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General => Technical Help => Topic started by: Kevin, now in Chester on Friday 25 March 11 20:48 GMT (UK)

Title: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Kevin, now in Chester on Friday 25 March 11 20:48 GMT (UK)
Grateful for advice on saving records from commercial websites to my hard drive.

I save as jpeg files and reopen through MS Picture Manager, but they lose their sharpness/clarity when viewing later, especially when they are expanded. Eventually I had hoped to print up to A3.

This must be a common problem, so apologies if it has been asked (often) before.

Kevin in Vienna
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: deebel on Friday 25 March 11 21:41 GMT (UK)
Someone once told me that jpeg files lose info every time they are saved, however I am not an expert.
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: downside on Saturday 26 March 11 00:08 GMT (UK)
Can you check what size you image files are. 

They should be approximately 500-690kb each if they are .jpg.

I have various files that are .jpg + .tif + .pdf and they all seem to be sharp.
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Kevin, now in Chester on Saturday 26 March 11 05:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your responses.

The .jpg files range from 84KB up to 1254KB, but mostly between 100 to 200KB, even though I have used the same method of saving each census record.  Is this size something that I can adjust?

I notice that when I enlarge within the commercial website, the document automatically refocuses to give a sharper/clearer image, but this doesn't happen when I enlarge within MS Picture Manager.

Thanks again for your advice.

Kevin in Vienna
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: downside on Saturday 26 March 11 08:01 GMT (UK)
Are you having problems with all images or just the smaller ones i.e. 100-200kb?
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Kevin, now in Chester on Saturday 26 March 11 10:42 GMT (UK)
Same problem for all files. 

When I first save the docs, I do use the Auto Correct facility in MS Office Picture Manager before saving, which "improves" the initial image, but perhaps this has an impact on the quality of expanded images.   

Thank you for taking the time to consider this issue.

Kevin in Vienna
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 26 March 11 12:34 GMT (UK)
Website images tend to be scanned at 72 dpi as a default.You can't improve on this from your end.The only way to improve the quality is to get a better scan at 300 dpi.
Ancestry or FindMyPast images are scanned at a higher resolution & there shouldn't be a problem with these but you don't say where you are getting yours from.


jim
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Koromo on Saturday 26 March 11 12:58 GMT (UK)

Hi Kevin

I don't know which commercial websites you are referring to, but on Ancestry I enlarge the census image as big as it will go using their drop-down menu which goes up to 200%.  When the image has fully loaded (and in sharp focus) then I'll right-click and save it to my computer.  Typically the image size is about 95x80cm at 72dpi with a file size of 500-700 KB.

(On Ancestry I use the basic/standard viewer because they've never made a Mac-compatible advanced viewer.)

:)
Koromo
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: RJ_Paton on Saturday 26 March 11 13:05 GMT (UK)
Same problem for all files. 

When I first save the docs, I do use the Auto Correct facility in MS Office Picture Manager before saving, which "improves" the initial image, but perhaps this has an impact on the quality of expanded images.   

Thank you for taking the time to consider this issue.

Kevin in Vienna

Simply viewing a jpg image and then closing the viewer or copying the image to your machine has no effect on the image quality BUT what you are describing here does. Any alteration to the image and then saving it causes the resultant image to be saved at the settings used on your image program and causes an overall degradation of the original image quality.

Check the image settings on your own machine to see what compression percentage the program is using to create the "new" jpg.
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Kevin, now in Chester on Saturday 26 March 11 13:46 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your responses.

I am saving from both Ancestry and FindMyPast.

I shall adjust the image settings on my machine and try expanding the image before saving.

Many thanks for your advice.

Kevin in Vienna
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: mickmack1942 on Monday 23 May 11 13:34 BST (UK)
Hi Kevin I use a tool called screen hunter 5.1 free, once installed open it  , L/click standby, or capture now, capture now open high light  rectangular area and draw a box round the item you want with your mouse and soon as you stop the mouse it saves a window, and you can place it on your desk top is as clear as the item you were looking at, I use it a lot...mick 
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Kevin, now in Chester on Monday 23 May 11 17:33 BST (UK)
Thank you for this.  I shall try this too.

I think the problem was using the autocorrect facility in MS Office Picture Manager.

Life has become much clearer since I started viewing the images I saved from Ancestry/FTM and Findmypast using Picasa, although I may have to re-save those I had already auto-corrected.

Best wishes from Vienna

Kevin
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: mickmack1942 on Monday 23 May 11 18:42 BST (UK)
Hi again, the screen hunter is so easy to use, you can take picture after picture untill you get what you want, once on your d.top the world is your oyster, and what I like is its FREE............mick
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Sherwood on Friday 27 May 11 00:10 BST (UK)
Just to pick upon the "jpg losing quality every time you save it".  The thing here is that jpg is a "lossy" compression.  This means that it compromises quality to reduce size.  Some image editing programmes allow you to choose the compression ratio before saving (higher ratio means smaller file but lower quality).  Opening, viewing and closing doesn't affect the image.  However, opening, editing then saving does re-compress.  This is why you shouldn't use jpg as a format for saving intermediate versions when restoring photos, etc.

I concur that it's best to maximise the source commercial image before saving (e.g. view at 200%).  My saved census images range from around 500k to 1200k each.

sherwood.
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 27 May 11 08:23 BST (UK)
Hi

A...y enhanced viewer downloads the "maximum" size image and displays that size (200%), or less, dependant upon your display setting.
It does not (re-)download a different (sized/properties) copy for different display settings.
(A...y does not hold separate/different copies of the same image)

You can prove this by saving the same image at 200%, 100% and 25%
(not forgetting to save using different file names   ;D   ).
You will find that each copy of the image is exactly the same and has the same properties and same file size as the other(s).


Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: Koromo on Friday 27 May 11 11:56 BST (UK)


You can prove this by saving the same image at 200%, 100% and 25% ...

You will find that each copy of the image is exactly the same and has the same properties and same file size as the other(s).



The advanced viewer may handle things differently, but with the basic viewer differently-sized images are saved for each zoom level:

50% = 840 x 528 pixels
100% = 1680 x 1056 px
150% = 2520 x 1584 px
200% = 3360 x 2112 px

K.
Title: Re: Saving census records to my hard drive
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 27 May 11 14:03 BST (UK)
Hi (again)

Thanks Koromo, that prompted me to run this test on the 1901 census same person........

W7=machine running Windows7, Firefox
XP=machine running WindowsXP, Firefox

W7=standardviewer 200% 604kb 3076x2076   96dpi bitdepth=8
W7=standardviewer 100% 230kb 1538x1038   96dpi bitdepth=8
W7=standardviewer  50%    83kb  769x519     96dpi bitdepth=8
XP=enhancedviewer 200% 555kb 3076x2076 150dpi bitdepth=24
XP=enhancedviewer 100% 555kb 3076x2076 150dpi bitdepth=24
XP=enhancedviewer   50% 555kb 3076x2076 150dpi bitdepth=24

all output saved as .jpg

Remind me not to use the W7 machine to download  ::)

Cheers
Ray