RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Pgrazini on Saturday 09 April 11 07:40 BST (UK)
-
My GGG Grandmother was born in Erith, Kent in Dec, 1850. She married Charles Mullin and lived in San Francisco. I don't know if the marriage took place before or after leaving England. This is all the information I have.
Any additional information would be very greatly apprectated.
Thank you so much for any help or tips.
Patty
Seattle,USA
-
Welcome to rootschat Patty.
The marriage does not appear on Freebmd:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Do you know when they went to the USA?
Have you done any searching in the USA for their marriage?
Were their children all born in the USA?
Is it just the marriage you are looking for or are you after other information such as census?
I'm just wondering if this post would be better on the USA board, depending on how much you already know about Charles and Mary Ann? (I suspect Charles to be of Irish descent ;))
Do you have a date of birth for Charles?
Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions, but the answers may help with the search ... :)
-
Thank you so much for the quick reply! I found the information on Mary Ann White, from an obituary, in a San Francisco newspaper. I haven't been able to find her immigration records. I assume she married after she arrived in the US, but I have no evidence either way. There was an earthquake in San Francisco in 1906. The courthouse where records were kept was destroyed. Therefore, I am unable to search for the marriage record. According to census records, all the children were born in California. Charles was Irish.
I'm just very curious about her. Thanks again!
Patty
:D
-
There ia a baptism for Mary Ann WHITE daughter of Henry & Mary Ann 4th April 1852 at Erith
-
Looking at freeBMD for Mary Ann WHITE births registered in the Dartford registration district (which includes Erith) there are 2 possibles
June quarter of 1849 & March quarter of 1852
So neither quite fit with a birth of December 1850 :-\
-
I'm afraid there are several Mary A Whites born around the right time in Kent on the 1851 English census.
Do you know the names of Mary's parents?
If not, what did she name her children in case this may give clues about her parents?
There are some US immigration records online but as you can imagine Mary Ann White is a fairly common name. Also the USA board would probably be the best place for a query specific to immigration and marriage.
Do you think Mary and Charles married in San Fran? What year was the first child born?
-
First, Thank all of you for the help. Gong through my files again today I found the obituary. This time I magnified a very blurry number and was off by a few days.
(A 3 mistaken for an 8) Her correct date of birth is Jan. 5 1851. I'm so sorry for this error and feel embarrassed to have caused anyone any trouble. :'(
Mary Ann White married Charles Mullin (Mullen) of Toomore, Cork Ireland. There children are John b. 1871, Mamie b.1872, Charles b. 1874, Catherine White 1874, Clare b. 1875, Helen b. 1886,
I don't know when they were married, but all the children were born in San Francisco. The birth and marriage records were destroy in the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco. I am relying on either newspaper obituaries and death certificates (post 1906).
Thank you so much. :)
-
Did Mary Ann die after 1906? Do you have her death certificate? If so does it say anything about her who her parents are?
I can't see a Mary Ann White birth on FreeBMD registered JFM 1851 in Kent.
Any other clues no matter how small may help locate her.
At the very least we know that Mary Ann was in San Fran by the time John was born in 1871 ... :-\
Mary Ann should appear on the 1851 English census which was taken on the night of Sunday/Monday 30/31st March 1851. I will try to locate her.
-
There are no Mary Ann Whites born in 1851 in Kent on the 1851 census. However there are several 2 month old Mary Ann Whites in the 1851 census who are born elsewhere.
Freebmd has 12 Mary Ann Whites registered in the March 1/4 (that is, born January, February or March) 1851. But none of them are in Kent.
How sure are you that your Mary Ann was born in Kent? :-\ Maybe the obituary was wrong about her place of birth? :-\
-
Do they appear on the 1871 US census? If not, which is the earliest US census that Mary Ann appears on? Do any of them not give year of emigration or number of years married? Sorry but my knowledge of the US census isn't that good so I might not be asking the right questions here.
There is this family .................
Mary Anne WHITE baptised Erith 4 Apr 1852 dau of Henry and Mary Anne http://www.familysearch.org
1861 - High St, Erith
Henry WHITE head mar 48 gamekeeper b.Erith
Mary wife 42 b.Erith
Edward son 19 b.Erith
Caroline dau 15 b.Erith
Henry son 13 b.Erith
Mary dau 10 b.Erith
Louisa dau 3m b.Erith
RG9/466 folio 26 page 45
..................
