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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 19:52 BST (UK)

Title: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 19:52 BST (UK)
Hello All

I am at a standstill trying to locate any info on my grandfather's family (or any info on my grandfather's birthplace , etc...)

His name : William Joseph Massey
      Born   : 29 Sept. 1876 (varies from '76 to '79 depending on source)
the birthdate comes from his WW1 draft reg. - I know this one is his because the address he gave is the same one at the time of his death

Birthplace : Ireland   ????

Immigration : Unknown - he died at age 40 (or up to42 , again , depending on source of birth year)
his death cert states he was a resident of US (and NYCity) for 36 years (which would have him arriving 1879/80 (or up to 1884 depending on source) , yet on 1910 census it states his year of immagration as 1892    ???????
I've checked Ellis Is. database with no luck


Father: William              Birthplace : Ireland    ????
Mother: Julia O'Herlihy   Birthplace : Ireland    ????

birth years/marriage year unknown for Wm. and Julia

the father and mother info came from my grandfather's death certificate from 1918 (image attached)

unfortunately , my living relatives are as clueless as I am  :'(

when I had a subscription at anstry , I tried all ways I could think of for info (I had the 'world' subscription) and I've tried LDS (1 of the 5 census are definitely my g'father (1910 census) , 1 is a very , very strong (99.9% certain)possibility (1900 census) , NJ State census a possibility and other 2 ruled out .
None of the birth or marriage records seem to match my g'father or his parents .

As I said in the header of my message , I know this is a real shot in the dark but seeing some of the amazing results you all seem to have in finding the 'needle in the haystack', I  wanted to put this up and give it a whirl .

I want to thank everyone , in advance , for taking some of your time to read/research/respond to this .

Thank You

jackjohn
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:03 BST (UK)
no direct link for William, but there is a possible sibling listed in the extracted records on familysearch :

 name:   Helena Maria Massey
 birth date: 29 Sep 1878
 birthplace:  Cork
 parents : William Bennett Massey & Julia O'Herlihy

This record doesn't mention where in Co. Cork ... but it may be possible to find a matching civil BMD index record. These details can be used to order a birth cert - which will give a more precise location. e.g. a street, village or townland


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:16 BST (UK)
There's a good full name match for that extracted record in the BMD Index. The registration district is Cork, which is quite large so doesn't really narrow down the location. It covers the city and also a large area of the county including towns such as Cobh, Ballingcolling, Blarney, Glanmire, Passage West and Watergrasshill

 Name: Helena Maria Massey
 Registration district:   Cork
 Event type: Birth
 Quarter and year: Oct-Dec 1878
 Volume : 5 / Page : 117

I dont see any good matches for Williams birth in the Cork area on either the extracted records or the BMD Index.

See :

  Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
  Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
  Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:23 BST (UK)
and a possible marriage cross-match from the BMD index for the parents :

 Name: William Bennett Massey
 Registration district: Cork
 Event type: Marriage
 Year: 1876
 Volume : 20 / Page : 85

  name:   Julia O'Herlihy
  [same references as William]


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:34 BST (UK)
Hi Shane

Thanks for the super fast response(s) . I had seen that entry a while back . I think I may have mistakenly dismissed it because I had it stuck in my head that fathers had the habit of naming their sons after themselves (i.e. my g'father Wm. Joseph named his first son Wm. Joseph , my father was John Patrick and he named me John Patrick) . But I have read here that that naming pattern is not always the 'norm'. The birth date would fit perfectly (if g'father did in fact die at 40 y.o. in 1918) and other than the middle name of Bennett , everything else fits nicely ... and I never gave it a thought that he could have been a 'twin'. And thank you for the additional follow-up replies !! I hadn't even finished typing my reply to your first response and you replied twice more !! Amazing  ;D  I will have a look at BDM index again with this info .

Thank You so much !!!!
jackjohn
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:45 BST (UK)
Not certain if this is the same person (there's several William B. or Bennet Massey's listed in the BMD Index records around that time), but there's a William B. Massey, artist listed in Slater's directory of 1881, with two addresses in Cork city

  102 Patrick St and 66 North Main Street

The listing section is titled Artists - portrait, miniature, landscape &c and painters. He's also listed under booksellers & stationers


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 30 March 11 20:57 BST (UK)
Wasn't your William Joseph Massey a photographer in New Jersey? perhaps father was an artist...
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:05 BST (UK)
Hi aghadowey

I was just going to respond to Shane's reply that in the 1900 NJ census (one I was unsure of) Wm. J's occupation was listed as a photographer and I know he made a living as a sign painter later in life . He's listed as a 'sign painter' on 1910 census and as a 'painter' on his death cert .

