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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: lost101 on Tuesday 22 March 11 11:17 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,after spending so much time trying to sort out my family line i have decided to throw it open to the experts due to my work at the moment in the hope that some light may be shed on the family tree.
Philippa lizzie toms born Looe 1888
we are told she married a john henry (roose-)nolan sometime before 1916(we can find no trace)
a william john roose-nolan born bere regis 1916(but birth cert names mother as phyllis roose nolan formerly toms, the toms descendants say this is the same lady)
we are then told that john henry died in the war around 1916(more on this later)
we are then told she married an edward john george in 1918,we can only find one that matches but the brides name was phyllis r nolan.
thay had a daughter in 1918,phyllis m george (mothers maiden name toms) but she was born in totnes.
then we know they moved to fleetwood where their daughter died aged 2 (1921)
we know they had another 2 children
winifred l george 1921 fleetwood
edward g george 1923 fleetwood
but,their names are actually recorded as winifred l g roose and edward g g roose,which is something we did not know until now.
Then we find a wedding in fleetwood between an edward john george and a phillipa toms in 1925!!
Now i know i have to allow for coincidences but this all seems to tie up.
The man john henry nolan did not die during the war and we are waiting for the dorset museum to get back to us on his army record(2nd oxford&bucks btn)
does this make any sense to any-one,(i know what i think)
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am trying to track the roose name from 1911 to see if i can tie any of the names up,but am only getting a list of roose from liskeard,can any-one break them into family groups?
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Marriages:
June qtr 1908
Liskeard district (includes East Looe) Vol 5c, page 133
Toms, Phillipa
Roose, Alfred
(Mitchell, Thomas John W also mentioned, but the above ties in with 1911 census)
March qtr 1925
Fylde district Vol 8e, page 983
Roose, Phillipa
George, Edward J
Births:
December 1909 Liskeard Vol 5c page 52
Roose, Phylis Ruby
September 1912 Liskeard Vol 5c page 97
Roose, Alfreda (mothers maiden name Toms)
December 1917 Poole Vol 5a page 338
Roose, Ellen M (mmn Toms)
December 1921 Fylde Vol 8e page 1048
Roose, Winifred L G (mmn Toms)
June 1923 Fylde Vol 8e page 1013
Roose, Edward G G (mmn Toms)
And a death:
September 1929 Liskeard Vol 5c, page 54
Roose, Phylis R age 19
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we have the marriage between alfred and philippa,but we dont know if it is the same lady.
the problem is that we have a wedding in 1918 to edward john george(from the toms/george family tree),now,the family story is that this was her second marriage(john henry roose-nolan being the first before 1916)if this is correct why would she use the name phyllis r.nolan to marry edward john george in 1918?
If it is correct that her first marriage was to alfred roose
Then too further complicate things we have the last 2 children being named george-roose (1921.1923 fylde)then a final marriage in 1925 between phillipa roose and edward john george in fylde
Just re-read your post above,now, my father (john henry roose-nolans grandson)says that he was told by his father (william john r nolan) that he had 3 older sisters, but they had all gone to live with other family members and he never found them again,which does seem to tie in with what you have found,but where does john henry-roose-nolan fit in to that tree?..and where did the nolan bit come from?
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Hi,
Do you have any of the marriage certificates?
Nanny Jan
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nanny jan, we can find no trace of a marriage to john henry roose-nolan, i think that their may be two different p.toms here somewhere.
The only time we see the roose-nolan bond is in 1916 when william is born in bere regis.
If kgerrad is correct then william john roose-nolan and phyllis m george(Mmn toms.totnes 1918) are missing
Mabe william was adopted from alfreds side of the family?
And phyillis m george was adopted from her second husbands family,and that is why she has the surname george?
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Hi,
Have you found Philippa on any census?
