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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: blueowl on Tuesday 22 March 11 16:09 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I am trying to get some info on the parents of a Charlotte Alice Butler who was born in Liverpool in about 1793 I believe. Her mother MAY have been a Margaret Kitchen but I'm not certain.
She married a Thomas Cullen at St Martins in the Fields, London on 2/12/1816, using that name, but later is recorded just as Alice.
I can't find her in the 1841 census, but in 1851 she was living in St Pancras (aged 58), then in 1861 aged 66 and finally in Leyton aged 78.
I believe she died in Q2 1878 in West Ham.
Any help on finding her parents would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Blueowl
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Hi
This link might help.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/index.html
There's an email address for Liverpool Records Office if you fail to find anything in the search...
I'm sure they'd try to help you if they can :).
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Many thanks, I'll give it a go.
Regards
Blueowl
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Sorry nothing to do with your original enguiry but you may not have these;
BURIAL;
Thomas CULLEN, 30 November 1834, Saint Pancras Parish, Middlesex, England
Age 40, Birth 1794
CHRISTENING;
CHARLOTTE Cullin, 25 November 1832, Old Church, St Pancras, London, England
Birth Date, 11 December 1823
Parents, THOMAS and ALICE
(Both Sources Familysearch Pilot)
If the Burial is Thomas then it puts into doubt William born c 1838's Father!
Also Christened in St John The Baptist, Margate, Kent;
MARIA WILSON Cullen, 20 January 1822 to a THOMAS/ALICE
+ THOMAS Cullen, 01 February 1824
(may not be your Thomas/Alice combo and if it is this Thomas may have died)
Trish :)
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Charlotte seems to have been baptised twice !
There's this one at St John the Evangelist, Westminster :
Bap. August 22 1824, born December 11 1823 Charlotte daughter of Thomas Cullen, gardener, and Alice of Kings Place St Pancras.
At the same church to the same couple are these other baptisms:
Thomas Matthew Cullen born Oct 24 1817, bapt Jan 31 1819 res Figo(?) Place St Pancras
Elizabeth Cullen born April 10 1820 bap April 22 1821 res Kings Place St Pancras
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The 1834 burial is for Thomas Cullen aged 40 of Kings Place; both of Charlotte's baptisms give the residence as King's Place so it does look to be the same person.
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Thanks for that ShaunJ,
I wondered if you can find the Christening of William Cullen c 1838, St Pancras, Middlesex.
Trish :)
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No, I couldn't see a baptism for William.
There is this birth registration in Q/e Sep 1838:
CULLEN William St Pancras vol 1 page 202
I am wondering if he was the son of Charlotte (or perhaps Elizabeth). It is odd that the 1851 census doesn't state the relationship of William to Alice.
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Thanks for trying and yes the 1851 Census is odd.
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Trish & Shaun, have been offline for a few days......
Yes I have the three children of Thomas and Alice (Charlotte) Cullen born between 1817 and 1823.
All baptised at St John the Evangelist, Westminster.
Thomas Matthew Cullen : b 24/10/1817, bapt 31/1/1819, abode Kings Place, St Pancras, Father Thomas (Gardener), Mother Alice.
Elizabeth Cullen : b 10/4/1820, bapt 22/2/1821, abode Kings Place, St Pancras, father Thomas (Gardener), Mother Alice.
Charlotte Cullen : b 11/12/1823 (date not particularly clear), bapt 22/8/1824, abode Kings Place, St Pancras, Father Thomas (Gardener), Mother Alice.
William Cullen "their" fourth child (albeit 15 years later which I thought was a bit unusual) from his Birth Certificate:
b 23/6/1838 at Poplar Cottage Gt College St Camden Town, Father Thomas (Gardener), Mother Alice Cullen formerly Butler.
Now if the 1834 buried Thomas Cullen is the same person, then quite clearly it's all gone pearshaped. William is my G-G-Grandfather. Thomas may not now be my G-G-G-Grandfather.
Regards
blueowl
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Oh Blueowl,
I was hoping you were not descended from William!
I dont know what to say.
Even though Thomas is the Father on the Birth Cert it looks to me that he was deceased by that time.
Trish :)
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Very late to respond to this, but I am also descended from Charlotte Alice Butler and her son William Cullen. My link is through William's daughter, Lottie Fannie Cullen, then her daughter Lottie May Moore, her son Edward Moore Beckett, and his daughter Dorothy Margaret Beckett, who was my mother.
With regard to the original query, I am also looking for this information. I have a note written by my grandmother (wife to Edward Moore Beckett), who copied this from an earlier note which I believe was written by Lottie May Moore.
"Margaret Kitchin, whose people were shipbuilders of Liverpool married 1) Mr Butler, a ship builder, the year the King of France was beheaded (1793)and had one child Alice Charlotte Butler born Apr 9th 1793. Later Margaret Butler, now widowed, went to Ireland as housekeeper to the Duke of Rutland and married Mr Maguire, the butler. They had seven daughters, all called Margaret, who died in infancy. She died in Leamington hospital through burns from a ***** of beeswax and boiling oil boiling over. Her husband died while she was in hospital.
The first daughter, Alice, married Thomas Cullen at St Martin in the Fields in 1816. She had four children. She separated from her husband and left one boy in London and went with her half-sister Eleanor Maguire to Leamington with Charlotte b 1823, James and Margaret and later on William b 1838 at either Leamington or Cheltenham (William later went to Aldburgh and became a pastry cook of note). The children were put out to nurse and mother went as a nursemaid.
Not sure how much of this can be proved...I do have two additional children for Alice, Elizabeth and Charlotte, but both of them died as young children, so that is probably why they were missed out. Alice's sister Eleanor exists as she was a witness at Alice's wedding, but beyond that I've struggled to find anything else to prove the rest of the story.
Did you ever find anything more about Alice, and how are we related, would love to know more if you are still researching.
PS I am very confident that William is not a son of Thomas as per the comments in the thread so if you know more...
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Baptism at Leamington Priors, 6th June 1830: Margaret Cullen, daughter of Thomas ( a gardener) and Ellice.
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Thanks, Sean. I had found Margaret before, but can’t seem to find her brother, James, anywhere.
Thomas Matthew Cullen 1817 St Pancras
Elizabeth Cullen 1820–1824 St Pancras
Charlotte Cullen 1823 St Pancras
James Cullen ?
Margaret Cullen 1830 Leamington - 1831 St Pancras
William Cullen 1838 Camden
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GRO Index for reply #7
Cullen, William 1838 St Pancras mother's maiden name Butler