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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: welshwonder on Saturday 09 April 11 13:34 BST (UK)

Title: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Saturday 09 April 11 13:34 BST (UK)
Hi All Just wondering if anybody could help me with any information on Captain John Mills ,sorry I don't have any info on him but the battle was approx 1757.
Many thanks Fiona ???
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 13:43 BST (UK)
Possibly this one ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plassey

Trish :)
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 13:50 BST (UK)
Here we go, , Black Hole of Calcutta 1756;
Under Victims-Survivor Captain MILLS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hole_of_Calcutta
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 09 April 11 13:56 BST (UK)
Apparently he died in Camden Town in 1811, aged 88, the last of the survivors of The Black Hole, and is buried at St Pancras
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Saturday 09 April 11 13:58 BST (UK)
Yes thanks I read that on the site I just wondered if anybody could help regarding BMD and family etc as my great grandma was a Mills and I think some how she was related but am not sure how to start looking as I am new to Family history .Regards
Fiona
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Saturday 09 April 11 14:03 BST (UK)
Gosh Shaun that was quick! any luck with family by any chance PLEASE .thanks Fiona :)
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 14:14 BST (UK)
Other than that others may have an idea for you how to further research him;
I just googled John Mills

Captain John MILLS 1727-1811'
A Biographical Dictionary of Actors, Volume 15, Tibbett to M. ... - Google Books Result
Philip H. Highfill, Kalman A. Burnim, Edward A. Langhans - 1993 - Biography & Autobiography - 384 pages
... the Savoy, on 24 October 1767 Capt John Mills (1727—18 1 1), then a civil servant, one of the survivors of the Black Hole of Calcutta. ...

Info on his Wife Isaballa formerly Mrs Vincent a well know Actress in 1767;
John MILLS (1727-1811) was then a Civil Servant, and one of the survivors of the Black Hole of Calcutta........
If you keep reading on it mentions John and Isabells Children together;
John Wedderburn MILLS
Samuel Thomas MILLS, 15 March 1769
Alfred MILLS 1776-1833, Painter and Engraver
+ a possible Daug Elizabeth.
Possible engravings/portraits exist of them.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 14:15 BST (UK)
oops forgot the link;


http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cns/


Dont know how to shrink it :-[
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 14:19 BST (UK)
Sorry back one page is where it starts and Isabella was nee BURCHELL
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Saturday 09 April 11 15:13 BST (UK)
Hi


Something to book mark - Rootschat Shrink Long Website Links


http://www.rootschat.com/links/


Regards

Valda
Moderator
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 09 April 11 15:25 BST (UK)
Thank you Valda :)
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Saturday 09 April 11 15:29 BST (UK)
Hi

30th July 1811 St Pancras died 25th July
John Mills aged 90, Camden Town

Prerogative Court of Canterbury will
Will of John Mills, of Camden Town , Middlesex 15 January 1812 PROB 11/1529

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/power-search.asp?searchType=powersearch


It is usually better to start any searching from the known - your great grandmother and try to go back from that. If you post details of her Rootschatters will try to help you with her ancestry.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Saturday 09 April 11 15:32 BST (UK)
thanks Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: gandolf on Sunday 12 June 11 10:28 BST (UK)
Other than that others may have an idea for you how to further research him;
I just googled John Mills

Captain John MILLS 1727-1811'
A Biographical Dictionary of Actors, Volume 15, Tibbett to M. ... - Google Books Result
Philip H. Highfill, Kalman A. Burnim, Edward A. Langhans - 1993 - Biography & Autobiography - 384 pages
... the Savoy, on 24 October 1767 Capt John Mills (1727—18 1 1), then a civil servant, one of the survivors of the Black Hole of Calcutta. ...

Info on his Wife Isaballa formerly Mrs Vincent a well know Actress in 1767;
John MILLS (1727-1811) was then a Civil Servant, and one of the survivors of the Black Hole of Calcutta........
If you keep reading on it mentions John and Isabells Children together;
John Wedderburn MILLS
Samuel Thomas MILLS, 15 March 1769
Alfred MILLS 1776-1833, Painter and Engraver
+ a possible Daug Elizabeth.
Possible engravings/portraits exist of them.