Nanny Jan
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1891 census:
Reference RG12/1812/110/40
Church End, East Looe
Toms, William T Head M 32 Boat Man
Toms, Susan P Wife F 30
Toms, Carrie Daughter F 9 Scholar
Toms, William T Son M 8 Scholar
Toms, Ada Daughter F 4 Scholar
Toms, Philippa L Daughter F 2 all born East Looe
1901 census:
Reference RG13/2195/50/34
Church End, East Looe
Toms, William T Head M 41 Fisherman
Toms, Susan P Wife F 40
Toms, William T Son M 18 Labourer
Toms, Ada Daughter F 14
Toms, Philippa L Daughter F 12
Toms, Dora Daughter F 8
Toms, Albert Son M 5
Toms, Lena Daughter F 1 all born East Looe
1911 census I am not allowed to mention (due to copyright)
All I can say is that it conforms the 1908 marriage! ;D
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The "other" marriage!
March qtr 1918
Portsmouth district vol 2b, page 1246
George, Edward J
Nolan, Phyllis R (Partners names are quoted by 1918, so we know this correct!)
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so this other marriage (1918)is not the same person? that would explain some things,so,the family have it wrong and we should be following the phyllis r nolan from 1918 as she is obviously john henrys mother,but....she is formerly a toms according to the birth cert
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The birth you are referring to is:
September qtr 1916
Wareham district vol 5a, page 461
Nolan, William J mmn Toms
And also
Roose-Nolan William J mmn Toms
Maybe(??) that would indicate a birth outside of the marriage?
Philippa Roose (née Toms) had a child with a Mr Nolan?
Is the father named on the birth certificate?
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yes.john henry roose-nolan.
is the phillipa toms from the 1908 marriage to alfred roose and the phyllis roose-nolan(nee toms) from the 1918 marriage to edward john george the same lady?.i doubt that,but i cant find a marriage to a roose-nolan anywhere,but they may have been related in some way.
I do believe that the phillipa toms from the 1908 marriage is the same phillipa roose from the 1925 marriage,so,is the edward john george from the 1918 marriage the same man in the 1925 marriage, it would tie up all of the childrens names.......except for the nolan name,now,as william was born at home could they have just said the mothers surname was the same as the fathers and thats where i am getting confused.
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It's all very strange!
We know that Phillipa Toms married Alfred Roose in 1908.
We know that children named Roose, with a mother's maiden name of Toms, were born in 1909, 1912, 1917, 1921 and 1923.
September 1916, William J Roose-Nolan is born.
Meanwhile, Phyllis Nolan married Edward J George married in 1918.
I cannot find any offspring of this marriage.
Neither can I find any deaths of Alfred Roose or Phyllis George?!
Then, in 1925, Phillipa Roose marries Edward J George.
So, who is John Henry Roose-Nolan?!?!
How does he fit in?
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all we know of him is that he is stated as the father of william john roose-nolan on the birth cert,he was a sgt in the 2nd oxfordshire btln (based in portland) there is a john henry nolan in the medal records but we are not sure if it is him(with help from the ox&bucks museum),oh,and he is also stated to be a tram driver(maybe opens new search possibilities?) other than that we have nothing.
i have found a phylis ruby roose (liskeard 5c 52).and a phylis mary roose(liskeard 5c 50)
now,the mother of of winifred l george and edward g george also had another daughter called phyllis may george(mmn toms) in totnes 1918 (totnes 5b 209), she died in fylde 1921(which ties in),remember,up until a few days ago we did not know that winifred and edward were born as roose at all.
i think i need to call in dan brown.
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All the John Nolan's that I could find in the Dorset area in 1911, were all born in Ireland, and were all serving in the Army.
I would hazard a guess that John was a tram-driver before joining up, and that maybe he was from Dublin?
Do you have the marriage certificate of William John Roose-Nolan?
Maybe the father mentioned on that is not quite the same? And may give a clue?
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we are still following up some things regarding john henry through the military sites and he was marked as deceased by williams marriage in 1938(electric tram car driver)