RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: kdoodson on Sunday 03 April 11 12:39 BST (UK)

Title: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Sunday 03 April 11 12:39 BST (UK)
Is anyone researching the Smyth family.  I have gathered quite a bit of information lately but its difficult to get any further - i'm living in Oz.
I'm looking for Samuel Smyth born coalisland, co tyronne abt 1873 - his wife named susan b abt 1872 loughbrickland, co antrim.  They were married around1894? I think they were church of Ireland or protestant.  And Samuel did belong to the the orange order.

children samuel born abt 1896 Bangor - county Down
             kathleen b    abt 1897  Ireland ?
             Shadrack b   abt 1900   Ireland ?

the family moved to England - they appear on the 1901 census.  Both kathleen and shadrack unfortunately die very young. 

Can anyone give me any help with this....... thankyou  karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 03 April 11 13:46 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat. I've moved your post to Ireland-General board since it seems to involve several counties (Ireland Resources isn't for posting queries).

Unfortunately 1901 is the first complete census for all Ireland but your Smyth family were in England by then (although it might be helpful later when more relatives are found).

Starting with the son 'Shadrack'- the 1901 census lists a Shadrach Smythe age 1 born Ireland in Warrington. However, I haven't been able to find a corresponding birth in Irish civil registration index yet.

The marriage of Samuel and Susan should be in the index which will get you the details needed to order the certificate.

Have to go out now but will do a bit more searching for them later if nothing else has been posted.

Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Sunday 03 April 11 15:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for that.... It'll be the first thing I check when I wake in the morning. I can't keep my eyes open. Been sat here for about 3 hours.... great hobby this!
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 04 April 11 08:58 BST (UK)
Hi,
    There was a marriage of Samuel Smyth, father John, to Susan McClean, father John Mawhinney McClean, in Felt Street Salvation Army, Shankill Belfast on 1 Jan 1894.
    However I can also find two other marriages of a Samuel Smyth close to that year. One to Susan Harding in 1893 in Trinity Church of Ireland, Shankill and the other in 1891 to Susanna Edgar in Agnes St, Methodist Church, Shankill.

Regards
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 04 April 11 09:02 BST (UK)
I found 3 possible marriages- (all Co.Antrim)
Samuel Smyth m.1891 Susanna ?
Samuel J. Smyth m.1893 Susan ?
Samuel Smyth m.1894 Susan ?
If the marriage was registered under SMITH there might be more possibilites. However, the problem is that even if you looked up these marriages you wouldn't know which, if any, are the correct couple.
The children's birth certificates will list mother's maiden name- I though Shadrach would be easiest to spot in the civil index but he's not listed with the name Shadrach Smyth/Smith (could have been registered without first name being chosen).

Next problem is Susan's birthplace "Loughborough, Antrim" - is this from a census record? there doesn't seem to be such a townland in Co.Antrim (the only Loughborough in Ireland is in Co. Clare).

Added- see that kingskerswell has found the names of the 3 brides
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 04 April 11 09:09 BST (UK)
Trying to find any of those 3 couples in 1911 census to rule out the marriages.
Samuel Carson Smyth and wife Susan married 21 yrs (c1890)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Court/Broadbent_Street/135049
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Monday 04 April 11 09:32 BST (UK)
Right,  new bit of energy....

Susan was born in Loughbrickland, Antrim.

And on the 1911 census the family are still in Warrington.  Minus Kathleen and Shadrach. Both died.  But with two new children.....
the census says the couple were married 17 years...... hence the guess at 1894.  Could be the 1893 one. 

Good idea to find a birth certificate of one of the kids to see the mothers maiden name.

Samuel was married in warrington in the trinity church.  He was born abt 1896 in Bangor, co. down. ....  do you have the ability to find him by any chance.
thanks karen

Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Monday 04 April 11 09:40 BST (UK)
Thanks Kingskerswell, I'm hoping that its one of those marraiges. 

One story I remember when I was little was that samuel and susan had a B&B in Belfast before they left.  Unsure if their is a directory............ they can't of owned it.  Unsure if its even true!

Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 04 April 11 09:46 BST (UK)
Are the two 'new' children born in England? If so birth certificate for either would list mother's maiden name.

Loughbrickland is in Co. Down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughbrickland

There are directories for Belfast area online but Bed & breakfast is a recent term- probably listed as something like rooming house. However, many people rented out rooms in their houses and might not be listed in directories.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/street_directories.htm
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 04 April 11 10:28 BST (UK)
Hi,
    As a further attempt at elimination I have checked for a marriage using the spelling Smith to a bride called Susan around 1894 with no success.

