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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Biddydi on Tuesday 29 March 11 16:09 BST (UK)
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I am looking for my ancestors who were born in "Jack's Land", Newarthill, District of Holytown, County of Lanark in the 1800's.
Jane Craig Russell, my aunt, was born in 1895 to Jane Scott Jack (born abt 1893) and Robert Russell (born abt 1875. Jane Scott Jack and Robert Russell were married on September 2, 1892.
Besides my aunt, they had a son, Jas who was a coalminer and was 18 years old in 1901, Elizabeth, who was 7 and Robert who was 3.
My mother was Jemima Russell who was born on June 16, 1915 in the above area and emmigrated to Canada with my Aunt Jane (Jeannie) and possibly a sister, Elizabeth on the Laurentic which landed in Quebec on May 30, 1931.
Can anyone help?
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Hi Biddydi
Are you looking to find the families of Robert Russell and Jane Scott Jack, their siblings and info on their parents? If so, what were the names of their parents from their 1892 marriage cert? This will help people when trying to do searches for you :)
Monica
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Birth years for Robert and Jane a bit earlier than you show, from 1901 - everyone showing as born in Newarthill, Lanarkshire:
Robt Russell 45, coal miner
Jane Russell 44
Jas Russell 18
Eliza Russell 7
Jane Russell 5
Robt Russell 3
Address: Jacks Land, Holytown
Confused about ages and relationships here Biddydi!
If Jane born 1895 was your aunt, and your mother Jemima was born in 1915, ages of parents above (Robert and Jane) don't fit :-\
Monica
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Hello Monica:
I do not have a copy of the Marriage Certificate of Jane Scott Jack and Robert Russell. Their marriage date was taken from my Aunt's Extract Entry of Birth dated the 2nd of November, 1895.
An estimate was given for their birthdates in my original enquiry.
There is some dark area where my mother is concerned. We were raised to think my mother was the sister of Jane Craig Russell but I cannot find any mention of her. I do know that they came over on the Laurentic together though with an Elizabeth Russell, a sister.
Dianne
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Could Jemimas mother be Jane or Elizabeth?
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Jemima's birth certificate would need to be ordered to confirm her parents, unless someone looked it up during a visit to the Genealogy Centre
1915 RUSSELL JEMIMA F HOLYTOWN /LANARK
Robert and Jane were both 36 yrs old when they married on 2 September 1892 in Newarthill. Robert was a widower and Jane a spinster
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Hi Dianne
Sancti has included some useful references for you to be able to follow up on. It does look likely that you may have some digging to do as you expected (which I am relieved about rather than this coming to you out of the blue....).
Not sure if you have carried out research in Scotland before and need some guidance for that. This is a useful guide here on RootsChat for you to have a look at: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html - Where to start with Scottish Research?
There is only one source for BMDs in Scotland and this is the pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which although pay to view, the costs are reasonable. You can view images of certificates on line up to certain years (due to data protection) and after these cut offs, you have to order official extracts of certificates. For birth, the current cut off is 1910 (100 year rule). The cost of ordering a certificate directly through Scotlands People is £10GB. This fee is about to increase in a matter of days, on 1 April, to £12GB.
In your position, I would make ordering your mother's birth certificate my first start point and then start working back from there. There can be many twists and turns on research, and it is easy to make assumptions which can be wrong.
The marriage of Robert Russell and Jane Scott Jack can be viewed on line for £1.20GB (a minimal rise on this cost is also due on 1 April). Scottish certs in general are some of the best in terms of info and will give you all the info you need to be able to work back on their lines. There is a lot of resources generally available for research in Scotland for this earlier period which makes it easier.
For example, this looks a likely birth entry for Jane Scott Jack from IGI on www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Jane SCOTT JACK born 26 Sept. 1856 in Bothwell, Lanark
Parents: James JACK and Jane CRAIG
A further likely entry for Robert Russell:
Robert RUSSELL born 28 Nov. 1855 in Bothwell, Lanark
Parents James RUSSELL and Elizabeth COWAN
The families for both show in the ealier censuses in Newarthill and are easy enough to find on the censuses. Would be good to confirm though first Robert and Jane's parents' names from their marriage cert to let you work back with confidence on their lines. Their families, from what I can see, look to be very much based in Newarthill as their parents also show as being born there on the censuses. This will be very much where the families' history lies together with a strong coal mining tradition. A lot of mining history in that part of Lanarkshire. There are a number of historical sites for mining in this area which will let you learn more about their lives and working/living conditions for later!
