RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: nyteowl on Wednesday 23 March 11 13:56 GMT (UK)
-
I am searching for information on John Phillips ( birth -1895) married Eliza King (birth-1912) I'm not positive on the dates though.
They had one son John Phillips died 10th July 1935. Unsure if there was any other children.
The son was married 3 times.
1st wife: Ellen Langley m 1884,
2nd wife: Beatrice Ricketts m 1901, (my great grandmother)
3rd wife: Mabel Hardcastle m 1904.
Information on John & Eliza, or any other info greatly appreciated.
nyteowl
-
Perhaps you have made an error in your request ???
The dates you have for the possible births of the parents in 1895 & 1912 don't calculate if their son was first married in 1884 :-\
You have previously stated that your John Phillips who married in 1884 was the son of John PHILLIPS and Eliza KING born on 8 Jul 1861 in Bathurst NSW and died 10 Jul 1935 in Randwick NSW.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,399809.msg3700483.html#msg3700483
-
Bit Hard to work much out??????
A John Phillips married
1;Ellen Langley in Leichhardt Sydney in 1884
2:Beatrice Ricketts in Marrickville Sydney 1901.
3:No marriage in NSW for Mable Hardcastle in 1904???
Cannot Find a Marriage anywhere in NSW for Eliza and John the parents of the above John.
A John and Beatrice Phillips had a Daughter Beatrice in 1896 in Newtown Sydney
and there is another birth to a Beatrice Phillips of a James in Woonona in 1899 no father listed??
A Little more ACCURATE information may lead down the correct path.
do you have the BMD reference to the marriage in Bathurst?
A John Phillips son of John and Eliza Phillips did die in 1935 at Randwick Sydney
There are six births to John/William John and various Eliza's in Newtown Sydney between 1882 and 1897 .
Other than that cant figure?????
Neil
-
Gees!!!!!!
It would have helped enormously to let us know his name was
NORMAN JOHN RICKETTS!!!
NOT NORMAN JOHN PHILLIPS OR AS YOU ORIGINALLY STATED JOHN PHILLIPS :o
ARGH
NEIL >:(
-
Hi ;D
A NORMAN JOHN RICKETTS MARRIED MABEL M KERR AT ASHFIELD IN SYDNEY IN !1919 (REF4420/1919)
Neil ::)
-
Hi nyteowl,
It is good we have got the right track started up now. ;D
Easy enough to muddle things a bit when you are starting out ;)
Have a look at your dates there as Merlin suggested, then perhaps try to put up the fullest possible information on you people.
Here is a link which has helped many.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368728.0.html
Sue
-
Many Thanks everyone, we have only known Norman John Phillips (my grandfather) as Phillips, have now seen a birth cert which shows only the mother's name Ricketts, & no father, yet death certificate shows the name of Phillips.
The father on DC is John Phillips
My apologies Merlin, I just re-read how I posted the "dates" the years 1895 & 1912 are year of death, (hopefully right)
The 3 marriages I listed are on the death certificate of John Phillips.
The first marriage:- REF No: 2188/1884 John Phillips m Ellen M Langley @ Leichhardt they had 5 children
Esther 1885 / William 1886 / Lousia 1889 / Mildred 1891 / Emily 1892
I am hoping someone related to one these people, may be able to help with info on John & Eliza.
2nd marrige: REF No : 6970/1901 John Phillips m Beatrice Ricketts in Marrickville (this is where my family came in )
3rd Marriage : REF No 7321/ 1904 John Phillips M Mabel Hardcastle.
Thanks Neil, I think this person was my Grandfathers Uncle "A NORMAN JOHN RICKETTS MARRIED MABEL M KERR AT ASHFIELD IN SYDNEY IN !1919 (REF4420/1919) "
Hopefully this makes a bit more sense, and we find out more about John & Eliza that started us off, as they say :-)
-
Hi, I am still a little confused on a couple of aspects.
If a father is not shown on certificate was his (IE Normans) name shown as Norman John Phillips or Ricketts? I can see that they married after his birth but was he adopted by John Phillips or just took the Phillips name?
I only say this because you may still need to find his correct name!
??? ???
-
Hi there,
I am also confused .... BUT
Are you after information about John PHILLIPS who died in 1895 and who was in the Bathurst area in the 1860's ...
