RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 22 March 11 22:39 GMT (UK)
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I have recently found my father's journal, which he started when he joined the RAF in 1936 and which he continued until his unit left Egypt in 1940. However, he has written this in Esperanto. I am able to translate quite a lot of it, but there are some pieces which I cannot make out, so I was wondering whether we have any Esperantists in our midst? The journal is very long so I don't expect a complete translation, but there are parts when he is talking of engagements and the deaths of his comrades which I would really like to understand better.
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There's a translation facility on Google toolbar, although they may not have Esperanto, but it's worth a try. If not, try googling it!
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What a wonderful find.
I think there are still Esperanto societies around today, they appear on TV from time to time on the evening "magazine" programmes.
As said before google and see what you can find.
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What puzzles me, and perhaps the translation will give the answer is "Why should an Englishman (presumably) write a journal in a language other than his native tongue"?
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perhaps he was learning Esperanto and ...
he wanted a bit of practice?
he wanted it to be private?
eadaoin
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I believe my father was learning Esperanto at the time. He came from Yorkshire and met my mother when he was stationed in Suffolk, and attended a meeting of Esperantists in Ipswich. From then on, both before and after their marriage, my parents always wrote to each other in Esperanto rather than English and it was not unusual for them to converse thus if they didn't want us kids to know what they were talking about!!! So in response to the suggestions posted by Eadaoin, it would appear the answers are Yes, Yes and Yes !
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Good idea Greensleeves, my wife and I used French for this purpose until our family started learning it themselves.
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In the 1930/40's Eseperanto was very popular, it was a new language which was hoped would become the new International Language to be used worldwide.
As you can tell though this idea fell pretty much on its face. But those who did take it up did so with great gusto, hence the societies which are still around today.
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Just a little to add to the Esperanto topic !
It was taught at the school I went to which was a long time ago ! Actually I left school in 1949 so that'll tell you how old I am !!! I now live in Aus.but did all my schooling in Dagenham and our teacher of Esperanto was a Mr.Toms. A great old man who would have left us years ago. In those days they had an Esperanto Assoc. convention every year where people who could talk it or were interested came from all over the world for a week. I managed to attent two conventions even though the money was a struggle for my folks. Firstly went to Ipswich then just after the war it was held in Holland. When I left school Mr.Toms got me a job at the British Esperanto Assoc office which which was then in Holland Pk Ave. W11. Stayed there 12 months but got itchy feet and eventually emigrated to NZ !! Esperanto was very popular in those days as has been said. While at school, in about 1946 or 1947 (my memory isn't what it was!), a film was made at the school about Esperanto and I actually spoke two lines in it !!! The film was called "In Other Words". Wonder if anyone else out there in Rootschat land learnt Esperanto at school because if they did, chances are we were at school at the same time because it was the only school it was taught at at least in Dagenham.
Just thought I'd add my little bit of interest,
Cheers for now,
Arty 8)
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That is really interesting, arty. I think the idea behind Esperanto was wonderful and my father, who continued his interest in Esperanto until his death, had contacts all over the world. When I moved house recently, I discovered an interesting treasure which he had received as a gift from China in the 1960s: The Works of Mau Tse Tung in Esperanto.
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It was taught at the school I went to which was a long time ago !
Arty 8)
Certainly was, I was about 8/9 years old when I learnt it and think we had an hours lesson twice a week.
Cheers
KHP
Edited: No Arty, I wasn't at the same school, I am here, and you were over there ;D
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I discovered an interesting treasure which he had received as a gift from China in the 1960s: The Works of Mau Tse Tung in Esperanto.
I had a copy (in English) quite a lot of it made sense in a very logical Oriental way.
If we are to proceed wwith European integration should Esperanto be used as a common language throughout the Union, or would Latin be preferable?
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What puzzles me, and perhaps the translation will give the answer is "Why should an Englishman (presumably) write a journal in a language other than his native tongue"?
I kept a diary for a number of years, including one spent living in Italy. I wrote a number of the entries in Italian or in a mixture of Italian and English, in particular those which had to do with mundane everyday living, work etc. where many of the words would have been in Italian anyway. Musings about emotional stuff, life, the universe and everything I wrote in English.
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Understandable, but there is not to my knowledge a country called Esperant. Is there?
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RR -- You originally asked why someone might choose to write their diary in a language other than their native tongue, and my response was to this. But I agree, choosing to write it in Esperanto is slightly unusual.
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I did wonder whether a serviceman was allowed to keep a journal when on active service? Maybe this was one of the reasons why he chose not to keep it in English.
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I suppose that for many people that want to practice a language while learning it, the easier thing to write, would be about the things just done, the things familiar to the mind at that moment ... after writing for a while, that becomes a journal.
And writing a journal in Esperanto is not unusual at all ... at least among people that speak Esperanto, as testified by the one found by Greensleeves.
I found interesting the opinions given about Esperanto, without even trying to Google the word "Esperanto". Google would have pointed to about 60 million occurrences of the word Esperanto in the web. That doesn't count the pages written in Esperanto without mentioning the word, neither the pages written about Esperanto in languages that spell Esperanto in a different way or using different alphabets.
Esperanto was published in 1887, 123 years ago. Most of this time, the use of Esperanto was growing, without counting the periods of both World Wars. During the government of Stalin, Hitler, and other "nationalistic" liders, many Esperanto speakers were sent to Siberia, and or killed, just because they always tried to communicate with people from other countries.