The Scottish 1911 census is due to be released on 5 April this year, which will help you further with the family.
Monica :)
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Dianne, just been trying to find the shipping manifest that you mentioned (the arrival in Quebec of the Laurentic on 30 May 1931) to see whether there was anything to be gleaned from it.....and there is :) Took a while to find as your mother was transcribed on the index as Jemina Mussell ::)
There is a little bit of scoring through for corrections to the manifest, following an investigation it would appear, but in essence you have:
Jeanie Russell, 35 and her daughter Jemima, 15, both from Newarthill travelling to Jeanie's sister Mrs Elizabeth Irvine (also written as Mrs J Irvine, perhaps the name of Elizabeth's husband?) who was living in Toronto, Ontario. Contact in the UK is Jeanie's brother, Robert, back in Holytown.
Monica
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Monica you have the correct parents and Elizabeth Cowan Russell was deceased at the time of Roberts marriage, his father, James, was a coalminer
Jane's parents were still alive
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That's great Sancti, we are on the right lines then :)
Monica
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Monica and Sancti:
Thank you so very much for all the wonderful information you have provided to me regarding my mother's family in Scotland.
As I am very new at this, I am finding it a bit overwhelming but also very exciting.
Because I am new, I find it a bit scary ordering documents online for security reasons as you may well understand, but I will give it a try, starting with my mother's (Jemima) birth certificate together with a copy of the marriage certificate of Robert Russell and Jane Scott Jack (if I can't come up with it another way).
All your researching is most appreciated.
Biddydi
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Hi Dianne
I am excited for you about to start your great discoveries of your mother's family! Scotlands People is the official site for BMDs which works in conjunction with the General Records Office of Scotland, so your transactions on the site are secure.
I've got to pop out now but I can post some census information for Jane Jack and Robert Russell with their respective families later, or someone else may do so in the meantime :)
Monica
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Biddydi, I sent you a pm offering to send the marriage certificate but I need you to reply to it with your email address
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I think sometimes being new to RootsChat, PMs can be confusing (I remember when I first got one and didn't know what to do with the box that popped up :P).
Dianne, you will get a notification in a message box in the centre of the page when someone sends you a personal message. If you click on it, it will take you through the PM service which works very much like all email services with an in/out box.
To see your message box, go to the top of the page and you will see:
Welcome back, Biddydi , you have XX messages, X are new.
If you click on this link, it will take you through to the PM section where you can see all your messages. You can reply to individual messages from there.
To send someone a PM, just click on the small green scroll under someone's name and it will take you also to the PM service.
PMs are a good way to exchange personal info including personal emails :)
Monica
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Right, some family info on the Russells and Jacks...
Firstly on the Russells. I think Robert Russell is likely to have been the first born to Elizabeth Cowan and James Russell. There is a member submitted entry for their marriage on IGI on 8 October 1854 in Bothwell. Their childrens births showing on IGI and will also be on Scotlands People statutory birth registers. All showing as born in Bothwell except for James and Charles:
1. Robert 28 Nov. 1855
2. John 29 April 1857...likely died young and name re-used
3. James 19 June 1859 Kilsyth, Stirling
4. Charles 16 March 1861 Kilsyth, Stirling
5. Margaret 15 Feb. 1863
6. William 16 Dec. 1864
7. Jeanie 28 March 1867
8. Agnes 19 March 1869
9. Elizabeth 26 Jan. 1871
10. John 17 March 1873
Some censuses for the family. Firstly, 1861:
James Russel 33, iron miner b. Bothwell
Elizabeth Russel 27 b. Bothwell
Robert Russel 6
John Russel 4
James Russel 2
Charles Russel 1 Month
Address: Low Banton, Kilsyth Stirlingshire
1871:
James Russell 44, coal miner b. Newarthill
Elizabeth Russell 36 b. Newarthill
Robert Russell 15 coal miner b. Newarthill
James Russell 11
Charles Russell 10
Margaret Russell 8
Janet Russell 4
William Russell 8
Agnes Russell 2
Elizabeth Russell 2 Months
Address: ?? North Road, Holytown, Bothwell Lanarkshire
1881:
James Russell 54, coal miner
Robert Russell 26, coal miner
James Russell 22, coal miner
Charles Russell 20, coal miner
Margret Russell 18
William Russell 16, coal miner
Jeanie Russell 14
Agnes Russell 12
Elizabeth Russell 10
John Russell 8
Address: Main Street, Holytown, Bothwell Lanarkshire
I haven't got access to the original census images (Scotlands People is the only source for these) and the transcript I am looking at does not show marital status, but I am wondering whether the 1881 census would show James Snr as a widower. Possible death for an Elizabeth Cowan/Russell in 1876 b. 1834 in Lanarkshire.