If so, then the following may be of interest, and it is from Greville's directory of 1875 ..
James Otis PHILLIPS, innkeeper in George St BATHURST
I am not sure if this chap would be "yours" but there's a middle name ...
Cheers, JM
Edit to add, the 1870 NSW electoral roll for BATHURST shows same details for James Otis Phillips.. and also there's TWO chaps enrolled at Bathurst with the name John PHILLIPS, one in George St and the other in Piper St
-
So by 1878 NSW ER for Bathurst
There's only James Otis Phillips now a leaseholder at Peel St and a George Phillips, a resident of William St ...
NO sign of any others with the surname PHILLIPS on the Bathurst ER..
Cheers, JM
-
Hi Neil, the death cert shows the PHILLIPS name, but we don't know if it was ever done legally.
REF No: 30409/1958 PHILLIPS NORMAN JOHN JOHN BEATRICE MARY PENRITH
Birth Cert shows :
REF No : 1090/1894 RICKETTS NORMAN J BEATRICE SYDNEY
and Thanks Jm, I'll check that out
-
Re PHILLIPS and KING in Bathurst area circa 1860's
Bathurst sought to be made a local government area under the 1858 NSW govt's Act for Municipalities etc and a number of petitions went to the NSW Parliament. SIX petitions in particular relate to Bathurst IN 1859 and were submitted in 1859. The following names that may be of interest... (one was FOR, one was AGAINST becoming a municipality AND there are counter and counter-counter petitions too)
NSW Govt Gazettes of Tuesday 11 March 1859, #43; Tuesday 27 Sept 1859, # 196; Tuesday 25 Oct 1859, # 217; Tuesday 22 Nov 1859 # 236; Friday 25 Nov 1859 # 238; Tues 27 Dec 1859 # 266
Robert KING, George St (signed at least two or there were two men by that name) and NONE who signed were named PHILLIPS...
BUT there was a further petition in 1862 Gazette 7 March # 52
There's Martin KING, householder in Bentinck St; Henry KING, householder in Piper St; NONE who signed were named PHILLIPS ..
Cheers, JM
-
Somebody correct me quick. :'(
But I cannot find a marriage of a John Phillips to a Eliza King in NSW. Not in Bathurst or anywhere else. :P
A John Phillips Married an Eliza Bowring Bungonia, Goulburn in 1840 ??????
Neil 8)
-
I've looked TOO ... so I'm ready, standing in line behind Neil for correction please ... cannot find marriage either ...
Cheers, JM :)
-
I am not sure of where JOHN PHILLIPS lived throughout his life, however I do know he died in the Prince of Wales Hospital, 10th July 1935.
Municipality of Newton is listed as his residence on the death cert.
The parents shown on this DC are JOHN PHILLIPS (Grazier) & ELIZA KING it's these two we are searching for.
Many Thanks Everyone for your time & patience :-)
-
The mystery deepens,
What age is shown on his DC please nytowl.
A John W Phillips was born to John and Caroline Phillips in Bathurst in 1856 (Ref 3110/1856)
Neil
-
His age is shown as 74yrs, so birth year 1961 maybe ?
opps Correction 1861
and there are no dates for the parents, just names so does that mean they were both still alive in 1935 ?
btw are we allowed to post a copy of the certificate here?
-
I am not sure of where JOHN PHILLIPS lived throughout his life, however I do know he died in the Prince of Wales Hospital, 10th July 1935.
Municipality of Newton is listed as his residence on the death cert.
The parents shown on this DC are JOHN PHILLIPS (Grazier) & ELIZA KING it's these two we are searching for.
Many Thanks Everyone for your time & patience :-)
I presume it also shows his parents were deceased ... Do you have confidence in the informant for that 1935 d.c. ... was it a family member, etc, could they have got his age wrong ... Are you looking at a partial or full transcript ... and does it tell you how long he had been in the Commonwealth or is this the document that gives you his place of birth as Bathurst NSW ...
Does the info on that 1935 d.c. conflict with any of the info on any b.c. for his children, or on his m.c's etc, and if so, I would tend to place greater reliance in the info on the FIRST m.c. for this would be info he gave himself, in anticipation of being with that wife for "ever after" ...