Regards
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 04 April 11 10:29 BST (UK)
Think the logical next step is to find mother's maiden name from one of the children's birth certificates.
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Monday 04 April 11 11:18 BST (UK)
Yep!  The two children born in Warrington are Stephen and Lydia.  Stephen was my grandfather.  I'm trying to find his birth date at the moment.   It seems the best way to go.  Great push in the right direction thanks...
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Friday 08 April 11 05:10 BST (UK)
Right, can't find Stephen Smyth anywhere but Lydia has a birth certificate number.  So I've pulled in a favour  and sent somebody into the warrington registry office to see firstly if they'll look for Stephen -because I would like his birth cert - and then if not to get Lydia's.

Looked at the loughbrickland site that you sent me............ and decided that I have to go. 

thanks karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 08 April 11 08:14 BST (UK)
Let us know when you do get more details  :)
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Tuesday 19 April 11 08:47 BST (UK)
Yeah! A result.

Susan's maiden name is mcClean.

So it looks like we got the marriage clue first. What next!

Thanks a million Karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Monday 02 May 11 03:35 BST (UK)
Hi againEveryone

Got a copy of Stephen's birth certificate and Susan has registered the birth herself and spelt  Smyth (Smith) and spelt McClean (McLean) I do know its them because Stephen was born at home and its the correct address.  34 Forster St.

How can I now get a copy of the marriage cert that kingskerswell has found...
Samuel Smyth and Susan McClean
Felt Street Salvation Army
Shankill.  Belfast 1st Jan 1894.

And secondly what other information can I now find out about them.   

Thanks karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: Katharine75 on Monday 02 May 11 05:50 BST (UK)
Karen. I recently ordered some certificates (family research photocopies) via the GRO in Ireland. They have a website online. I am in Australia too, and found the most cost effective way to get the order was to fax a letter with the registration numbers and my credit card details directly to the registry. The certificates arrived in less than two weeks! From memory I think they are only around $5 AU each (not much at all!).

You can find the civil registration indexes online at LDS familysearch website.

Katharine.
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 02 May 11 08:25 BST (UK)
See here for details on Irish marriage certificates and how to order them-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html

You'll need to get the details from the civil registration index to order the certificate-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Monday 02 May 11 14:20 BST (UK)
Great! I'll start working on that tomorrow.
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Wednesday 04 May 11 06:53 BST (UK)
Thanks Katharine75 I've found the LDS index from aghadowey's lead - and faxed over a request for a Marriage Certificate -To the CRO Ireland - 10 Euro's (A Bargain).

The curtains will be twitching for that postman after a week.

Can't ask for more help yet........ just need that cert!

karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: Katharine75 on Wednesday 04 May 11 10:43 BST (UK)
That's good Karen. I have found that to be cheapest with Ireland. I got a shock when I went to my bank (westpac) and was told to get a bankcheque would cost me $35 or so, on top of the amount i needed!!!!!
Katharine.
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: kdoodson on Tuesday 17 May 11 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi everyone
Received the marriage certificate of Samuel and Susan............. here goes

Samuel Smyth. Bachelor. Age 21.  Plasterer.  North Street, Newtownards. Father William James Smyth.  Farmer dec'd

Susan McLean Spinster Age 20. Bloomfield. BallymcCarett. Belfast.  Father Hugh McLean. Labourer dec'd

Marriage date 1st January 1894 - witnesses Agnes McLean and Robert James Patterson
Salvation Army, Felt Street, Belfast.

Can anyone find me any more information on these people.  Or suggest where to look.

Thanks a million Karen
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 17 May 11 13:15 BST (UK)
Children of Hugh McClain and Martha Jardin-
1. Agnes born 10 Sept.,1864 Loughbrickland district (page 227 in civil register)
2. Susan born 8 June 1868 Loughbrickland district (page 279 in civil register)
Title: Re: Smyth family tree
Post by: Katharine75 on Tuesday 17 May 11 13:53 BST (UK)
Hi Karen,

I had a look at the 1901/1911 Irish Census. All I could find was in 1901 what seems to be the family of the witness Robert James Patterson living in Whitla St, Belfast - religion was Salvation army.
Couldn't find him in 1911. Check out the link below - he might be interesting to note, as he could turn out to be a relative. Note he named a son Samuel!

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward__Belfast/Whitla_Street/933237/

Had a look, and couldn't find Agnes on either. Nor any Smyth's or McLean's who were Salvation Army that looked like they could fit. Someone else might be able to see something of relevance.

Katharine.