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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: unknownmale on Thursday 31 March 11 18:00 BST (UK)

Title: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Thursday 31 March 11 18:00 BST (UK)
Hi Folks,

I have trawled Scotlands people for the death of a Leonard Smith Born Scotland( Stirlingshire) December 1913 but cannot find him. An uncle informed me yesterday that he Leonard went to England to run a B & B. I have no clue where or when. Quetions is what would be the best way to Trawl the English records I am unfamiliar with them, whereas I know my way around Scotlands people.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: larkspur on Thursday 31 March 11 18:20 BST (UK)
There are 85 Leonard Smith Deaths, with birth 1918, in England. Did he have a middle name at all?
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Thursday 31 March 11 18:32 BST (UK)
Sorry Larkspur,

 his birth was in Scotland in 1913, as far as I am aware he had no middle name. I have him marrying in 1933 in Scotland.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: groom on Thursday 31 March 11 18:34 BST (UK)
Hi

Best way is to use Freebmd  

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
 
 trouble is Smith is not the easiest of names.

Good luck

Jan
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: davidft on Thursday 31 March 11 19:05 BST (UK)
Are you sure he was born 1913 ?

doing a search of Scotlandspeople seems to suggest 1914

Have you seen the birth registration on scotlandspeople ? If not it would be worth looking at as then it will tell you if he had a middle name


After that you can start to look for him on English BMD records. This is probably going to mean using subscription sites like Ancestry or findmypast as his death is possibly going to be too late to be on freebmd.

However the first step must be to look up the birth registration as it would help enormously if he did have a middle name.

 Failing that if his wife's name is more unusual or if she has a middle name it may be worth looking for her death first as it could be an indication as to where he died

Finally do you know what his mothers maiden name was, was it Beller by any chance ?
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Thursday 31 March 11 19:37 BST (UK)
davidft, hi and thanks, I recall I actually visited the registrars office in the town where he was born, I am sure it is 1913, strangely enough I did revisit Scotlandspeople today and noted the 1914 birth. Unfortunately there was also one in 1912 so I am unsure. He married Jessie Clark in Stirlingshire in 1933 I think, it was due to the good offices of Rootschat members that I found that. Initially I had identified her death in Fife, but due to the Smith name, I was hesitant about purchasing the cert. however I relented and it was. However, there is something strange about it and without being disrespectful about him, there appears to be some mystery regarding his marital status, hope that is fairly clear. P.S. the reluctance to buy the cert is due to being an Aberdonian famous for being tight fisted, actually I had purchased several which were incorrect. (Costly) I am as I said not too familiar with the English records. I appreciate the BMD are too early I just had a look in response to an answer from another rootschat member. I will have to reafirm the daqte.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Thursday 31 March 11 20:19 BST (UK)
Hi again davidft.

A penny suddenly dropped after your post I have a birth date of the 18th. December 1913, It is I suppose it was possible/likely the birth was not registered till 1914 due to festive season, does that sound feasable, I have a hard copy somewhere in my vast pile of paper must find it.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: davidft on Thursday 31 March 11 22:15 BST (UK)
A penny suddenly dropped after your post I have a birth date of the 18th. December 1913, It is I suppose it was possible/likely the birth was not registered till 1914 due to festive season, does that sound feasable, I have a hard copy somewhere in my vast pile of paper must find it.

Yes that sounds very likely so looks like the 1914 registration is him.

Would be good if you can find the hard copy as there may be extra information on there that would help find him
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: davidft on Friday 01 April 11 13:42 BST (UK)
In England and Wales the date of birth appears on death certificates from 1969.

Given the date of birth you provided above, 18 December 1913, i did a search from 1969 to 2005 for a Leonard Smith born on 18 December. I did not enter the year in case the person reporting the death got it wrong by a year or two.

There were no results that could be your Leonard Smith. This is either because he died before 1969, died outside England and Wales, or the person registering the death got the details wrong.

(The search I did, did include Leonard Smiths with middle names)
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Friday 01 April 11 14:04 BST (UK)
Hi Davidft,

Thanks a lot, I did say somewhere there was something strange about this man but will have to keep plugging away, I cannot find him on Scotlands people either. Brick wall I think.

Regards Jim
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: davidft on Friday 01 April 11 15:12 BST (UK)
unless you know otherwise it is possible he died after 2005. Deaths after 2005 are not online though instead you have to go to places like the British Library of National Archives to look them up.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Friday 01 April 11 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi again David,
 I am trawling through my paper work there is tons of it I cannot for the life of me find the death cert of Leonards wife who died in Fife, I cannot recall what it stated in terms of her matrimonial situation I don`t believe it stated she was a widow she died in 1981. Whilst raking through the paper work I found some notes, which say, " Lennie, Hotel Scarborough, I am wondering if there is any online info regarding hotels in Scarborough ? Driving me mad this one, thanks a millin for your help.

regards,

Jim
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Saturday 02 April 11 14:34 BST (UK)
Hi folks,

Thanks to all who answered I have now found the death cert. For Leonards wife who died in 1981, in Fife, her marital status given as widow, Leonards occupation given as DECK CHAIR ATTENDANT, never seen that  before.  Any clues out there ?

Thanks,
Jim.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 April 11 16:02 BST (UK)
Hi Jim

Well at least you now know that he died before 1981, so that narrows it down a bit. The only other clue is, that if he was a deckchair attendant you are probably looking for a death at a seaside resort.  ;D ;D

Jan
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Saturday 02 April 11 16:43 BST (UK)
Hi Jan and thanks,

I don`t know if you saw my previous I have a scribbled note saying, "Lennie Smith D. Hotel Scarborough" I have no idea where I got that info, but might be a fair clue. I wondered if any Scarborough papers had online archives so I might try to find it that way ? I cannot find him on Scotlands People.

Once again, thanks, hope I am in a position someday to offer some assistance to the site.

Regards,
Jim.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: Mizelar on Saturday 02 April 11 21:32 BST (UK)
It is not unknown for a separated wife to say she's a widow, however, since L was a deck-chair attendant, he probably died before the advent of the plastic garden chair.

A deck-chair attendant would usually be employed by the local council, but a top-notch hotel might also have employed one.  You could make inquiries with Scarborough council to see if he was employed there.

Your note implies that L died at a hotel.  He could have been living there, if he was wealthy enough, or employed there, living in or out.  He might have died on the premises while having a drink or meal.  He may also have collapsed or been involved in an accident on the street, taken into a nearby hotel and died there.

From your note, it would either be a hotel in Scarborough or a hotel named Hotel Scarborough.

As a point of interest, did he have any family connection with Scarborough?  I did see an obituary for a Leonard Smith who died in the Scarborough area in 1889.

Best wishes.
Title: Re: seeking a possible death in England
Post by: unknownmale on Saturday 16 April 11 11:20 BST (UK)
Thanks Mizelar for your reply, alogies to anyone else who has replied to the thread I have been laid out with illness over the past two weeks therefore not attending to business.

Thanks to all