Cheers, JM
-
Maybe she is not related BUT:
A Caroline Phillips died at Tuena near Bathurst in 1891 ref (14504/1891)
Might have to look up the papers for that one should give some relies.
Neil
-
Agh, Ta Neil, I have Grevilles 1875 for Tuena and look !
Matthew PHILLIPS, a miner and there's George KING, a farmer and William KING a farmer
Cheers, JM
-
Mmm, A first sort of connection
Bathurst + Phillips + King = Dunno.
But you get a Guernsy if you can tie them to John Phillips ;D
-
NSW ER 1870 and 1878 for seat of HARTLEY, and in police district of Hartley (electorate also covered police district of Rylstone)
John Phillips, residence ORANGE, and qualification being freehold at HARTLEY
also
Patrick Phillips, residence Hartley and qualification being freehold at Hartley...
Cheers, JM ... I am thinking freehold at Hartley would have been ideal for a grazier's property :) and have produced a good income to have a residence at Orange as well ... May I have half a Guernsey NOW please..
-
Grevilles 1875
Patrick Phillips at Hartley, he a carter :)
John Phillips at Orange, a draper in Summer St
Robert King at Orange, a bootmaker ..
Neil ... No outfitters found so far ::)
-
More Phillips.
Another John?
Ref (V18531087 39C/1853) PHILLIPS JOHN MARRIED WOODHART CAROLINE in 1853 at St James Presbyterian in Sydney in 1853. This may have been the other Caroline I posted...
(MODFIED) All of their children were born in Bathurst cept one.
Any Woodharts in the Bathurst area. JM?
Neil
-
Not any around Bathurst in that era that I can find c 1850's ..
There's some around Pt Fairy and Warnambool but that's way way down south in Vic ...
Cheers, JM
-
I have now found children from the 1st marriage, 2188/1884 PHILLIPS JOHN LANGLEY ELLEN M LEICHHARDT
But none born in Bathurst
4977/1885 PHILLIPS ESTHER E JOHN ELLEN M LEICHHARDT
14248/1886 PHILLIPS WILLIAM W JOHN ELLEN M GOULBURN
14052/1889 PHILLIPS LOUISA I JOHN ELLEN M GOULBURN
30157/1891 PHILLIPS MILDRED N JOHN ELLEN REDFERN
26708/1892 PHILLIPS EMILY J JOHN ELLEN M NEWTOWN
Does that help at all ?
-
John W Phillips b 1856 Bathurst parents: Caroline and John
Could this be the birth you are looking for?
-
Death 1897 at NEWTOWN
PHILLIPS JOHN W
Parents JOHN CAROLINE A
-
Death 1917 NEWTOWN
PHILLIPS ELIZA E
Parents: JAMES K SARAH M
Cant find any birth record though in NSW
-
Death at GOULBURN 1898
KING JAMES K
Parents: JAMES ELLEN
-
Those ones that miabar has mentioned could well be the answer to nyteowls searching. Well found miabar ...
Cheers, JM
-
Death 1891 at TUENA
PHILLIPS CAROLINE
Parents MATTHEW ELLEN
Death 1891 at BALMAIN
PHILLIPS CAROLINE A
Parnets CHARLES ELIZABETH
I 'THINK 'yours' is the one who died in Balmain because she is known as Caroline 'A"
same as whats recorded on her sons death. Caroline 'A"
Think I will stop for awhile, let you figure out if Im on the right track before I keep looking :)
-
Nyteowl, Can you answer these questions please?
Where did you get the date of birth for John PHILLIPS you quoted as 8 Jul 1861 in Bathurst NSW?
Do you have a birth certificate or a source of where you got the information from?
Also the death certificate you have for John on 10th July 1935 are you sure this is your John PHILLIPS?
Can you give me the age that was on it please?
I have found burial records for John PHILLIPS who died 10 July 1935.
-
Possibly the most important find from MIABAR ;) ;) ;)
An Eliza Phillips not born NSW or at least not recorded.
To find the right connection now.
Neil
-
The burial records for John Phillips d. 10 Jul 1935 have lead me to others showing that he was born Bathurst BUT more the year 1871-1872 if that death certificate is the right one.
