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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: odbsmith on Thursday 24 March 11 21:28 GMT (UK)
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Thomas Edmund Hudman b.1852 Middlesex, married Ada Poole Pile from Dublin in 1883 in London. They lived in Dublin and had a daughter Dorothy March Hudman b 1885. Thomas was an architect. Does Anyone Know any thing of them, in particular what happened to Dorothy.
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There's very few Hudman references included in the BMD index and just one for a Dorothy - a marriage in 1903 :
Name: Dorothy March Hudman
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1903
Volume : 2 / page number: 533
There's also possible deaths for Thomas in 1938, and Ada in 1942.
See :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Shane
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I believe Dorothy married a Lewis Whyte - he has the same index references :
Name: Lewis Whyte
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1903
Volume : 2 / Page : 533
Here's the Dorothy, Lewis and family on the 1911 census - Whyte household - Balbriggan (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Balbriggan_Urban__Part_of/Balbriggan_Urban/1126/) (North Co. Dublin)
Shane
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Thomas is listed in Thom's directory of 1914 and 1927 at 2 Kenilworth Road, Rathgar, South Dublin. Unfortunately there's no occupation or other details given.
Ada is listed on the 1939 Dublin city electoral register at the same address with a Rose Roe and an Emily E. Howlin - see : http://www.dublinheritage.ie/electoral/index.php
Shane
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There's a marriage for a Thomas Edmund Hudman in 1884 in Dublin - could they have married again when they moved here ....maybe a later church marriage ?
Name: Thomas Edmund Hudman
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1884
Volume : 4 / Page : 579
There's also a marginal cross match to an Ada.. but with a different volume number - this should be the same for a possible marriage, but it seems quite a coincidence to find such a close match for the two full names you mentioned :
Name: Ada Poole Pile
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1884
Volume: 2 / Page number: 579
Shane
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Thanks for your help Shane ,that will really give me something to work with.
Regards Debbie
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Name: Thomas Edmund Hudman
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1884
Volume : 4 / Page : 579
From about 1878 - all the Dublin Registrations should be in Volume 2 only ...
I asked the people in the GRO once, and they said that there are odd cases where the volume was mistranscribed when the indexes were originally set up. So go by volume=2 is my suggestion
eadaoin
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From about 1878 - all the Dublin Registrations should be in Volume 2 only ...
I asked the people in the GRO once, and they said that there are odd cases where the volume was mistranscribed when the indexes were originally set up. So go by volume=2 is my suggestion
eadaoin
thanks for that .... useful to know..
Shane
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Dorothy March Whyte (nee HUDMAN) was my wife's great grandmother. She died on 23 Feb 1943 in Raheny, Dublin. She is buried, alpmg with her husband Lewis and son Alan in Balbriggan Cemetery in a plot alongside her father Thomas and mother Ada HUDMAN. Dorothy moved to Raheny from George's Hill Balbriggan following the death of Lewis in 1938. Her house in Raheny, 'Keady', Howth Road still exists, but not in family now.
Lewis Whyte and his father William were the MDs of Smyth & Co (Smyco) major hosiery manufacturers in Balbriggan (see Babriggan.net for more information on company and also a picture of Lewis & Doroyhy celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary)
Thomas Edmund Hudman was an architect and published a number of articles in specialist journals about architecture and was involved in a number of major Dublin projects, However, he went to work for Smyth & Co as Company Secretary (I believe) until his death.
Ada his wife is the sister of Sir Thomas C Devereux PILE - 1st Baron Kenilworth. Thomas Pile was an auctioneer, wholesale fish and game salesman and an ice merchant. .He was elected to Dublin City Council in 1887, was High Sheriff in 1898 and became Lord Mayor of Dublin on 23 February 1900. Queen Victoria visited Dublin in April 1900 and was welcome by Pile as Lord Mayor. Since it was customary for the monarch to honour Dublin's first citizen during royal visits, Pile was granted a baronetcy to mark the event.
I have a little more information if you need it. I would be interested in also receiving any information you find, particularly on the Whyte line.
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Hi Cjraf, Thank you for your info. I did know a little abt Thomas Edmund Hudman and abt Sir Thomas Pile and the visit of Queen Victoria (if my spelling goes to pot blame the cat) I know abt Sir Frederick Pile and the Battle of Britain Class engine named after him which is to be rebuilt only a few miles away from me in Hampshire.
But thanks "loads" for the new info. yes if you have more info i would be pleased to receive it, then if i find anything new i will inform you. I'm covering my whole family and am not concentrating on one branch -- I find going with the flow easier with my limited time. But I have found Rootschat extremely useful with the little "niggles" that occur.
Regards Debbie
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Debbie, apologies for delay in replying - busy weekend.
Attached gives extracts of HUDMAN census entries I have found - presume you have these? Also has Thomas' biography and newspaper cutting for his funeral.
I also have originals of census entries and some photographs as listed below, but too big to send on rootschat, so would need an email address.
Photograph of HUDMAN & WHYTE graves at BALBRIGGAN.
