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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: cjs88 on Sunday 20 March 11 09:33 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for the CRAIGEN family in NSW.
Eliza/Elizabeth Craigen married James John SMITH in R.C.Church of St Peter & St Paul, Cooks River,NSW on 25/6/1883.
The marriage cert also says
Nurse from Cooks River
Witnesses John McGuire and Jane Craigen.
Minister James Berry
She was alive in 1913 when son John married and her husband James had deceased by 1913.
So many similiar names and SMITH as surname so have come to a halt ......does anyone recognise these names ??
cjs
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Hi cjs,
Do you know Elizabeth's parent' names and her place of birth?
Debra :)
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Hi, Would this be Eliza/Elizabeth. Possible death? She may have used her maiden name and or remarried
26770/1940 CRAIGEN ALICE ELIZABETH Father HENRY Mother JESSIE FORDHAM from NEWTOWN Sydney NSW.
Children
6442/1884 SMITH JOHN J JAMES ELIZABETH PETERSHAM
6694/1885 SMITH CHARLOTTE JAMES ELIZABETH PETERSHAM
7008/1886 SMITH JAMES M JAMES ELIZABETH ST PETERS
7283/1887 SMITH FRANK R JAMES ELIZABETH ST PETERS
9202/1887 SMITH WILLIAM H JAMES ELIZABETH NEWTOWN ?
8627/1889 SMITH THOMAS W JAMES ELIZABETH REDFERN ?
33131/1891 SMITH JOSEPH W JAMES ELIZABETH ST PETERS
Not Terribly sure of two 1889 Redfern and 1887 Newtown all close suburbs?
Neil
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There is a death recorded.
1485/1888 SMITH JAMES FATHER JAMES, MOTHER ALICE SYDNEY ???
I THINK THIS IS THE DEATH OF JAMES BORN 1886.
This tells me me mother Alice Elizabeth.
What do you guys think?
Neil
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Just speculating, but I believe that Alice Elizabeth was the wife of James CRAIGEN. The Electoral roll shows them living at Newtown up until Alice's death. James died in 1947 aged 97, late of Newtown. I think he is Elizabeth and Jane's brother.
If they are the family that arrived in 1857, parents Robert and Elizabeth, then they all appear to have little or no knowledge of family names when it came to registering deaths.
Debra :)
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Thanks for your help.
Answers
Of the 7 children listed below 5 are correct ...the nos 5and 6 are not their children ..we think. I have tracked these 5 children but really want the Craigen connection.
I have looked at James Craigen as her father:
Assisted immigrants arriving in Sydney & Newcastle, 1844-59
Came to Australia with family on the vessel "Alfred" in 1857 with parents Robert CRAIGEN (1824 Scotland---1892 in Newtown, NSW) and Elizabeth SOUDEN (1824-----1891 in Leichhardt, NSW).Married: 31 May 1849 in Inverurie, Aberdeen, Scotland
In 1857 the whole family came to Sydney/Newcastle ....Robert 33,Elizabeth 33,James 7,Anne 5,Eliza 2,and Jane born on the voyage.
I have no proof this is them as I cant find Eliza/Elizabeth's death/birth.
If she comes from the above James then the James who married Alice Elizabeth would be her brother (Dundee)
You are doing a great job so keep at it.
Carolyn
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Hi cjs,
I have looked at James Craigen as her father You mean "Robert" I think?
The main problem with trying to find Elizabeth's death is, as I mentioned, that the CRAIGEN family were not very good with names. Jane lived in NSW, but died in Victoria at her son's house. Her father's name on her death reg was given as James. The parents' deaths have wrong or no names, James the brother has no parents' names, and sister Ann has correct father but no mother's name, so it makes looking for a death reg for Elizabeth SMITH a bit harder. I think you might be better off to look for a burial and you may find them all together.
Does Elizabeth's marriage cert say she was born in Edinburgh or Aberdeen?
Where did her son John marry, do you have an address from his marriage cert?
Debra :)
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Hi cjs, Back again.
We are looking for a Birth for Eliza b 1855 somewhere in UK came to Australia in 1857. Eliza now Elizabeth marries James Smith in 1883 at Petersham Sydney.(2403/1883) They have 5 children variously at Petersham and then St Peters in Sydney from 1884 through 1891.
You would need the certificate of Marriage of James to Eliza in 1883 to ascertain parents names so you can then find correct death notice for James.