-
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17178321
smh 11 July 1935
There's two funeral notices, one mentions Mabel and family of John Phillips and the other is from the Lodge ... funeral to Rookwood C of E, Lodge members to wear their Regalia.
And from OP, Mabel was third wife of John
..... John Phillips died 10th July 1935. .....
1st wife: Ellen Langley m 1884,
2nd wife: Beatrice Ricketts m 1901, (my great grandmother)
3rd wife: Mabel Hardcastle m 1904.
....
Cheers, JM
-
Great JM, matches with the information I have :D
-
Does this help Merlin?
Rookwood Anglican , Section 12 ROW 15 Plot Number: 2101
MI Sapper. 1106, 5th A.B.G.R.O. Coy. Missed by his wife (Military headstone) (Masonic symbol on footstone)
Cheers, JM
-
Yes, I have just read that also.
He served in WWI his file is online at the NAA which brings his dob to within those years of 1871-1872.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
-
Yes, reading those 19 pages now...
enlisted Jan 1917 in the Railway Section, at age 44 and 11/12 years... It is possible he fibbed to get accepted !
Cheers, JM
EDIT TO ADD ... attaching snip and noting WWI enlistments were meant to be no older than 45 years... he could well have chosen to fib to be accepted.
-
Yes, many of them did ;D
That's why I was asking for his age from the death certificate.
-
Sorry about the delay, I had to duck out for a short time. I believe the year of birth 1861 to be correct, as death certificate states he was 74yrs at time of death in 1935. It also does state he was born in Bathurst.
There are also three marriages listed on the DC, no name for the second marriage but as the the other two are correct we know we have the right John Phillips.
The Caroline that has been mentioned I had also reviously thought might be the right, but the year of birth throws it.
miabar, where did you find the death notice, I'm not having luck with it.
Everywhere I have searched never shows a John with right parents.
btw Thanks everyone, you are really helping me with this mystery :-)
-
A brave Australian, took ten years off his life to volunteer to serve in The Great War.
-
I have found everything on the NSW BDM site
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?SessionID=26783173&event=births
-
Yes JM, my OH's grandfather did the same & ended up a POW for 3yrs & still survived to return home :D
I also find it strange if his parents were John & Eliza that none of his children were named after them ???
-
Death 1935 RANDWICK
PHILLIPS JOHN
Parents JOHN ELIZA
RANDWICK - (thats the area the hosp is in isnt it?)
-
Yes miabar,
I think the Prince of Wales Hospital (Randwick) was responsible for many of the Returned Servicemen from WWI ... I know that a number of those chaps spent considerable time there, my late Grandfather received SGW and also mustard gas issues from The Western Front. On his return he was orderly at that hospital and from private family papers he attended to quite a number of patients who were Returned Servicemen, also some of the Nurses and Sisters at that hospital had also served in the Clearing Stations at "The Front"... Grandfather's papers refer to it as a Repat hospital and I have always understood this to be Military Repatriation.
Cheers, JM
-
I do think miabar's on track for the parents of John who was born Bathurst 1861 ...
Those death registrations for John W PHILLIPS 1897 at Newtown and Eliza PHILLIPS 1917 at Newtown can be followed up ...
I'll see if I can find Eliza on the 1903 Electoral Roll
Back shortly... EDIT 1 Elizabeth PHILLIPS, domestic duties at 11 Raper St Newtown/Kingston in LANG electorate (no other PHILLIPS at that address, lots of PHILLIPS in that local area) EDIT 2 NONE are John, NONE with occupations associated with Loco Engines or Railways...
Cheers, JM
-
>>I do think miabar's on track for the parents of John who was born Bathurst 1861 ...
Those death registrations for John W PHILLIPS 1897 at Newtown and Eliza PHILLIPS 1917 at Newtown can be followed up ...
I'll see if I can find Eliza on the 1903 Electoral Roll<<
Thankyou, I've found the two death certificates, I'll send away for them to find out if there the right ones, but I've had no luck on the electoral roll yet.
Time now to call it a day, Thanks once again for your time & patience.
