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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: -Glen- on Tuesday 22 March 11 16:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
This is my Great-Grandmother 'Nanny Dinah'. The photo is a scanned copy of a copy. Unfortunately, we don't have the original.
A Military expert happened to notice me carrying this photo one day and asked to see it! She explained to me that it was a 'Munitionette' uniform. We had no idea that Dinah had worked in a Munitions factory. She was born c1891 and I've read that the act was passed by Parliament in 1915, to allow women to work in these factories. She had her first child in 1918, so I'm guessing it was taken sometime between 1915-18. Would you say that's correct? Also, any other details about this photo that only your expert eyes would notice?!
Many thanks in advance, Glen.
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Good heavens, she's wearing pants!!
Not an easy one Glen because as she's wearing a uniform it's not likely to conform to the fashion of the day...any day. Like the pants.
But the pose and general look of the photo are not wildly out of tone, in my opinion, with WWI.
She's wearing a wedding ring though, and doesn't seem to be "indisposed" or whatever they used to say :)
Good to know about the uniform...might come in handy some day.
Cheers,
China
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Yes, my Mum recently spotted the wedding ring! That only adds to the mystery of Nanny Dinah's first 27 years of her life! (Can't find her birth record or 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses! And although my Great-Grandparents had children together between 1918-1934, they didn't marry until 1929! Perhaps this an engagement ring, she's wearing?)
Thanks for taking a look, Glen.
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Doesn't look like an engagement ring to me.However, the date seems to be clarified as between 1915 and 1917. Regarding the marriage in 1929, sight of the certificate would determine if she had been married before, and should also give details of her parents.
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Thanks for that Redroger. Nanny Dinah is a bit of a mystery! I'm now wondering if she was married previously?! Although i can't find anything to suggest so and the marriage cert in 1929 records her as a Spinster. Mind you, they were married in a Registry Office, false home address was given, nobody recognises the names of the witnesses and everybody thought they were married 11/12 years earlier in a church! (I've posted all the details on the 'Kent Lookup Requests' board, under the posting of 'Birth/Baptism/Census lookup please - Dorothy 'Dinah' Staples/Shepherd/Langley')
Thanks alot, Glen.
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Perhaps this an engagement ring, she's wearing?
I'm curious about the comment about the engagement ring. When did that tradition start? Was it solely a matter of dollars available to purchase one?
My only context is with my relatives. None of great grandmothers had engagement rings (though some came from / married into "comfortable" families). My grandmother married for the first time in 1927 and didn't have one either.
BTW, I loved the photo!!!
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Have you tried a 1911 search for Dinah with everything else shown as a wildcard? It enabled me to find my father when a total mess had been made of his surname transcription. I would try Dinah for each year 1889 through 1893.My parents married in 1939 and Mum got her engagement ring in 1953. Yes it was a matter of economics.
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I've done a bit of digging into the question about engagement rings. Here's something from 1873. Apparently the right hand thing would be an American tradition and not necessarily British.
"The proposition being made and accepted, a ring, called 'the engagement ring,' usually containing a single diamond, of the highest value to which the generosity and means of the giver are capable of attaining, is presented by
the successful suitor to his betrothed, who wears it ostentatiously on the ring-finger of her right hand."
from: "The Bazar Book of Decorum.
The care of the Person, Manners, Etiquette, and Ceremonials." 1873
Cheers,
China
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who wears it ostentatiously on the ring-finger of her right hand."
Hi China, TX as always for the insight. Wearing the engagement ring on the right hand isn't an American / North American thing. We wear our rings on the left too. I've heard that the right hand engagement / wedding ring tradition is European (though I have nothing to back this up other than a few conversations.) ???
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Certainly not British to my knowledge, the engagement ring in worn on the wedding (third ) finger of the left hand, in addition to the woman's wedding ring.
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I'm Canadian too, RM, and well aware of that :D However, we are no longer living in 1873.