Far toooooo many to go through each one.
Eh, what other connection are you looking for if you have tracked the children of James and Eliza?
Sorry if I seem confused, it is because I am??????
Neil
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Hi there,
Re CRAIGEN in NSW I am searching for the CRAIGEN family in NSW. .....
...
I have not found many with that surname in Sydney in the 1870's or 1880's. The NSW Electorate PRE Federation would most likely be "Canterbury" if looking around Cook's River/Petersham. Females were first included 1903 NSW roll BUT it was not yet compulsory for males or females to be enrolled.
I did notice
1873 Sands Directory has J. Craigen, Toll-keeper, Abattoir Road Pyr (Pyrmont)
1877 Sands Dir has Joseph Craigen, bridge Tollhouse, Abattoir rd
I presume this would be the toll house over the old Pyrmont Bridge Road linking Pyrmont with Sydney CBD and over which much of the quarried sandstone from the Saunders Quarries was carted along with the fruit and vegies for Paddy's Markets. The old bridge was opened in 1858, and replaced around Federation times.
Of course, no way of telling from the directory entries if that Joseph Craigen was connected to "your" Eliza/beth Craigen.
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
Have you followed up on Jane Craigen, witness to Eliza's marriage?
NSW BDM online index shows a marriage for a Jane Craigen to Henry F HANKIN in 1886, and it was registered at in the district of St Peters, (ref 2777/1886) ... Perhaps Jane and Eliza were sisters? The 1886 m.c. should have details for Jane's parents ;) and it should be easier to follow up on a Mrs Henry Hankin rather than a Mrs James Smith.
Cheers, JM
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Just speculating, but I believe that Alice Elizabeth was the wife of James CRAIGEN. The Electoral roll shows them living at Newtown up until Alice's death. James died in 1947 aged 97, late of Newtown. I think he is Elizabeth and Jane's brother.
If they are the family that arrived in 1857, parents Robert and Elizabeth, then they all appear to have little or no knowledge of family names when it came to registering deaths.
Debra :)
Sands Directory James CRAIGEN
1900 Jas Craigen, 39 Park St HURSTVILLE ...
1905 Jas Craigen, 124 Station St NEWTOWN.
1909, 1910 James Craigen at 124 Station St NEWTOWN
Cannot see him on 1903 NSW Electoral Roll in either of the electorates covering those two Sydney suburbs.
Cheers, JM
ps CANNOT see either Alice or James CRAIGEN on 1903 Electoral roll....
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Jane lived in NSW, but died in Victoria at her son's house. Her father's name on her death reg was given as James.
Debra :)
Jane HANKIN died in Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbx/
Debra :)
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Thanks again everyone.
Yes Dundee I am guessing Robert as father not James.
I do have marriage cert for Craigen ?Smith but no parents listed at all only what I said earlier.
I have the Children of Smith/Craigen but want the Craigen line (Neil).
This is what I have on Jane Craigen (Hankin)
Jane (1857-------Victoria)
Jane Craigen Marriage to Henry F HANKIN (----1893 Marine) at St Peters in 1886
M-2777/1886 HANKIN HENRY F CRAIGEN JANE ST PETERS
D-16014/1893 HANKIN HENRY ELIZA MARINE
So I guess I could buy their certificates but unsure if even related.
Carolyn
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Re Craigen= Smith m.c.
from your OP R.C.Church of St Peter & St Paul, Cooks River,NSW on 25/6/1883
This was a R C marriage, so it is likely that the clergy declined to forward ALL the info on their parish register to the NSW BDM Reg Gen. Have you contacted the local parish archivist seeking Eliza's parents names? You have the exact date for their archivist to easily access the original records, presuming these are extant (they should be, there should have been at least two sets of records held at the original church, one within the church building and one with the parish clerk). http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
The task of reconciling the Church Records for marriages between 1856 and 1895 was never finalised. Some of the Registry's marriage records from these years still have missing information.
(I add, and some marriages are not listed at all on the index, but when checking local parish records these can be found, e.g. I found one of my NSW forebears marriage in the local parish records, and then the archivist and I established that NONE of the around 800 marriages had made it to the NSW BDM online index. That's being sorted at present ;) )
EDIT TO ADD, it was and still is a requirement that the names of the parents of the bride and groom are recorded by the clergy conducting the marriage... ! I apologise for not thinking this issue through when I first read your post.
Cheers, JM