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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Redda on Tuesday 22 March 11 21:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi all.
New to this and only started looking up my family tree a few weeks ago with the aid of my parents, aunts and uncles and grandparents.
Have bought a couple of books and read a lot of websites and also joined the ancestry website to aid my search.
I am planning on visiting the liverpool records office in the next couple of weeks and have a question. A lot of what I have read mention that you can order BDM certificates but none of the information I have read suggest whether you can view these at the records office? Can I actually view the certificates or is the only way to view them is to buy a copy of them?
My original post is with regards to a Thomas Burt (born 1811-1816 in Birmingham) died 1870 in Liverpool. He lived in Liverpool and worked as a Post Office Clerk. He was married to Sarah Burt born 1810, died 1868. The pair had three children Hannah, Thomas and William.
I THINK I have found information regarding Thomas and Sarah's wedding (i need to view or order the certificate to see if it is correct) and believe they were married in liverpool in 1837. I THINK at this moment in time, Sarah's maiden name was Sarah Pritchard.
At the moment I am having great difficulty finding any information regarding Thomas's father or finding any information regarding Thomas's birth in Birmingham.
In the 1841 census Thomas and Sarah had a William Burt (aged 63 if I recall correctly) and Henry Burt (aged 20 staying with them, but unfortunately the census does not say what relation these two are to Thomas. It could be that William is Thomas's father but he could also be an uncle.
If anyone could help me find out a bit more about Thomas prior to 1841 it would be of great help. And if anyone could tell me about viewing or whether you have to buy certificates that would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for reading
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Hello
Normally you need to buy the marriage certificate to see the details, unless you know where the marriage took place, in which you may be able look at the Church records at the record office.
I can see the Baptism of Thomas Burt in 1839 on Lancashire OPC:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
but haven't spotted the marriage.
Modified - found a marriage in 1837 at St Philip, Liverpool of Thomas Burt and Sarah Edwards on Lancashire BMD:
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi
You should be able to view this on St Philip's PR when you visit the record office :)
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi, I think the one you have found is the son of Thomas and Sarah.
Baptisms: 16 Apr 1839 St.Catherine Abercrombie Square, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Edward Burt - Son of Thomas Burt & Sarah
Born: 2 Jun 1838
Abode: Mulberry St.
Occupation: Clerk in the Post Office
Notes: Priv Bap
Baptised by: J. North
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1861, Page 30, Entry 232
Source: LDS Film 1655552
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Sorry, pressed enter a bit prematurely there. Thanks for looking, very much appreciated.
I have had trouble finding other Online parish's that allow you to search records like the Lancashire one :(
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Hello. It's possible that they married on Flintshire as Sarah is from there and the first child Hannah, was also born there.
Madri
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Thank you very much Morgan. I think that is deffinately the right marriage. I need to look back at a few census records as I am sure that the Edwards stayed with the Burts, so that makes a lot of sense.
And your earlier reply. If I know the church, and the church still exists, I may be able to view the records there? How would I go about doing that, i.e. ring ahead and ask if I can visit and see the records?
Thank you again Morgan :D
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Hi Madri,
Yeah, Hannah was born in Wales but the Edwards are listed as nieces and nephews of the Burts in the 1851 and 61 census so it seems likely that Sarah's maiden name was Sarah Edwards.
I think, hehe. This is all new to me :)
Thanks both for your help!
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If I know the church, and the church still exists, I may be able to view the records there? How would I go about doing that, i.e. ring ahead and ask if I can visit and see the records?
I meant that you should be able to view St Philip Church records at the Liverpool record Office, either on microfiche or transcripts perhaps. I recommend that you contact them in advance to check what is available, and to make an appointment as you may need to book a microfiche viewer.
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Right. I can't wait to go to the records office as at the moment all my research has been done online, so it will be nice to start painting a picture for the names I currently have.
I don't really know what to expect when I go to the records office and imagine my first time will be spent pestering the staff there with inane questions! Printing out all the information I have on each family member such as the indexes.
Still struggling to find much about Thomas Burt pre to 1841, so hopefully if I can find the marriage certificate, I can find out his fathers details.