Trish :)

Hello, Alfred Mills is not of this family tree, no connection to Captain John Mills, he is my 3rd great grandfather, i am helping to clear this mistake up, to help people on the correct tree, Alfreds dad, Isaac Mills.Artist and engraver also.many thanks, terry.
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Sunday 12 June 11 16:41 BST (UK)
Hi Terry, How do you know that this is the same family tree as yours
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Monday 13 June 11 08:06 BST (UK)
Hi


If Terry is correct there are now three possible Mills trees. The family of Captain John Mills, the family of Isaac and Alfred Mills who were engravers and the family of Thomas Mills the porter.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,525745.0.html

Because of dates Thomas the porter and Alfred the engraver cannot be directly connected.

What information does Captain John Mills Prerogative Court of Canterbury will give about his son Alfred?


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: gandolf on Monday 13 June 11 08:24 BST (UK)
Well done Valda, we have a wonderful copy of a diary held by a relation in London,Archivist for the Mills, Alfred was with Darton and Harvey for forty, years.
His son Alfred followed him in the trade, the diary from 1815 talks about the past years, the wars that Simon and Isaac were in, Simon was at Dettingen, 1721 birth date died 1768, they had a connection with WA Paxton, also,the walks around London, the flowers they saw and painted, a lovely read indeed.too many pages to tell all.
thanks Valda. Terry
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: gandolf on Monday 13 June 11 11:08 BST (UK)
If it will help others on this search, the following names might help,
Featherstone,Garrett/Garret, Paxton, and the town of Isham in Northamptonshire, of interest , paxton was a colourist of the highest order, in about 1788 he went to live with Gammock a nurseryman, famed for his 70,000 myrtles, near the old Ivy House Hoxton.they mention the prints he coloured were Gainsboroughs Girl and Pigs.
Cottage Children with the Alps, these are notes in Alfred Mills diary.

hope this will help someone. Terry.
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 19:20 BST (UK)
So basically back to square one  :(
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: gandolf on Monday 13 June 11 19:28 BST (UK)
Dont give up, the hunt is the best bit, i wish i was at the start, the wonder of finding the family and bringing them home its a joy, any help we can offer?

Diane.
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 19:35 BST (UK)
I need all the help you can offer after months of trying with Valda's help still can't find my gt gt grandfathers birth where do I go from here I have also been on Genes Reunited ,ancestry and any sites I can think of but as I am new to this don't know what else to try as I can't afford the amount they charge at the main archives so therefore can't get a birth certificate ???
Title: Pennell/Pannell
Post by: gandolf on Monday 13 June 11 19:39 BST (UK)
Hello, i need to come away from the Black hole subject and ask help fror a search, Mary Pannell married Charles Augustus PENNELL,Mary born 1826, Lympstone Devon, was in London prior to her death, last sighted in 1891, in London, her death is a puzzle, any help please however small, thank you all terry.
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 19:45 BST (UK)
Yes Seem to have tried everything but I can't find the birth it's driving me mad I have the marriage + death cert but can't find anything else not even for his father
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: gandolf on Monday 13 June 11 19:47 BST (UK)
What age on death cert, and where was he born. terry
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 19:52 BST (UK)
His name is James Mills, father Thomas, on his death certificate he died 25/3/1860 aged 34yrs and all the family come from Middlesex mostly Chelsea/Westminster :)
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Monday 13 June 11 20:02 BST (UK)
Hi


Civil registration began on 1st July 1837 so there are no birth certificates before this date only baptism entries. As Thomas Mills senior looks to be dead by the time of the 1841 census it always extremely difficult in a large city like London to know where and when he might have been born. As people arrived in London on a daily basis he could well have been born outside of the City and its surroundings. If Mary his wife was catholic there is a chance the baptisms of their children took place in catholic churches in which case the records are not usually deposited in record offices and don't appear online.
 

Have you been able to confirm whether the burial already given

19th March 1841 St Luke Chelsea
Thomas Mills aged 43 Upper Manor Street

is his?
What information does his death certificate give which confirm he is related to the family in Chelsea on the 1841 census. If that is him you know he was born circa 1797/1798 if his age on burial was accurate.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 20:25 BST (UK)
Hi Valda,

I checked the St Mary's cemetary in London today just in case they were catholics but they confirmed that James Mills was not burried here and I have also tried most of the other cemetaries in London and it was not open when Thomas would have died ,I know that James brother Thomas and Daniel were still alive after 1860 .Looking at James wedding certificate it names his father Thomas but it doesn't say dec'd like it does with his wife's father .The date of the marriage was 16/10/1853 so am not sure
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: welshwonder on Monday 13 June 11 21:14 BST (UK)
ames Mills
Age:    21
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1820
Gender:    Male
Where born:    Middlesex, England
   
Civil parish:    St Mary Le Strand
Hundred:    Westminster
County/Island:    Middlesex
Country:    England
   
Street Address:
Hoping that this maybe him in the 1841 census as he was employed as a porter I think at Liberty's though it say's that he worked at Christies how do I check that this is now him if they didn't have birth certificates ?
Occupation:
   
.
   