Except for my washing machine, which dates from around then...or possibly earlier ;D
Cheers,
C
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Thanks all for your thoughts on engagement rings and which hand to wear the rings!
I've just been doing some research and it seems that left hand versus right, really varies all over the world. Although the UK and Americas seem to lean towards the left. Eastern European countries tend to go for the right - as do some Asian countries. Apparently gay couples use the right hand too.
And regarding engagement rings - apparently they didn't become popular until the 1930s - starting in North America.
Hmmm....so was Nanny Dinah married previously?! The plot thickens! Haha! Thanks everyone! And thanks for your idea about the 1911 wildcard searches Redroger.
Glen.
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Let's know the outcome please Glen.
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My grandparents got engaged in 1924 and gran had a lovely engagement ring, and her sister who married during WW1 also had a beautiful engagement ring.
Rings have been given as tokens of love and an understanding to marriage since at least the Romans.
And my grandparents were not rich, but a very working class couple from Battersea.
EDIT: Redroger, mine is not a query, just a comment. I even have the receipt for the engagement ring which cost around 1 months wages for my grandfather.
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My grandparents got engaged in 1924 and gran had a lovely engagement ring, and her sister who married during WW1 also had a beautiful engagement ring.
Rings have been given as tokens of love and an understanding to marriage since at least the Romans.
And my grandparents were not rich, but a very working class couple from Battersea.
The more information we have, the more likely we are to reach the right answer.
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http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34168
1915 date
sylvia
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Hi Glen...Have you discounted the Dorothy Shepherd b. 1889 Single living in Maistone, Kent in 1911...she is living with her Aunt and two Sisters Mabel & Mary.
Carol
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So we think it could still possibly be an engagement ring? And maybe she was engaged to my Great-Grandfather when this photo was taken (1915-1917).
We know they had children together between 1918-1934. Perhaps they couldn't afford to get married until they did in 1929?
The fact that she uses two different maiden names is still very strange.
I thought I was on to something Treetotal, when I found that Dorothy! Birth nearly matched, place is very close and the fact that she was with an aunt. I've traced that Dorothy to the USA though. She emigrates there and marries there, so not my Nanny Dinah unfortunately :( Thanks for the thought though.
And thanks for the link to that forum Sylvia!
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Yes, my Mum recently spotted the wedding ring! That only adds to the mystery of Nanny Dinah's first 27 years of her life! (Can't find her birth record or 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses! And although my Great-Grandparents had children together between 1918-1934, they didn't marry until 1929! Perhaps this an engagement ring, she's wearing?)
Thanks for taking a look, Glen.
Although they never married until 1929 they had children before that, nothing to stop her wearing a wedding ring. Many couples never married but who was to know if you acted liked a married person/couple.
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Exactly right, YT...you can walk into any dimestore (Woolworth's to you ;D) and buy a cheapie ring. As long as you're not living in a neighbourhood where everybody knows you...
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Yes you're right! Who was to know!
My Grandmother is the youngest of their children and the only one still living and she said the family had always been brought up to believe (/assumed?) that they had married prior to having children and that it was a church wedding!
Any ideas on why she would use two different maiden names though?
And China: Your neighbourhood comment has made me wonder if that's why they went to the neighbouring Registry Office to marry and not the local one?! Keep up the pretence that they were already married?!
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O what tangled webs we weave when we first practice to deceive, Probably pay to get the birth certs, for the elder children.
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Hi YT,
I have all six birth certs and Dorothy is recorded as the informant on all of them, but for some reason she uses two different maiden names! On the eldest child's cert, she is Dorothy Staples formerly Shepherd, but on the other five, she is Dorothy Staples formerly Langley!
I've a topic in 'Kent Lookup Requests' with all of the details! It's called: Birth/Baptism/Census lookup please - Dorothy 'Dinah' Staples/Shepherd/Langley
:)
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Ha, curious,
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I know! ???
And even stranger that I can't find a birth record for her or 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses - and that's trying both maiden names!