Till we next chat
nyteowl
-
Death 1897 at NEWTOWN
PHILLIPS JOHN W
Parents JOHN CAROLINE A
Those death registrations for John W PHILLIPS 1897 at Newtown
John W PHILLIPS who died 1897 is buried at Rookwood with his Parents-in-Law his MI show this:
PHILLIPS John W age 40yrs died 22 Aug 1897
Old Church of England
Section GG
Row 5
Grave 364, 365
Son in law of the above
And the above that appears on the MI (his parents-in-law) are:
James K MURRAY age 52 yrs d. 27 Jul 1889
Sarah Mary MURRAY age 57yrs d. 11 Jul 1898
-
Hi Neil, the death cert shows the PHILLIPS name, but we don't know if it was ever done legally.
REF No: 30409/1958 PHILLIPS NORMAN JOHN JOHN BEATRICE MARY PENRITH
Birth Cert shows :
REF No : 1090/1894 RICKETTS NORMAN J BEATRICE SYDNEY
and Thanks Jm, I'll check that out
Just to throw in a little more re the above
Marriage at Penrith in 1930
Norman John Phillips married Kathleen M Green referance 924/1930.
nyteowl do you know of this marriage above or feel that it may be connected seems odd that the coincidence of Penrith and Same name is there? :P
Neil
-
I am searching for information on John Phillips (birth -1895) married Eliza King (birth-1912) I'm not positive on the dates though.
They had one son John Phillips died 10th July 1935. Unsure if there was any other children.
The son was married 3 times.
1st wife: Ellen Langley m 1884,
2nd wife: Beatrice Ricketts m 1901, (my great grandmother)
3rd wife: Mabel Hardcastle m 1904.
Information on John & Eliza, or any other info greatly appreciated.
nyteowl
That may not be your Eliza's death in 1912. The index seems to indicate that her maiden surname was HAWLEY, and there is a HOWLEY/PHILLIPS marriage in 1869.
PHILLIPS is quite a common name and I think you should follow up on JM's suggestion by getting a transcription of John's marriage certificate/s. Death certs can be useful, but they can also lead you on a wild goose chase. If you are interested in getting a copy of John and Beatrice's divorce papers then there is usually a copy of the marriage certificate included.
I did find a John PHILLIPS/Eliza KING marriage in Gloucestershire Worcestershire in 1851.
Debra :)
-
Death 1917 NEWTOWN
PHILLIPS ELIZA E
Parents: JAMES K SARAH M
I think this is Elizas death in 1917
-
I believe that in post #49 Merlin has established that this is Eliza MURRAY, born in 1861. John W. PHILLIPS (born c1857) is buried with Eliza's parents at Rookwood.
Debra :)
-
:)
Sorry for this long post, sometimes it is not possible to be brief, JM
Yes, I do place reliance/worth in the info given by the bride and groom on their marriage, it is first hand from themselves, about themselves .... and when I see several marriages, I tend to rely more on the info from the first one, particularly if the later ones suggest either the bride or groom may have wanted to keep back some info around their previous life.
If I were spending my own pennies, I would get a transcript of the first marriage, which was registered in the Leichhardt district of Sydney. (ref 2188/1884)... Although in those decades some of the registration details were not recorded on the NSW BDM's Reg Gen's logs (particularly missing were the very important family history clues re parentage) ,
BUT the transcript (which will duplicate everything from the Reg Gen's records, and costs less and arrives quicker and is typed up by reliable and experienced transcribers so you do not have to try to interpret old 19th C handwriting yourself) should at least give you the clues to find the local parish records, and thus FROM THE LOCAL PARISH RECORDS you should be able to clearly establish the names of the parents of that John Phillips and that Ellen M Langley. (Of course, I am presuming that part of the m.c. was lacking on the Reg. Gen's records as is often the case).
Again I am sorry for the long post, but here's the very shortest explanation I can make to help you and all RChatters with NSW marriages in the decades leading up to WWI ... Cheers, JM
Short version of significant history of NSW BDM Registry records .... a snip of one part of their online historical records section, and notice that you are looking at a marriage for 1884 :)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
FROM 1856
Registrar General takes possession of 1834 to 1835 records held by the Supreme Court
FROM 1879
1825 to 1855 baptism, marriage and burial records lodged with Church of England Bishop were handed over to the Registry
FROM 1912
Reconciliation made between Registry and Church records. 158 Volumes of Early Church Records created with approximately 50,000 records.