Registration district:    Strand
Sub-registration district:    St Mary
Neighbors:    View others on page
Piece:    741
Book:    1
Folio:    39
Page Number:    28
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Monday 13 June 11 21:21 BST (UK)
Hi

There is no question on the marriage certificate which specifies whether a father was dead or not. It was the custom and practice of some officials to ask the question and note it down. Many did not, though more did as the the century wore on. It was the custom and practice of some officials if the information was supplied (even if it wasn't asked for) to note it down. Again many did not. Churches in London were often marrying quite a number of people on anyone day, so they wouldn't spend a lot of time on the details before moving onto the next couple. Elizabeth may have supplied the information because her father would not be present to 'give her away'.

By 1860 nearly all churchyards in central London had shut and burials were in civic cemeteries that had consecrated ground - for Anglicans and non-consecrated ground for others. With a death registered in St George Hanover Square - Westminster, the first cemeteries to check would be Westminster ones. Westminster cemeteries because of space were established outside the borough.

Checking most of the civic cemeteries in London would be a mammoth task - there are over 150 of them, though not all of these would have been open in 1860.


Westminster cemeteries

Hanwell cemetery opened in 1854 and East Finchley opened in 1855. Paddington opened in 1855. If he was buried by the poor law guardians then some Westminster poor law unions had a deal with Brookwood Cemetery in Woking Surrey which opened in 1854. There was a train service with its own special platform which went straight to the cemetery.

Westminster council hold the records for Hanwell and East Finchley. Westminster controversially sold all its cemeteries in 1987 for 15 pence. These two cemeteries were neglected and following a public outcry Westminster was forced to buy them back. Paddington cemetery had been sold to Brent council however and they still maintain it.

Westminster cemetery office

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/services/communityandliving/burials/

Westminster Archives guide to cemetery registers

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/workspace/assets/publications/Info-Sheet-07-Cemetery-Regs-1278423620.pdf

Brookwood cemetery registers are held on microfilm at Surrey History Centre.

Brookwood cemetery

http://www.brookwoodcemetery.com/


Finding James or his brothers' burials will not help with establishing further information on their parents.

If Thomas senior, his father, died before the 1841 census it is more likely he was buried in a churchyard, though Kensal Green cemetery opened in 1833.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: Valda on Monday 13 June 11 21:40 BST (UK)
Hi


Then not the family in Chelsea you first thought?

1841 census HO107 688/15 folio 50
George Street Chelsea
Mary Mills 45 born Ireland
Thomas Mills 20 M S
Daniel Mills 15 M S
James Mills 12 Servant?
all born in county except Mary. Adult ages those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.


You would know from James' age at death on his death certificate which age is nearest. 12 would give a birth year of circa 1828/1829. The James in St Mary Le Strand since he was over the age of 15 would be likely to have an age that was rounded down to the nearest 5, so an age anywhere between 21 and 24 birth year between circa 1817/1818- 1819/1820.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Captain John Mills ( Black Hole of Calcutta)
Post by: baroff on Tuesday 16 August 11 09:43 BST (UK)
I have just read the following useful book by Brijen K Gupta "Sirajuddaullah and the East India Company 1756-1757". In which Captain John Mill's diary is quoted extensively. Captain John Mills, although recorded in the press as being the one of the survivors of the Black Hole of Calcutta, was in fact released the day before the incident.  However, of those actually incarcerated was a Mr Mills - no initial given. One of my uncles photographed the memorial to John Mills Esq at the old St Pancras graveyard some 40 years ago. At the time part of the memorial had broken away and what was left read as follows "also the aforesaid JOHN MILLS Esq who departed this life 20th July 1811 Aged 90 years he was the last survivor of the few persons who came out of the Black Hole of Calcutta in Bengal in the year 1756"  This would then make his date of birth 1721 rather than 1727