Photograph of house in RAHENY where Dorothy lived & died following death of husband Lewis.
Photograph of Altar cloth embroidered and presented by Dorothy to ST George Church, BALNRIGGAN in memory of her son Alan killed in a car crash on Christmas Eve 1936.
I also have some information on the WHYTEs, but still researching this - due to lack of available Irish records on-line we can only do this now in person during our visits to Dublin to see our daughter and grandson, so may take some time.
Presume you have details of Dorothy & Lewis' children? Assume you know Dorothy's 2nd son Morris used the name Patrick WHYTE for his acting career (not Patrick Hyde WHYTE, so do not be confused if you google name).
How do you tie into HUDMAN family?
Only started this research a year ago following birth of our first grandchild, so have a long way to go to resolve all the many branches of family. Also taking a broad-brush approach to start with.
Colin
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Hi colin Thanks for that, dont apologise for delay- I know what you mean - sometimes there aren't enough hours in the day!!
I have some of that info but not all.
I will send you my email address.
I didnt know Morris was an actor but he was in the army for some time and spent time in India.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/34255/pages/980
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33251/pages/1255
http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000293483
My maiden name was Hudman.
I believe, if I havent muddled it up, that Dorothy's 3x ggfather was my 4x ggfather
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Debbie,
Thanks for messages. I suspect it was Morris's India experience that got him involved initially with the movies - think he was a consultant on a Indian frontier type movie/series. Do not think he ever made it 'big-time' in acting, but had lots of 'bit' parts including in the classic series Peyton Place.
Understand there is some correspondence in the Irish Library Archives from his father Lewis about Morris's application for the Army. I will try to get a look at these if I have time when we next visit Dublin.
Glad you had his middle name as Hudman - I now only have to find out how exactly the middle names of his 2 brothers - Devereux Hatton and Alan Hayes - fit into the Whyte line. Hatton is probably from the Smyth - Hatton connection that set up Smyth & Co in Balbriggan - just need to prove it. Hayes has me at a total loss for moment, but will keep searching.
If you need anything else then you have my email address.
Colin
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Hi Colin/Debbie
I have just begun researching your ancestor Lewis Whyte, in relation to the history of a local club in Balbriggan. I am fascinated by the story of Lewis Whyte. He lived very close to where I now live, and was a founding member and patron of Balbriggan RFC. I would love to get in touch with either of you, if you are still online in rootschat. Best Regards, Caroline
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Caroline,
I am still researching the WHYTEs and the family association with Smyth & Co Balbriggan. Have probably got some more information since last posts, so let me know what you may want. Information on Smyco is a little vague still, but do have some bits and pieces. Lewis was involved in several Balbriggan clubs I believe, including the RFC and Golf Club, so would be most interested in anything you may find. Mr Cashell was the last manager of the company when it closed. I have not heard from his son Robert in a couple of years now, but Mr Cashell senior and his wife were alive and living in Balbriggan last time we were in contact.
Colin
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Hudman and Whyte Wills on here search Archives
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/wills-testamentary-records/
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Hi Colin,
Thanks so much for your reply. We know Robert very well; as he is still actively involved in the rugby club. Unfortunately, his father passed away in the last year or so. His mother is still alive.
As I said in my previous message, Lewis Whyte was a founding member of Balbriggan RFC. He may have been the first President of the club. I don't think that he was involved in the Balbriggan Golf Club, as I believe that was established in the mid 1940's. I did find something about him being associated with a Hurling Club/team in the town. I also found an old newspaper article about Lewis producing a play called The Wreckers, with the Smyco Players, to raise money for a school fund. It says in the article that Lewis and his son Alan painted the entire set, and Alan did all the special effects for the play.
Is your family descended from Alan or Patrick? Do you have any photos of Lewis?
Again, thanks for getting in touch. Any further information that I come across, I'll send on to you. Or if you have any information/stories, I would be delighted to learn more.
Kind Regards, and Happy Christmas,
Caroline
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Caroline,
I did fear worst with regard to Robert's father, but was unsure. We met him only the once and he was most helpful and took us to see the embroidery in St Georges church undertaken by Dorothy ( Lewis's wife) in memory of her son Alan. My wife Angela is descended from Lewis and Dorothy's eldest son Devereux. He married Mary McInerney of Balbriggan and their eldest child Ellen Philomena is my wife's mother (now deceased). Sadly the marriage resulted in Devereux and Mary leaving Balbriggan for good, although it had been the intention for Devereux to take over from Lewis running Smyco. Patrick (correctly Morris, the second son) was never really involved in the company and Alan died young. I will recheck the golf comment as I thought I found a newspaper article about it. They were indeed heavily into amateur dramatics as well as other local events.
I will get back to you after Christmas (probably New Year) with more information and some pictures. I will need to look into the PM system on roots chat for doing this as direct email may be better. Best wishes for Christmas.
Colin
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Colin,
That is all very interesting. I thought that Devereaux was Alan. You are right, email would be better. I think I needed to send 3 messages through rootschat before it will allow me to private message you. So this is the third message!