Registry requests access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriage registers (this is the period covering that 1884 marriage)
PRESENT DAY
The task of reconciling the Church Records for marriages between 1856 and 1895 was never finalised. Some of the Registry's marriage records from these years still have missing information
So, from that last sentence you can see that this is why I suggest a transcript, and then follow up from that transcript by looking for the local Parish records...
-
Morning Everyone :-)
The Norman John Phillips who was my grandfather, was not actually a PHILLIPS, (more about that later) , but I do now know for certain his sister Beatrice was the daughter of JOHN PHILLIPS & BEATRICE RICKETTS.
On the certificate it shows John Phillips as a Railyway Employee born in Dulwich Hill
5824/1896 PHILLIPS BEATRICE M JOHN BEATRICE NEWTOWN
Neil, >>Marriage at Penrith in 1930 Norman John Phillips married Kathleen M Green referance 924/1930.<<<
Yes this one I know all about, they are my grandparents. :-)
Dundee, the marriage you mentioned REF NO: 6604/1912 PHILLIPS ELIZA (HAWLEY) 74 YRS MARRICKVILLE MARRICKVILLE
has also made me wonder, I think I'll have to send away for it to find out.
I may have also found a Death Certificate 16157/1935 PHILLIPS JOHN JOHN ELIZA RANDWICK
But this is the best news ever from DUNDEE:-Quote "I did find a John PHILLIPS/Eliza KING marriage in Gloucestershire in 1851."
Where do I go to find this & hopefully get a copy ?
What is the best place to go, to search Rookwood Cemetery with, I've had no luck there so far ?
Thanks fo your help :-)
nyteowl
majam your a CHAMP :-)
-
Re Rookwood Cemetery
NSW Resources Board here at RChat has good links for Rookwood !
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html
Fingers crossed
Cheers, JM (See, I can be brief !)
-
Thanks majam :-)
lol, Looks like Rookwood is overfull, the links no longer work :-(
-
Dundee, the marriage you mentioned REF NO: 6604/1912 PHILLIPS ELIZA (HAWLEY) 74 YRS MARRICKVILLE MARRICKVILLE has also made me wonder, I think I'll have to send away for it to find out.
This is a death registration in 1912 - I THINK it might be Elizabeth HOWLEY who married Andrew PHILLIPS in 1869, but this is just a guess. I doubt that it has anything to do with your family. There are a lot of Eliza/Elizabeth PHILLIPS who died in NSW.
I may have also found a Death Certificate 16157/1935 PHILLIPS JOHN JOHN ELIZA RANDWICK
I think you already have this death certificate ???
The Worcestershire (not Gloucestershire - my mistake) marriage cert for John PHILLIPS and Eliza KING will not tell you anything of any use, and may not even be related at all. You first need to establish the names of your John's parents from a source other than his death certificate, and that would be his first marriage cert. You can do a search for the marriage here https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records
Debra :)
-
Death 1898 Newtown
Murray Sarah M
Mother: Sarah M
Father Not Listed
Death 1889 Newtown
Murray James K
Mother: Christina
Father: John
-
My mistake Dundee, I do have the death cert, & other one I have on ,my list as a death cert not marriage (think I need more coffee)
anyway, I have just sent away for the first marriage info : REF :2188/1884 PHILLIPS JOHN LANGLEY ELLEN M LEICHHARDT
Fingers crossed there are a few more answers on it.
-
Thanks majam :-)
lol, Looks like Rookwood is overfull, the links no longer work :-(
OK, then try Google, keyword "Rookwood Cemetery".... the Independent and the RC websites are working for me, but I know the C of E server has funding issues...
Also, when you have the live links, it would be good if you could send a PM to our Mod with the details so that the Resources thread can be updated.
Cheers, JM
-
:D Hi nyteowl,
I have had a look through the English census both for 1851 and 1861 in Worcestershire and found several single John Phillips in 1851 and several single Eliza Kings in 1851. In the 1861 their were two John Phillips married to two Eliza's, no way of knowing if their "Eliza's" maiden name was King though.
So there is a possibility but I may stress a hard one to follow up.
Neil
-
I think I may just wait till the marriage certificate arrives before I do any more searching, hopefully it will help :-)
-
I think I may just wait till the marriage certificate arrives before I do any more searching, hopefully it will help :-)
You could get searching on other lines in the mean time :)
Did you order a transcript from one of the official transcribers ?