Monica
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James Jack and Jane Craig married on the first year of official registration in Scotland, in 1855. Marriage date is showing as 8 June 1855 in Bothwell on IGI, an image of this will be available on SP. As with Robert Russell, Jane Scott Jack looks to be the eldest born. Children showing to them on IGI, all in Bothwell, Lanarkshire:
1. Jane SCOTT JACK 26 SEP 1856
2. William JACK 19 NOV 1858
3. Helen THOMSON JACK 17 OCT 1860
4. Robert CRAIG JACK 2 MAR 1863
5. James HILL JACK 9 MAY 1865
6. Robert CRAIG JACK 11 OCT 1867
7. Mary HILL JACK13 SEP 1869
8. Martha CRAIG JACK 30 NOV 1871
9. George THOMSON JACK 21 JAN 1874
For the censuses, firstly 1861. Not sure about the ages for parents, seem mightly young to have married at around 15 going these ages:
James Jack 20, coal miner b. Bothwell
Jean Jack 21 b. Carnwath, Lanarkshire
Jean Jack 5
Helen Jack 6 Months
Address: Hamilton Rd, Holytown, Bothwell Lanarkshire
1871:
James Jack 37, coal miner
Jane Jack 32
John Jack 10
James Jack 5
Robert Jack 3
Mary Jack 1
Address: Manse, Holytown, Bothwell Lanarkshire
For 1881 there is this entry:
James Jack 47 coal miner b. Newarthill
Jane Jack 43 b. Carnwarth
James H Jack 15 coal miner
Robert C Jack 13 coal miner
Mary H Jack 11
George T Jack 7
Elisabeth C Jack 5
William Jack 2
Jane Scott Finlay 4, granddaughter b. Newarthill
Address: Main Street, Holytown, Bothwell Lanarkshire
Monica
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Dianne, you have information overload here!
Just as background to help you get your bearings for now, have a look at these two links:
Counties of Scotland - www.scotlandsfamily.com/county-map.htm
Parishes within Lanarkshire - www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-lanark.htm
Monica
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There is a headstone in Holytown churchyard erected by Elizabeth Craig Jack but it needs cleaned to be able to read the rest of it.
LFHS are presently photographing and transcribing the headstones in the churchyard and cemetery.
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Dianne,
Just in case your not familiar with the term LFHS is the Lanarkshire Family History Society.
http://www.lanarkshirefhs.org.uk/
The publication of the Holytown Parish Church MI's is still in the process of being checked before publishing however if you email them - research-lanarkshirefhs[at]hotmail.co.uk (replace [at] with @) I'm sure they will help you out.
You can also follow them on facebook -
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lanarkshire-Family-History-Society/118076764933738
Gerry
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Hello one and all:
Pretty sure I have tracked down my mom's dad. His name is ANDREW HORN.
He was 21 years of age when mom was born in 1915 in Newarthill and the only one of child bearing years at that time.
His home was listed as Newarthill, Lanarkshire.
I cannot access the 1911 census as yet. Can someone tell me who he was living with in Newarthill in the 1911 census together with his address? His mom, dad and any siblings?
Also on the 1901 census.