The problem is that Mary, the daughter, looks like she may still be in Erith 1871 ............... age 20 a domestic servant in the household of a William SMITH builder in the High Street, Erith RG10/881 folio 74 page 11.
Casalguidi :)
-
That's a close match casalguidi. :)
It appears that some of Patty's information may be wrong - for starters, either date of birth or place of birth. :-\
I think we need some more clues/facts before we can be sure, or take this any further ...
-
So, to get a picture of the family (I'm assuming it's this one) .............
"ALLEN--In this city, January 6, 1899, Viola May, dearly beloved daughter of Anthony and Mamie ALLEN, sister of Leslie and Cecil ALLEN, granddaughter of Charles and the late Mary A. MULLIN and niece of Mrs. J.J. MORGAN and John, Charlie, Kitty, Lillian and Jennie MULLIN, a native of San Francisco, aged 6 years." Source: San Francisco Bulletin, 7 Jan 1899.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/vitals/sfobiag.htm
1900 San Francisco
Anthony ALLEN b1866 Rhode Island - paver
Mamie wife b1872 California (father born Ireland, mother born England)
Leslie son b1891 California
Cecil son b1896 California
Charles MULLIN roomer b1874 California - messenger
Laura (married so assume wife of Charles) MULLIN b1867 England (emig. 1879)
T623_107 page 1A district 295
....................
Is this them ???
1880 - Water Street, San Francisco
Charles MULLENS 55 fruit dealer b.Ireland
Mary 30 b.Ireland (of Irish parents) ???
Mary dau 11 b.California
John son 9 b.California
Margaret 7 b.California
Charles 6 b.California
Kate 4 b.California
Elizabeth 3 b.California
Jane 1 b.California
Catherine White MULLEN born 27 Oct 1874 California died 29 Oct 1958 Santa Clara (father MULLEN mother WHITE)
Clair MORGAN born 12 Aug 1875 California died 21 Nov 1957 San Francisco (father MULLEN mother WHITE)
Casalguidi :)
-
Excellent! Well found Casalguidi! :)
-
Thank you so much everyone! Casalguidi-Thanks for the sleuthing. Yes this is my family! I don't think the 1880 census is the right family. I wish I was able to find them in a census. They are are very elusive bunch. The name seems to be spelled "Mullin" until the turn of the century and earthquake in 1906, and then it seems, the name changes to "Mullen" :-\
The information that I have on Mary Ann White is from one obituary...and so, it could be that the information was given incorrectly. ???
Again, Thanks so very very much!
Patty
-
I don't think the 1880 census is the right family.
I wouldn't be so sure. The order of the children in the census are:
Mary
John
Margaret
Charles
Kate
Elizabeth
Jane
The obituary of the ALLEN child lists them as:
Mamie (ALLEN) - Mamie is pet name for Margaret or Mary
Clair (MORGAN)
John
Charlie
Kitty (pet name for Catherine)
Lillian (pet name for Eliza)
Jennie (pet name for Jane)
The main oddities look to be whether Mamie was actually Mary or Margaret and who was Clair .......... was she either Mary or Margaret?
I can see them I think in 1871 but Mary, the mother, has a birth place of Ireland there too :-\
When did Mary Ann, the mother, die incidentally? Are all her children mentioned in her obituary and, if so, in what order and by what name?
Do you have other information on the family found in 1881 ie. finding them in later years which makes you think they are not the correct ones?
Casalguidi :)
-
I found the obituary from the San Francisco Morning call, Dec 29 1897.
Mullin-In this city, December 28, 1897. Mary A. dearly beloved wife of Charles Mullin, loving mother of Mrs. Mamie T. Allen and John W. Pinkie C. Charles D. Kittie I, Lillie D. and Jennie E. Mullin and grandmother of Leslie, Viola, and Cecil Allen, a native of Erith Kent, England. Aged 46 years 11 months and 24 days.
Then there is a mass and it states ahe was buried at Holy Cross cemetery. When I was in San Francisco last, I checked at the church and again ??? the records had been destroyed in the earthquake. I haven't checked with the cemetery but, I think the information may be the same as in the obituary.
This is all the information I have about her. It's puzzling. It would be great to be able to cross the ocean!
Thanks so much for your help!
Patty