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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: balmae on Tuesday 07 September 10 15:48 BST (UK)

Title: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Tuesday 07 September 10 15:48 BST (UK)
Great grandfather was in RIC - Head Constable Clones 1859 and Sligo 1894. Would like to see records to establish further details. What do I need to go to Kew to view Microfilm? Any help appreciated
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: kate0723 on Sunday 12 September 10 14:31 BST (UK)
Have you tried contacting the guarda museum? There's an email address on their website for RIC genealogical queries.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~garda/museum.html
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: speedwobble on Sunday 12 September 10 20:31 BST (UK)
Just a note.  Following a visit to the Police Museum at the PSNI Headquarters in Belfast the curator explained that RIC ranks did not correspond with what we have now.  I.E. a chief or head constable was not a high ranking officer but literally what the name says and just below a sergeant.

Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Monday 13 September 10 09:24 BST (UK)
Thank you for the two last posts. All info. is helpful:)
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: eadaoin on Monday 13 September 10 17:49 BST (UK)
you need his RIC number.
Kew should have the indexes, as National Archive Dublin has.

You may find 3 or 4 "Joe Soap" in the list, and you need to look at their details to see which one served in Clones and Sligo at the correct time.


eadaoin
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Tuesday 14 September 10 09:08 BST (UK)
Thk you for advice so will arrange a visit to Kew.
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: kate0723 on Tuesday 14 September 10 19:39 BST (UK)
I'd check with the museum first before searching for his RIC number. Name, date of birth, residence and parents names may well be sufficient, they were at least for me. No harm in trying anyway!!
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Tuesday 14 September 10 20:15 BST (UK)
Thank u Kate. I have just emailed J Herlihy via the museum to see what info. he might have.
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: speedwobble on Wednesday 15 September 10 13:42 BST (UK)
If you give me his name balmae I'll have a look for you.

Regards
John
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Wednesday 15 September 10 17:05 BST (UK)
Speedwobble
His name is John Irvine married to Anne Jane Reid. First child born 1865 in Carlingford, Co Louth.
Title: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Wednesday 23 March 11 17:23 GMT (UK)
Searching for service history of John Irvine - Head Constable RIC on daughters birth certificates in 1867(Carlingford) and 1869 (Clones) and daughter's marriage certificate in 1894 (Sligo). Looked at EVERY Irvine listed in Herlihy at TNA Kew but could not find him. Any ideas where to go from here please?
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 23 March 11 17:54 GMT (UK)
See also-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,481275.msg3399886.html
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 23 March 11 18:07 GMT (UK)
Searching for service history of John Irvine - Head Constable RIC on daughters birth certificates in 1867(Carlingford) and 1869 (Clones) and daughter's marriage certificate in 1894 (Sligo). Looked at EVERY Irvine listed in Herlihy at TNA Kew but could not find him. Any ideas where to go from here please?

Were you able to confidently rule out each of the John Irvines you did find ?

A couple of points about the 1894 marriage reference - the addresses given on the certs are those of the bride and groom, and may not be that of their families, also unless the father of the bride is a witness there's no guarantee he was alive at the time (certs dont always specifically state this).


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Thursday 24 March 11 15:36 GMT (UK)
I think I can be sure as I have been to TNA twice! I even went thro all Irvines in case he was registered under another first name. Though the birth records are so clear that he was John Irvine I am contemplating a third visit to go thro 'Irwin' as a shot in the dark!
Thanks for the comment on the address as I assumed the bride was living at home at the time. The father was not a witness as, curiously, the wedding took place in Dublin.
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 17:44 GMT (UK)
found a mention of John in Slater's directory of 1870 in Clones town :

  5 constabulary stations listed including one in the town at
  Diamond street with William B. Kelly sub-inspector
  and John Irvine head constable

.....
 Looked at EVERY Irvine listed in Herlihy at TNA Kew but could not find him.
 .....

just wonder if it might be worthwhile using the original RIC indexes on the films, rather than just the details in Herlihy's book in case there are any differences..


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 17:58 GMT (UK)
dont know what it means, or if it's just a slip of the pen - but John's occupation on his daughter's marriage cert looks like 'Head Constable R.T.C.'...

 Marriage of George Johnston & Edith Olivia Irvine - 3 Jan 1894 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/6e966e0931909)
 Dublin City, CofI Parish of St. Stephen



Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: eadaoin on Thursday 24 March 11 18:05 GMT (UK)
dont know what it means, or if it's just a slip of the pen - but John's occupation on his daughter's marriage cert looks like 'Head Constable R.T.C.'...

I'd say it's bound to be Head Constable R.I.C.

eadaoin
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Thursday 24 March 11 18:39 GMT (UK)
Thats wonderful news, Shane. Can I access Slaters via Ancestry or an Irish web site? Are the original RIC Indexes not what I was searching on microfilm at Kew?
It does indeed look like RTC on the cert but the birth details also say RIC so must be a slip of the pen
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 18:44 GMT (UK)
I believe Slaters 1870 is available on Origins Network.

Thats wonderful news, Shane. Can I access Slaters via Ancestry or an Irish web site? Are the original RIC Indexes not what I was searching on microfilm at Kew?
....

That's the ones I was thinking of... Herlihy's details are published in a separate book. I believe the microfilms were created by LDS and are of the original records.


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Thursday 24 March 11 19:00 GMT (UK)
I shall follow up Slaters now, thank u.
I had to first use Herlihy to get the service/warrant number then use that to find the film reference to locate the service record.  :)
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 19:03 GMT (UK)
The details I mentioned above are all that Slater's includes on John. I got a chance to check an 1881 edition and he's not listed in Clones - but only sub-inspectors are listed in that edition, not head constables.

Slater's was published in 1846, 1856, 1870, 1881 and 1894 (1856 is quite rare)


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 19:06 GMT (UK)
...
I had to first use Herlihy to get the service/warrant number then use that to find the film reference to locate the service record. 
....

I dont have RIC ancestors but I believe the records and films have their own index system, possibly on a separate film. So I think you should be able to use that without having to check Herliy's book.


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 24 March 11 19:10 GMT (UK)
There's list of the films on the Dublin City Library website, I think these are the same set as TNA have.

  Royal Irish Constabulary Records 1816 - 1922 (http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandCulture/libraries/Heritage%20and%20History/Family%20History/Pages/royal_irish_constabulary_records.aspx)

See the index mentioned on reel 852096, plus the various county returns..


Shane
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: Jack2227 on Friday 25 March 11 17:15 GMT (UK)
Jim Herlihy's book, "Royal Irish Constabulary Officers"
1816-1922

Does not feature any Irvine surname.

Jack
Title: Re: Royal Irish Constabulary
Post by: balmae on Friday 25 March 11 22:11 GMT (UK)
Yes, I understand that the title of Head Constable had a different connotation in the early days of the RIC. Thanks for your help in looking it up for me, Jack.