There is a vast library of Esperanto works: books, magazines, web pages, blogs, pod casts, videos. You can find thousands of them in the web, for free. You may start at this page:
Resources to learn and use Esperanto (400 links)
http://esperantofre.com/edu/iloj01a.htm
Esperanto is a living language, spoken in at least half of the countries of the world.
Get to know Esperanto ... you will be surprised with the results.
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I did wonder whether a serviceman was allowed to keep a journal when on active service? Maybe this was one of the reasons why he chose not to keep it in English.
Even more dangerous than an English journal I would think.
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I had a look at learning esperanto once, and very interesting it looked and said to be quick to learn. Seems to be an amalgamation of a lot of languages from what I remember, and would be very handy for the EU I should think.
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I had a go for a while, just as the movement was losing impetus. It was all very logical, but kept some of the odd things that probably makes English the lingua franca of the world (and yes, I know that is a contradiction in words ;D)
It retained nouns having a gender (which makes so many other languages hard for the English) and cases (which makes learning Latin, German and Russian so hard for the English and others).
It tried to mix the Latin and Germanic languages - but one language had already done that - English! ;D
meles
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Maybe that accounts for the ascendancy of English, along with Microsoft of course!
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Well, I think it does! English is very flexible and changes all the time. Hence my endless grumbles here and elsewhere about the language going to the dogs... ::) ;D
meles
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Agreed, but remember the language continues to evolve.
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I try, Roger - I try... ::) ;D
meles
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Reading the comment by Meles, again I have to ask why
people write about Esperanto without even consulting Google
first?
Esperanto is not losing impetus.
Today there thousands more books in Esperanto than 20 years ago. Many thousands of books and magazines can be read and/or downloaded from the web, (all for free) ... something that wasn't possible 20 years ago.
Only 25 languages have more entries in wikipedia than Esperanto ... out of 278 languages which have wikipedias ... out of more than 6000 languages.
Somebody must be putting all those pages in the web. Add videos, music, hundreds of yahoo-groups and Google-groups, blogs, Skype, Ipernity, Facebook. If you Google the word "Esperanto" you will get more than 60 million occurrences.
If you open the page http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=eo you will see that even Google has a search page in Esperanto.
"It retained nouns having a gender"
It does not. Same as in English it has a few words like "actor" and "actress", or "husband" and "wife", or "Joseph" and "Josephine". The rules to make these femenines are regular, more like "Joseph" and "Josephine", or "heroe" and "heroine".
"... and cases"
There is only one case in Esperanto, that, even if it is something that you have to learn, makes things more understable, and you don't need to consider word order.
"It tried to mix the Latin and Germanic languages"
Esperanto is not a mix. Words were selected by what Zamenhof though were the best known (in Europe) words for each meaning.
I had to learn English. I learned Esperanto because I think it is the right thing to do. English resulted hundred times more difficult ... even after I moved to the USA. Esperanto allows me to communicate with people all over the world.
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I bow with good grace to someone who knows better than I. :)
meles
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I believe that although there has always been some interest in Esperanto in the UK, it has never really become as popular as elsewhere in the world, and that is possibly due to the fact that we are so bad/lazy at learning other languages.
Whilst I am not an Esperantist, my parents were, and I was aware that both of them had penfriends all over the world. In particular they had contacts in various European countries - particularly Eastern Europe - as well as Japan and China. China in particular in the 1960s was very keen to promote Esperanto, hence the stream of gifts my father received - all in Esperanto.
I would like to think that Esperanto is still flourishing in the world, and I am rather pleased to read EEnrike's comments regarding its popularity. I know that my father worked tirelessly for many years to promote it; I am sure he would be rather pleased to know that over 20 years after his death, his name is once again linked to Esperanto!
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Bona tago Arty
mi ankau estis en la filmo "In other Words" en 1948, kaj mi ankau parolis nemultaj vortoj!
Hi Arty!
I can still remember some Esperanto, though not much. The film was shot in the boy's hall at Lymington Secondary, and I knew H. G. Toms quite well, and corresponded with him until he died quite some years ago in Bulgaria.
I probably have a photo of you in an Esperanto group about 1948/9 with Mr Toms.
Ron
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Bona tago Ron !
Mi ne parolis Esperanto dum longa tempo sed me esperas ke vi komprenas tiu vortoj !
Like you, I've forgotten most of what I learnt !
I wanted to send you a private message but note that it cannot be done until 3 messages are posted. As you only have two so far, I'll just put these few words on here then can send you a longer private message when you have replied. So much I have to say ! I just cannot believe that I've been in contact with someone from school from over 60 years ago let alone said a few words in a film as you did also !! We must have been in the same class Ron because as far as I remember, it was only those of us in class 4a who were in the film ? Talk about coincidence !!! So much I want to say Ron including re MrH Toms etc but would prefer writinG more in a private message which I think you'll agree is wise. I'm wracking my brain to try and remember exactly who you are. I must know you !! As for a photo you might have well I just don't know what to say ! This is unbelievable ! Please post or preferably send me a personal message. We have so much to catch up on !
Gis la revido, cheers,
Arty
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Hi Arty
you definitely should know me - after all, it is only 62 years since we left Lymington!
I shall scan the photo, though I don't know if I can send it by PM. I may have to post it on Rootsweb. There are 11 boys and Mr Toms on it. We look real deadbeats! I think we went to Hengelo in Holland after Ipswich?
Ron
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You cannot send attachments with Personal Messages (PM) but can exchange email addresses by PM and then exchange information. Since the photo mentioned seems to contain living people best done via email.
P.S. this is Rootchat not Rootsweb ;)
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Thanks for the message re attachments and private messages. I didn't know that !
Regards,
Arty ::)