in the attached record (line 4 ... catherine monceau ditte ???). I've transcribed and translated all the remaining text but I can't work out what this word is - a family name, a sobriquet, or what?
The record is a baptism of a child born to an unmarried mother in Boulogne in 1790 and the 'ditte' refers to the mother.
Looking forward to any suggestions.
Eddie
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It's really difficult to read - it could be two words, la connue for instance, or one, possibly laconire.
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It looks something like ...
Catherine Monceau ditte lacanere seloule rapport de lasage / lasaye femme qui vie nous ?figue
does that make sense? My French is pretty rusty!
Dawn M
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Could it be lacariere ? but that would probably have a grave accent over the iere. Otherwise lacanere.
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Hello. I cannot read the word, but Ditte is a family name in France. Could the mystery word be the woman's profession? People weren't very worried about spelling, accents, or using capitals in the 18th century. Further down I read the godmother was Marie Catherine Antoinette Ditte, "cousine issue de germain de l'enfant" ("cousin being the daughter of the child's first cousin").
I wish I could help more. Maybe I've got it all wrong ???
Regards from Vicarof.
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Apparently Ditte is a pet form of the name Edith so perhaps she is Catherine Monceau Ditte or more formally Catherine Monceau Edith
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Further down I read the godmother was Marie Catherine Antoinette Ditte, "cousine issue de germain de l'enfant" ("cousin being the daughter of the child's first cousin").
I don't think the surname of this person is the same word as the 'ditte' above - the first letter is formed differently and the double letter is not crossed. I am not sure what it is though.
Googling finds examples of both 'Lacaniere' and 'Lacanere' as surnames. I think 'ditte' in this context means 'known as' or 'otherwise' so the following word would be an alternative surname.
"Catherine Monceau otherwise Lacanere"
Hugh
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The girl child was baptised on 14 Oct. 1790, having been born at noon that same day to Catherine Monceau otherwise known as Lacanere, according to the midwife [selon le rapport de la sage femme] whose signature appears below..... The godfather [le parrain] is Jean Francois ___? who signs with us below, and the godmother [la marraine] is Marie Catherine Antoinette, the second cousin [cousin issu germain] of the child who gave her the name Catherine Francoise.
"Cousins germains" are cousins who have a grandfather (or grandmother) in common.
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Thank you all for your suggestions.
I'm pretty convinced that 'ditte' means 'known as' - I have a few others in my line (one person even seems to have a double nickname - Jehan le jeune dit dugros Delpierre = young John known as the big one Delpierre) but they've all been male.
I was hoping the word in Catherine's case was a some kind of description - something that would reveal a characteristic of the person perhaps. But if it's a surname, it'll be interesting to see if there's anyone in her family called Lacanere or the like. I read somewhere that a father could be 'acknowledged' in this way, if the parents were not married ... so I'm now keen to find Catherine's birth record to see if that sheds any light.
Once again, merci ŕ tous
Eddie
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What's that bit at the bottom where it says "pour Mamere Justine _____"? I think it means for grandmother Justine____? Maybe the grandmother made sure the baby was baptized, since the father was unknown and the baby was baptized the same day she was born, who else would do it?
Dit and Ditte followed by a noun/adjective means it's a nickname. My ancestry has Abraham Martin dit L'Ecossais (the Scotsman) and Jean-Baptiste Tetreau dit Ducharme (the charmer), I have seen baptismal records with ditte and that would just represent the female version of the nickname. Looking at my French-English dictionary I find that laconique means terse, laconisme means tersely, why wouldn't laconire mean the terse one?
It does look like pere inconnu, the godmother is Marie-Catherine Antoinette, fille (single) and the godfather is Jean-Francois Thery/Theri (two different spellings in the copy) The birth is 14 Oct., 1790.
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Thanks for your suggestions, Adele - 'the terse one' - I like the sound of that!
I'm told by a friend on a French genealogy site that 'mamere' refers to the midwife, Justine Coquelin, 'la sage femme' mentioned earlier.
I've now found out that the mother's parents were Robert Monceaux and Marie Margueritte Peronne Bazin, while the father's parents are unknown, of course. The baby's godmother is Marie Catherine Antoinette Pille, who was also the godmother to the baby's mother.
Thanks again
Eddie