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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: earley-bird on Tuesday 22 March 11 19:58 GMT (UK)

Title: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Tuesday 22 March 11 19:58 GMT (UK)
I am trying to trace  John Early (or Earley) in 1841 without luck :'(

Have found him
1846 Married in St Pauls Church  Finsbury to Sarah Ann Bruce  (no ages given)
1851, HO107 /1533 258 3
1861, RG9/316 53 19
1871, RG10 /634 /56
1881  RG11 /569 /78/8
1888 died St Georges Workhouse 12/10/1888
His Father's name is given as John Earley Wharfinger on his Marriage cert.

From the ages given on the census and death cert his DOB must be between 1824-1827
 
Has anyone got access to Parish records ? happy to pay a reasonable fee for research and expenses

Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Tuesday 22 March 11 20:39 GMT (UK)
As he is a tobacconist on his marriage certificate this is a possibility.
HO107; Piece  665; Book:  1; Civil Parish:  St Mary Islington West; County:  Middlesex; Enumeration District:  1; Folio:  3; Page:  1
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Tuesday 22 March 11 21:56 GMT (UK)
thank you Mary  I'll check this out now.

Mmm I cannot enter these details in FindMyPast and my 1841 Census set is packed away in the loft. You couldn't give me some of the information so that I can look it up on FindMyPast could you please ?

Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 00:01 GMT (UK)
is there anyone still awake out there ? ;D ;D

could someone kindly look this up for me please and give me the family as I don't know how to look it up on findmypast and my 1841 census diskset is buried in the loft.

HO107; Piece  665; Book:  1; Civil Parish:  St Mary Islington West; County:  Middlesex; Enumeration District:  1; Folio:  3; Page:  1
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 23 March 11 07:43 GMT (UK)
1841
HO107/665/1/3/1
charlotte martha head age 30. occ. milliner
john eley age 20. occ. shopman
elen wevers age 20. occ. shopwoman
eliza bank age 20. occ shopwoman
ann claridge age 14
ann eves age 30
ann rek age 15
living at;st.mary,islington west
all born in county
don't see the tie up with him being a tobacconist though?
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 23 March 11 08:05 GMT (UK)
Hi

I'm posting this because I think it is interesting to note ............
(Keep or discard at your pleasure)

HO107 677 6, 13, P17
"Bury Place No 1 Cont"
(St Marylebone, Christchurch, District 6, Page 9)
 
 (Enumerators "tick" - maybe for family? )
James Early 40
Mary Early 41
(Enumerators "tick" - maybe for family? )
John Early 18
Sarah Early 9
Godfrey Early 9 MO
Richard Early 9 MO (Marked as "Twins" then "ticked off" or "struck thru")
(Enumerators "tick" - maybe for family? )

All born Middlesex

Lots of "What if" - Sarah not John's brother? What if the enumerator had written Sarah's age as 9 instead of say, 19? Got confused because the twins are 9 (months)?

Regards

Ray
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Wednesday 23 March 11 09:17 GMT (UK)
Sorry, with you providing just references I assumed you could retrieve it.

Tobacconist may sell in a shop?
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 15:35 GMT (UK)
thank you for the lookup and suggestion Mary. I have the 1841 census but at the moment it is unretrievable. If I had a Ancestry account I could have used that but I only have a FindMyPast one at the moment.

I think the only way I am going to be able to confirm any of the numerous possibilities is to obtain a copy of the Baptism but I'm not sure how to go about this.

I have read through the entire Lon & MDDX excellent resource guides and checked all the links but I am utterly confused now due to all the registration district and parish boundary changes and missing records etc .

I think my best chance is to consult the registered baptisms for Surrey Southwark for the period 1823-1827 and perhaps my best bet is to employ the services of a professional Genealogist based in London ? 
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Wednesday 23 March 11 15:47 GMT (UK)
Would they find anything other than what is available on Ancestry? The London Metropolitan Archives are already available on there, but I have had no luck finding an entry. 

I did look at some christening entries in the Southwark district around the right date, however I didn't come across a Wharfinger.
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Wednesday 23 March 11 15:50 GMT (UK)
Hang on, could this be a possibility for a brother?