Happy Christmas
Caroline
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Hello,
I don't know if you are both still researching this but I may be able to be of some help. My given name is Tia Whyte, I am the granddaughter of Thomas Edmund Lewis Whyte, I have a lot of information about the Whyte family, my grandmother has a big leather suitcase full of photos, newspaper cuttings and a lot of other things from Smyth & Co and about the family in general. I have been told about Alan's death and my grandfather even got asked to take over the factory I do believe, he had the Lewis Whyte family gold watch and also the family silver with the crest on, I now have the silver. Any information you need to know my grandmother will know, sadly my grandfather passed away this year but I know they were very close to Patrick Whyte. My Grandfather has brothers who are alive who I have contact with too which will know all about Smyth & Co. I have heard many stories about the factory and Balbriggan. Let me know if I can be of help :)
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Hi Tia,
I was delighted to see your message this morning. Yes both of us are still carrying out research, and have been in contact with each other quite a bit. We would be most grateful for any information that you may have.
Best Wishes
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No problems :) what would you like to know in particular? Also I will put you in touch with my auntie Melanie Whyte, she has the leather suitcase with all the photos and information, she did all the research and went to Ireland and traced it all back so she will know everything, I may even be able to put you in touch with my grandmother, who knows everything there is to know :)
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Hi, my name is Melanie Whyte daughter of Thomas Edmund Lewis Whyte son of Devereux Whyte of Balbriggan, Ireland. Who was the son of Lewis Whyte and Dorothey Hudman. After reading your messages, I do believe we are related, I am so happy to find long lost relatives. :)
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Hi Mary7
I've sent you a message.
Regards
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I am searching for the children of Deveraux Whyte and Mary(McInerney) Whyte. I have a copy of their marriage.
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Hi Mary7
I believe you father is my cousin Bernadette's half brother. My cousin was adopted in 1944. Her mum was Mary McInerney Whyte widow of Deveraux. On her birth certificate only her mums name no father. My Aunt who lived in Scotland adopted her. My cousin died 2 years ago with cancer but her 2 daughters who didn't know their mum was adopted would dearly love to find some family of their mum. Hope you can help thanks.
Christine
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Mary7
I tried to pm you but your box is full
Christine
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I am Patrick Morris Hudman Whyte's granddaughter by way of marriage and adoption. He was married to my grandmother, and he 'adopted' my dad Stefan Whyte when they married. My dad attended boarding school in Ireland in the 60's; I have photos of them together as a family. He also appeared in one of Patrick's movies as an extra, "The Hideous Sun Demon."
My grandmother Arline Woodard Whyte wrote a book based on Balbriggan, The Witch of Balbriggan.
Unfortunately, my father passed away in 1983, when I was 9; and grandpa passed the following year. I remember sending him a letter before he passed, but I was only 9; and I don't believe I received a response, let alone recall what I even wrote to him.
Any information I appreciate and love to have and hear about.
Thank you so much,
Candida Lynn Whyte
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Welcome to RootsChat, BBW :)
Some links for the children of Dorothy March (Hudman) Whyte-
Devereux Hatton Whyte born 1904
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01r7g/
Morris Hudman Whyte born 1907. Mother's MN transcribed as Henderson.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01710/1677615.pdf
Alan Hayes Whyte born 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01493/1607020.pdf
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Candida,
Thank you for your message. I was aware of your father Stefan and Patrick's wife Arline, albeit without much detail, so hope you can fill me in on missing information in due course.
My wife Angela is Patrick's grand niece, her grandfather being Devereux Whyte, Patricks elder brother.
I do have a considerable amount of information on the Whyte family back to the end of the 18th century, regrettably far too much to post on rootschat. I suggest that you send me a contact email to and I can try and answer some of your questions. Colin
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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I am the Grandson of Devereux Hatton Whyte.
My Father, Thomas Edmund Lewis Whyte, I was named after my Great Uncle,
Alan Edmund Hayes Whyte.
If any family members in Ireland or beyond want to get in touch please do i would love to play catch up and share some memories together.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am the Grandson of Devereux Hatton Whyte.
Whyte family in 1911 census
House 372 in Balbriggan Urban (Balbriggan Urban, Part of, Dublin)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Balbriggan_Urban__Part_of/Balbriggan_Urban/1126/ (H mistranscribed as N for Devereux)
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I am just now seeing that these posts from both myself and my sister (Caroline) have so many replies; and I am catching up as I can...Appreciate all of you who have responded and reached out!
I would love to hear and learn about as much as I can about the family and the man who's name we have been given to carry on, by way of our dad Stefan.
Candida Whyte
I am the Grandson of Devereux Hatton Whyte.
My Father, Thomas Edmund Lewis Whyte, I was named after my Great Uncle,
Alan Edmund Hayes Whyte.
If any family members in Ireland or beyond want to get in touch please do i would love to play catch up and share some memories together.
Moderator comment: personal mobile number removed in accordance with RootsChat general guidance and practice. Please use the personal message system to share such information. Thanks