I know Thomas Burt worked as a post office clerk. Do you think writing to the post office, they would have any details about him stored? Doubt they will have this online but maybe they have their own archives?
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Hello :)
There is a British Postal Museum and Archive which hold records of Post Office employees:
http://postalheritage.org.uk/collections/archive/familyhistory/
Are you familiar with Genuki site? Here's the Liverpool page:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Liverpool/
Kind Regards
Morgan
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I must have missed seeing this.I would be very interested if you find out any more about the Edwards family of Sarah.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi Russell :)
Sarah was born abt 1810 at Tremerchion, Flintshire according to 1861
RG9 Piece 2684 Folio 53 Page 4
Hannah was born there too, abt 1833
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Again, thank you very much for your help Morgan, I will have a good look at that and see if I can order one of the catalogues which will hopefully have Thomas listed. I have used the Genuki before and found it very usuful as the link to the lancashire parish allows you to search for relatives. My partner is also researching her family tree which is dotted around yorkshire and Lincolnshire, but there doesn't seem to be as much information with regards to parish records for those areas on Genuki.
I am applying for his marriage certificate today so hopefully find out who his parents were and confirm who Sarah Edwards parents were.
Hi William, with what Morgan has put, does that look like it could be the Sarah you are looking for? I will keep you posted after I receive the marriage certificate and delve a little further.
With viewing parish records at the liverpool records office, do they hold the same information as a marriage certificate e.g. occupation, bride and grooms parents?
At this moment in time I am only purchasing the certificate of Thomas and Sarah as I am 90% convicned that the Burts after them are correct (the visit to the archives is to confirm this and start adding a bit of life to their names). (I say at the moment as it has cost me a small fortune getting started so I am not finiancially in the position to obtain a ton of certificates just yet).
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Thanks Redda and Morgan,after seeing the Census entries though I'm afraid to say it is very unlikely that your Sarah belongs to my Edwards families who hailed from the Bagillt area of Flintshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Well I visited the archives and managed to find the marriage certificate Was strange seeing their signatures. I discovered that Thomas's dad was called Thomas. His second name is spelt Birt but his son (who got married) is spelt Burt (it looks like they were writing Birt but then corrected it but not the dads spelling of the second name). Thomas's dad had died before the wedding so was not present.
Sarah's father was called Edward. So he was Edward Edwards :D
He was also dead before the marriage.
And thats where I have become stuck. Not sure where to go from here, warwickshire does not seem to have a searchable opc like the liverpool and lancashire one.
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Hi Redda
That's great news that you have found the father's names of Thomas and Sarah. You could ask a Moderator to move this thread to the Warwickshire board to see if someone can find a Baptism for Thomas Birt/Burt, son of Thomas. The IGI has a couple of possibilities christened at Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick within the right timeframe:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp
If you want to find Sarah Edwards, daughter of Edward Edwards, born about 1810 at Tremerchion, Flintshire, you could try the Flintshire board if you can't visit the local record office there.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Redda, I searched for Sarah wife of Thomas Burt. I posted this about 7 years ago.
I am looking for information, (and any methods ) regarding my ggg grandfather william Williams, a miner, born about 1798 in Cyffylliog, Denbighshire. (so says the 1851 census). He married Jane (maiden name unknown), and had at least 4 children. Ebenezer ( my gg grandfather b 1842 Dymeirchion ),John Williams ( b 1840, Dymeirchion) and Jane Williams (b,1835 Newmarket) and Margaret Williams (b. 1833 Newmarket).
The 2 girls seem to be in Liverpool in 1861 as a niece to Thomas and Sarah Burt. Sarah was born in Dymeirchion about 1810.
I do not have ancestry.com anymore, but you may have solved my Jane Williams history. I am a little out of touch with this search from 7 years ago. but I obviously, at the time, found the 2 Williams girls with Thomas and Sarah Burt in 1861 as nieces. If they are nieces, then a good chance Edwards was Jane's (b 1799) maiden name. especially since Sarah is from the same area (Dymerchion/Tremerchion)
If you have any other info, I would appreciate hearing from you. If you have ancestry, I would love to see copy of this entry in 1861.