Again , thank you so much for all this information . I think I may be finally finding some answers to my questions .
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:21 BST (UK)
a couple questions about the Slater's directory ....

1) was the Slater's directory a sort of pre- telephone type directory for the city/town ?

2) would the listing of the two addresses be a home address and a business address ?
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:24 BST (UK)
a couple questions about the Slater's directory ....

1) was the Slater's directory a sort of pre- telephone type directory for the city/town ?

2) would the listing of the two addresses be a home address and a business address ?

Slater's is a trade/street directory and like other's includes officials, prominent people and certain trades. There's are some other Cork directories searchable online - see the Cork resources section of RootsChat for links. The two addresses are probably business listings, but the family could have lived over one of these.

there's a possible connection on the 1901 census- another Massey household with one of the same trades as William B. - a bookseller named Nassau (mistranscribed as Nassan).

  Massey household - 1901 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_East_Ward/Ballinamought_East/1101373/)


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:32 BST (UK)
found a listing in the alphabetical index of Guy's directory of 1884 (http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1884citycountyalmanacanddirectoryguys/) of the Cork Past and Present website mentioned in the resources link.  W.B. and Nassau are mentioned with 5 address between them.

The directory probably has a trades or street listing included, but I haven't found this yet..

see : Massey (http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1884citycountyalmanacanddirectoryguys/1884pages168to209/CorkCity&County1884Pages180%20to%20185.pdf)  (pdf file - see page 2 of 3)


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:44 BST (UK)
there's a marriage for Nassau & Jane in the extracted collection on familysearch - might be useful to have in case he turns out to be a brother or other relation of William B.

 Groom: Nassau Massey
 Bride:   Jane Peasley
 Marriage date:   26 Aug 1852
 Marriage place:   Cork
 groom's father  Samuel Massey
 bride's father: William Peasley


Shane
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Wednesday 30 March 11 22:07 BST (UK)
could actually be W.B. father

found Nassau Massey in Civil Registrations

Nassau Massey
 Cork
 DEATHS
 Apr - Jun 1912
Est. Birth Year: 1823
Age (at Death): 89


born about 1823 ... if my g'father was born 1878 and Nassau married in'52 , W.B. could have been born '52 - '58 or so , married in '76 ....... had g'father (and Helena Marie it seems) in '78
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 30 March 11 22:50 BST (UK)
May have been more than one with that name- marriage bond for a Nassau Massey and Catherine Shea in 1815:
http://www.osheaclan.org/mlb.pdf

Obituary of Nassau Massey, bookseller, Cork.
http://sources.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=nassau+massey&type=AllFields&submit=FIND
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: jackjohn on Thursday 31 March 11 18:33 BST (UK)
found Julia O'Herlihy listed at 66 No. Main street in 1875-76 in a Cork City's Residents listing .  http://digdatgenealogy.com/cork75o.htm
 
This address comes up in the 1881 Slater's Directory listing for one of the addresses listed for W.B.  ... as referenced by shane in an earlier reply in this thread (reply #5)

curious if this was a residence above a type of shop (according to what I could find) , that address is a retail shop presently



Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark. 1872 photo of Massey bookshop in Oliver Plunkett St Cork
Post by: pdonovan on Wednesday 19 April 17 00:00 BST (UK)
Hi
I Recently came across a picture of Cork's South Mall showing the Imperial Hotel in 1872 on the NLI website. The picture can be magnified, so I decided to have a look down the side street called Pembroke Street. Thinking here was to see if I could identify the shops and thus positively date the picture using the information in Guy's street directory for 1875.

This I succeeded in doing. The shop visible here facing the end of Pembroke St was occupied by a bookseller named Nassau Massey. It's blurry but you can make out the words N Massey over the first floor window, and the sign on the downstairs retail shop (trust me) says  School + College Books.

He was gone from this premises by 1881, and the shop is now occupied by the Cobbler, a shoe repair and leather goods shop just diagonally across the road from the Cork GPO.

Here's the link to the NLI photo. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000339590
Lots of interesting things to be seen in the front view of the Imperial, also. Photography was in it's infancy and there are a dozen or so ghostly images of Imperial Hotel bystanders . Enjoy.
Title: Re: A Shot in the Dark
Post by: dathai on Wednesday 19 April 17 08:02 BST (UK)
Helena Maria Massey born Sep 29th 1878 no twin to William Bennett Massey,Photographer and Julia O'Herlihy of 102 Patrick St,Cork
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02936/2075776.pdf

appears to have married William V Cronin in Manhatton 1898
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F67K-441

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WW6-VDD

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WHL-FGV

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WZS-NN6

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W8F-L52