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I've just discovered that you can request info from a database of the 1939 National Registration Books!
I'm going to see what they have for Nanny Dinah! At least I should learn her date of birth! :)
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Careful; I think the fee is £44!
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Hi Glen...There is a Dinah Longley b. 1902 in Benenden, Kent...her Mother is also called Dinah.
Carol
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There is also a Dorothy Langley b. 1893 in Ramsgate
Carol
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I found this too:
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Marriages Jun 1911 (>99%)
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Jessop Charlotte A Boston 7a 1059
Langley Dorothy E Boston 7a 1059
Langley Walter Boston 7a 1059
Stanley Francis M Boston 7a 1059
Carol
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Thanks for those bits Treetotal! I'm going to look through them properly over the weekend.
Yes, it's 42 Great British Pounds Redroger! :( But I've been stuck for years now and, if nothing else, at least this will give me her date of birth :)
(Or at least what she told them was her date of birth!)
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Thanks for that Redroger. Nanny Dinah is a bit of a mystery! I'm now wondering if she was married previously?! Although i can't find anything to suggest so and the marriage cert in 1929 records her as a Spinster. Mind you, they were married in a Registry Office, false home address was given, nobody recognises the names of the witnesses and everybody thought they were married 11/12 years earlier in a church! (I've posted all the details on the 'Kent Lookup Requests' board, under the posting of 'Birth/Baptism/Census lookup please - Dorothy 'Dinah' Staples/Shepherd/Langley')
Thanks alot, Glen.
Hi Glen,
does the certificate show her father's name? If so, does his surname match hers? Is it Langley or Shepherd?
(*)
Her birth is found in the June qtr of 1893 as Dinah Mahalia SHEPHERD (on the Census above she appears to be Dinah Matalia) She was baptised Dinah Mehalah SHEPHERD on the 9th August 1893 in Southwark, her parents Edwin Thomas (a printer) and Ellen living at 10 Paved Place Gravel? (difficult to decipher the last word of the address).
There is one other Dinah SHEPHERD - a Cotton Weaver born (and living) 1889 in Warrington, Lancashire - but there is a matching marriage for her in Warrington1912 to a DITCHFIELD
1911 Census Information Removed
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355484.0.html
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1891
Shapherd Edward 41 Head Printer's Machine Minder Clerkenwell, London 10 Paved Place Christ Church, London
Shapherd Ellen 38 Wife Holborn, London "
Shapherd Fanny 10 Daughter Scholar Southwark London
Shapherd Ellen 7 Daughter Scholar "
Shapherd William 6 Son Scholar "
Shapherd Sarah 3 Daughter
Shapherd George 1 Son
Frances William 48 Head Carman Horsted Keynes Sussex
Frances Sarah 54 Wife Holborn London
Frances William 24 Son Stateman Porter Teddington Middlesex
sylvia
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I know the feeling Glen, I have the same sort of problem with my 2XGGF, but so far despite professional help, yes that hurt £wise, I am really no further on. A scavenger hunt in early 2010 produced further information which though it's the right person completely contradicted what I had already. However, maybe a scavenger hunt on this site would help solve your problem?
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Hi Jemhay,
Her father is recorded as 'William Langley, deceased, General Labourer'.
She supposedly grew up with an Aunt in Blue Bell Hill, Kent, England. Most of the children are given five names each! And although five of the kids were boys and they were given names of other male family members, none of them had William!
The fact that she uses two maiden names, seems really strange to me.
Redroger: What's a scavenger hunt?! I'm intrigued! Maybe I need to do one!
Glen :)
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Put "Scavenger hunt" into search function on this site and you will soon get the idea.
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Here. Send Barbara a PM if you'd like to schedule a Hunt :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.0.html
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I had forgotten who the co-ordinator was. I might need one again in the near future.
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Hi All,
I should've said....
I took your advice and had a scavenger hunt done....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=535847.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=535847.0)
Kind regards,
Glen