Dianne
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Dianne the 1911 census is only available on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
The 1901 census has no entries for Newarthill but there is this entry
James Horn 40
Agnes Horn 36
Alexander Horn 18
John Horn 16
James Horn 13
Allan Horn 8
Andrew Horn 3
Address: 279 Caledonian Rd
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1911 census index has a possible
1911 HORN ANDREW Male aged 21 at HOLYTOWN /LANARK
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Hello Sancti:
That could possibly be him. Although he would have then been 25 when mom was born in 1915 not 21 as shown on her BC.
The 2 Andrew Horns on the 1901 census would have been 17 when mom was born.
I will try and get the printout for the 1911 census for my 21 year old in Holytown/Lanark. Quite possibly he could have lied about his age at the time of the birth.
I think this is going to be a real puzzle for sure.
???
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You don't happen to know any details about this Jane Craig do you? I have a relation, David Craig who was married and lived in the Bothwell parish from when he was married in 1858, to sometime in the 1870s. He was originally from Ireland. His mother-in-law Mary (nee McCulloch) Major died in Jack's Land in 1889 and his sister-in-law Margaret Major married into the Jack family in 1863.
I found this thread by Googling for Jack's Land. Just wondering if the Craig was any connection, as David hasn't got any family that I can find. I just know his parents from his marriage and death certificates.
Iain
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I believe Jane Craig was my great great grandmother.
I do not have her brothers and sisters info but here is what I have of her marriage in my line.
James Jack and Jane Craig married on the first year of official registration in Scotland, in 1855. Marriage date is showing as 8 June 1855 in Bothwell on IGI, an image of this will be available on SP. As with Robert Russell, Jane Scott Jack looks to be the eldest born. Children showing to them on IGI, all in Bothwell, Lanarkshire:
1. Jane SCOTT JACK 26 SEP 1856
2. William JACK 19 NOV 1858
3. Helen THOMSON JACK 17 OCT 1860
4. Robert CRAIG JACK 2 MAR 1863
5. James HILL JACK 9 MAY 1865
6. Robert CRAIG JACK 11 OCT 1867
7. Mary HILL JACK13 SEP 1869
8. Martha CRAIG JACK 30 NOV 1871
9. George THOMSON JACK 21 JAN 1874
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I managed to work out that James Jack was the brother of Thomas Jack, who married my relation Margaret Major. The Craig connection isn't there though, I've discovered on ancestry.com that those Craigs came from Ayrshire, not Ireland where mine are from, so that blows my theory out of the water. Never mind! :)
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Looking for some help in finding information on George Thomson Jack death (mentioned in this thread). I am helping a friend with their family tree.
I have his death certificate from SP on 5th February 1917 from accidental injuries at Glencleland Colliery. I can't find any other information about the accident. I would really appreciate any help at all.
I have also downloaded George's brother's death certificate from SP in 1913. Death at same colliery. Extract from Scottish mining site.
15 & 16 July 1913
Fatal Colliery Accidents - A fatal accident occurred yesterday at Gateside colliery, Cambuslang, which is owned by the Flemington Coal Company (Limited.) A miner named James Morton (40). 56 Park Street, Cambuslang, was engaged working with another miner at a ten-ton coal-cutting machine when he was caught in the machine, which is driven by electric current, and was killed. While James Hill Jack was at work in Messrs Kerr & Mitchell's Glencleland colliery a dislodged piece of rock fell upon him from the roof. He was removed to the pit bank, where he died. [Scotsman 18 July 1913]
NB James Hill Jacks death was registered as due to heart failure following accident
http://scottishmining.co.uk/341.html
Thanks so much
Murphyz
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Jane Scott Jack (Jean, or Jeanie) was born 26th September 1856. (she was the elder sister of my great-great-grandmother Helen Thomson Jack). Jane, a spinster, aged 36, married Robert Russell, a coal miner, a widower, aged 36, on 2nd September 1892 at Newarthill. Robert already had a son, James.
Jane Craig Russell (Jeannie) was born on 14th October 1895 at Jack’s Land, Newarthill.
Jane Craig Russell had a daughter, Jemima Russell, born on 16th June 1915 at White Gates, Carfin. Jemima was registered as illegitimate, but the child’s father was declared by warrant to be Andrew Horn, miner, Yuille’s Land, Main Street, Newarthill.