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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: Mackiwi on Tuesday 12 April 11 06:03 BST (UK)
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Greetings all,
I am trying to identify 2 place names on 1861 & 1871 census.
Place of birth 1861 looks like Canado
1871 place of birth looks like America W C
they are 2 different members of the same family, one a son the other a daughter.
The rest of the families were born in the Sorn and Mauchline areas.
All suggestions welcome.
Mackiwi :) :)
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Can you tell us their names, so we can take a look for ourselves? Reference numbers would be good too if you have them. ;)
The obvious first thing that comes to mind is Canada ....
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1861 Census John Porter age 8 address C Mont-d Bridgend, Sorn Ayrshire place of birth Canado
1871 Census Jessie Porter age 16 address, looks like Townhead, ( mother was an Innkeeper in High street at that time) place of birth looks like America W C
Their father was an ag labourer in 1861, and in 1871 he was a forrester.
Very confusing
Mackiwi :-\
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I only have access to the 1861 on Ancestry which is a transcription - the original image is not viewable. According to Ancestry, John, Janet and James were all born in Canada. The oldest, George and youngest, Robert were born in Sorn. Address is given as 11 Montd Bridget. :-\
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I can see John and James in the 1871 census as farm servants in Mossbong (?) Tarbolton, Ayrshire. Both are born Canada.
I haven't located Jessie as yet but I think she is likely to be the 6 year old Janet in the 1861 census.
I can't find any of the other family members on the 1871 census. I will keep looking ... :-\
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By 1881 father George is a spirit merchant. The family are living in High St, Mauchline and have 7 children (that they don't have in 1861 ... ;)) some born in Sorn and some in Mauchline. Looking at the births they appear to have moved to Mauchline between 1867 and 1869.
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Hi Ruskie,
That is Mossblown near Tarbolton in Ayrshire had a lot of ancestors there around that time but they were mostly coal miners.
Jessie
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Thank you
Just had another look at the 1861 Census from S P C Mont_d Bridgend is the name of the road or street that they lived in.
It also has George, Robina, & son George age 10 as born on Sorn.
I wonder if Canado or Canada is the name of a farm in the area in 1861, as George senior was an Ag Labourer.
Mackiwi
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Thanks for the clarification about Mossblown Jessie. ;)
Mackiwi, in the 1861 census the youngest child Robert, as well as the oldest George, is also born in Sorn. The birthplace of John Janet and James definitely appears to be Canada (transcribed as such in both 1861 and 1871 censuses). If you look at all the other people's places of birth it says "Sorn, Ayrshire" or similar, however it's just plain Canada for these three. If it was a farm for example, you would assume that the enumerator would write "Canada, Ayrshire" wouldn't you? :-\
Of course I only have the transcriptions to go by, not images of the original documents.
Could you please give more details about Jessie and the rest of the family in 1871. I have searched far and wide but cannot locate them. There's obviously some kind of mistranscription but I've even tried searching by just first names and still no luck .... :-\
Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that George, Robina and family spent some time in Canada (the country)? :-\
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In the 1891 census is what appears to be your John Porter married to Elizabeth, living in Satnoskye (? :-\) Ayrshire. He is a British Subject, born Canada.
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In 1891 is a James Porter, BS America USA (BS = British Subject) - he is living in Dumfriesshire, but age is a bit out at 29 - he is married to Mary.
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This will need investigation but in the 1891 there is a Jessie Train married to Hugh and living in Loanfoot, Mauchline, Ayrshire. She is 36 and born in Canada. There are other Jessies born around the right time in Canada, but this one stood out as the age is spot on and they're living in Mauchline. ;)
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In case you don't already have this, it may help in the search:
George Porter
b 3 May 1859
Sorn
Father George Porter
mother Robina Henderson
(IGI extracted record)
There may be records of the younger children too but I'll leave them for you to find if you wish. :)
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Hi Ruskie,
This is my 3rd attempt to post a reply to you.
Yes you are on the right track, Jessie Porter maarried Hugh Train, and they took over the Thistle Inn in 1901.
George senior had died in 1889, Robina carried in on until 1901.
I never dreamed they haad lived in Canada or America, I wonder what took them over there.
Mackiwi
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It might be worth posting a query on the Canada board (provide a link to this thread), to see if anyone there can help.
I'm guessing that they would have gone for the work - labourers would have been in demand at that time with the expansion that was going on. They may have been taken there by an employer (passage paid for, house provided etc). Maybe they had to work to pay back these costs. Maybe their contract expired so they returned to Scotland or maybe they were homesick? All just speculation. ;)
I'm sure the folks on the Canada board will be able to help you further, perhaps even with immigration/entry details etc. They may even know of specific projects going on at the time that George may have been working on. Canadian censuses perhaps?
[just checked, and I don't think they would have been in Canada for a census unfortunately - as that might give you all sorts of info]
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Hi Ruskie,
You are probably right about work being the reason for them going over.
No they wouldn't have been over there in 1851 or 1861. George and Robina were both still single in 1851 and they were at 28 C Mont _d Bridgend, Sorn in 1861.
I will try the Canada board as you suggested.
Thank you for George Porters birth, some how I got that wrong and had his birth as 1851.
Must go back and check my source for that one.
Cheers
Mackiwi :)
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Yes, not sure of dates they would have been in Canada. In theory, they could have left just after the birth of George in 1849 and arrived back in Scotland just before the birth of Robert in 1861. Would they hve made it on any Canadian censuses?
Might they have arrived in the USA and then travelled to Canada? Someone with better knowledge than me might be able to help with this.
I suppose your birth year for George would have been an estimate from his age in the 1861 census?
Good luck with the search. It's interesting to try to speculate what their movements were and their reasons for travelling so far. :)
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The 1861 Census in Scotland was the 7th April :)
. It's interesting to try to speculate what their movements were and their reasons for travelling so far. :)
Adds to the fun of research.
Thank you for all your help :) :)
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Update.
America W C refers to American West Coast, now known as Ontario.
This is being continued in Canada, strong leads there.
Thanks all for your help :)
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Ah ha - mystery solved. :)
Let me know if you ever find out why they went to Canada. It's really curious. Probably more the fact they that returned to Scotland rather than staying in Canada.
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Maybe the grass wasn't greener. Will let you know if I find an answer. :)
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Good thread on the Canada board - I knew they'd be able to help you. :)
But how do those finds fit in with oldest child George being born in Sorn? Especially if George and Robina married in Canada? Maybe that is an error on the census and George was also born in Canada but mistakenly listed as Sorn? :-\
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That's a thought, re born in Canada, but Canada board have found a 2 year George old travelling with Robina Henderson 20 and Jane Porter 21. So was he Jane Porters or a slip for George & Robina. Not meaning to cast aspersions on anyones character.
:) :)
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re "America WC"
Between 1841 and 1867, WC or CW was the abbreviation (Western Canada) used to designate Ontario as distinct from Quebec (Eastern Canada).
Also, Canada was regarded as part of "America", a term which was not restricted to USA.
John