Cheers, JM
-
Thanks for the hint majam, I'll organise what I have & go from there :-)
Update, yes I've ordered the marriage cert of John & his first wife, hopefully it will help shell more lights :-)
-
My husband is a descendant of this couple from John (the son) Phillips' first marriage to Ellen Langley. We don't know much about John Phillips or his father John Phillips and we'd love to know more. I have the marriage certificate of Ellen and John from 1884. You've probably already bought it by now and found out that it gives no information on John Phillips' side of the family. Have you found out anymore since this time?
-
Hi all,
How old is your John Phillips at his 1884 marriage? And do you have any definite info on where he was born?
The reason I ask is I have a stray John Phillips who I've never been able to trace. This John Phillips origins would be deliberately murky, I would think, as there was probably a bit of bigamy going on!
He was the son of James Henry Phillips and Charlotte Waite, born 1866 in Berrima. James Henry and Charlotte were cousins, James being the son of Henry Phillips and Sophia Waite, and Charlotte was the illegitimate daughter of Sophia's brother William Henry Waite and Ellen Neenan.
John Phillips was the youngest child of James and Charlotte and soon after his birth, Charlotte left her husband AND children with William Chalker, a neighbour. They ended up in Bungendore.
I don't know what became of James, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took up with some other woman. After all his wife had left him with 4 young children. The Waite/Phillips family were among the original settlers of the Moss Vale/Sutton Forest area. The King family were also an old settler family from this area and the two families intermarried. It wouldn't surprise me if James took up with one of the King girls after Charlotte left him!
It was the combination of PHILLIPS and KING that got me interested in your problem. Is the death certificate the only reference to your John Phillips parents names? DCs can be wildly inaccurate.
Bye
Anne
-
The death certificate is not held by me (nyteowl holds that), but the details match with the family information we have. That is, the dates and names of his wives are accurate so we are sure we have the same person. Whether the information on the DC about his parents is accurate is another question - I do agree with you that DCs often contain errors. However, it's pretty much all we have to go on. I own the marriage certificate from the first marriage. John Phillips is simply listed as "Full age" and his brid as "under 21 years". The bride's father's name is given but no information is given on John's parents. So we cannot learn his birth date or parents' names from the MC. The DC says his age at death (assuming for a moment they've got that right) and it's working back from that that we have assumed he was born in 1861. Which would mean (if all was accurate) he was 23 when he married his first wife in 1884. BUT we should add we are looking at TWO John Phillips - the older married to Eliza King and the younger (born approx. 1861) who married in 1884.
-
If he was 23 in 1884 then he can't be my missing John Phillips who would have been only around 18 at the time. It's annoying though as there are a few coincidences. Some of the previous posts on your puzzle say that your John Phillips was a railway worker?
My Phillips family were involved in working for the railways. James Phillips was a farmer, but he seems to be the last of my family to work the original land grants in the Mittagong/ Moss Vale area ( pity that!) His grandchildren worked for the railways all around NSW.
Bye
Anne
-
JOHN PHILLIPS
DEATH CERTIFICATE No 1935 /016157
10th July 1935
CAUSE CEREBRAL THROMBOSIS & CARDIAC FAILURE
3 MARRIAGES
1ST – LEICHARDT, SYDNEY NSW
2ND ELLEN MARY LANGLEY
3RD MABEL BERTHA HARDCASTLE
Hi, it’s been awhile but I think I may have solved a bit of the mystery.
John Phillips was married 3 times
1st. 1884 Ellen Langley reg no 2188/1884
2nd 1901 Beatrice Ricketts reg no 6970/1901 divorced 1903
3rd 1904 Mabel Hardcastle reg no 7321/1904
1st marriage children –
1st child Esther 1885
2nd child William 1886
3rd child Louisa 1889
4th child Mildred 1891
5th child Emily 1892
2nd marriage (This is the one I am related with)
1st child Norman John 1894, birth certificate gives no Fathers name only Mother Beatrice Ricketts, but I am beginning to believe John was the father and maybe the pregnancy occurred whilst he was still with Ellen Langley.
2nd child Beatrice Maud 1895
I don’t know of any children for the 3rd marriage as yet, and I hope it helps solve a few of the questions.