Thomas William Early son of John and Sarah, born 30th December 1820 and christened 29th January, 1821 in St Alphege, Greenwich - father's occupation is Waterman
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 15:52 GMT (UK)
I hadn't realised that Ancestry had all the London & MDDX Parish records . !

 I am just about to renew my subs with FindMyPast and was wondering what the pros and cons were of the two . Most of my family were in London & MDDX so it would seem a good idea to switch to Ancestry. However I do find FindMyPast an easier site to navigate and word is that FindMyPast census transcriptions are more full, accurate & reliable ?

Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Wednesday 23 March 11 15:58 GMT (UK)
I can't comment as I haven't used it, however I believe all the 1911 censuses are to be included in all packages so that would be a benefit.

A couple of other entries for the same parents in the same church

Daniel born 31 August, christened 8 November 1814, address Church Street - father Waterman
Maria Louisa born 4 December 1816 christened 16 February 1818, address Church Street - father Waterman

Who were the witnesses at his marriage?
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 16:02 GMT (UK)
Hang on, could this be a possibility for a brother?

Thomas William Early son of John and Sarah, born 30th December 1820 and christened 29th January, 1821 in St Alphege, Greenwich - father's occupation is Waterman

I don't think so unless John gave a different  age all his life.. His age given on 1851/61/71/81 is fairly consistant and would suggest a birthdate of between 1823 and 1827 . It would be an amazing coincidence if John's Wife and Mother-in-law were both called Sarah.

This is the trouble isn't it . There are so many variables. I found one of the census records by looking at every household in the street records. My Earley's had been transcribed as Tooley !..which was also the name of the street !  how careless was that.

Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 16:05 GMT (UK)

Who were the witnesses at his marriage?

F Collins and Julia harrison

The link to Daniel sounds promising as that name re-occurs throughout the next 150 years
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Wednesday 23 March 11 16:20 GMT (UK)
I'm puzzled why you think Daniel could be a brother and yet Thomas couldn't since his dob is even closer to John's estimated birth.  Seems logical to me, John might be the youngest of four children.

Sarah is one of the most common names, I wouldn't rule it out.
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 23 March 11 16:57 GMT (UK)
Hi

I can't comment as I haven't used it, however I believe all the 1911 censuses are to be included in all packages so that would be a benefit.

All packages? On which website?

Thanks
Ray
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Wednesday 23 March 11 17:11 GMT (UK)
yes I obviously wasn't concentrating  ::) 

trying to do too many jobs at once probably.

The Thomas William connection is actually the best possibility and one I hadn't found to date. Could you please let me have any other information you can like address  other siblings etc and the folio pg numbers .

Thank you for all your work on this mary its much appreciated .
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: Gossip64 on Thursday 24 March 11 20:32 GMT (UK)
In the 1st posting, the father's name is quoted as John Earley Wharfinger, the wharfinger is an occupation, someone who looks after a wharf and the goods that are delivered to it etc. which incidentally could be tobacco or any other kind of commodity.

Hope this is helpful.

Gossip64
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: MaryA on Thursday 24 March 11 21:00 GMT (UK)
I don't have them on any censuses, the information I found was from the baptisms.


I can't comment as I haven't used it, however I believe all the 1911 censuses are to be included in all packages so that would be a benefit.
All packages? On which website?

Findmypast include the 1911 census in a package on it's own, but also in both the Full and Foundation packages.
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: earley-bird on Thursday 24 March 11 23:56 GMT (UK)
In the 1st posting, the father's name is quoted as John Earley Wharfinger, the wharfinger is an occupation, someone who looks after a wharf and the goods that are delivered to it etc. which incidentally could be tobacco or any other kind of commodity.

Hope this is helpful.

Gossip64

thank you for your advice. My paternal line have all been dock workers for the past 190 years so I was familiar with the term but I suspect it was probably exageration ::). I am the first male not to work in the docks but go to Public school, University and become an Architect! not bad for a cockney boy eh.... ;)
Title: Re: 1841 Census lookup Southwark Surrey
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 25 March 11 07:46 GMT (UK)


MaryA - Worth knowing when renewal time approaches.

Early-bird -  Not bad? Well done! But not unique.     ;D

R