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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Yegvard on Thursday 21 April 05 21:51 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm trying to put families in to specific houses around The Green in Kings Norton. Time frame is around 1840 - 1851. Does anyone have any details of specific properties in relation to any other property? Perhaps a deed or a will.
I have certain families located in certain groups of houses, but I'm trying to do better than that. There seemed to be a lot of moving so some one must have some info.
Cheers
Mike
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if you contact whsmith (booksellers) they do a localised history book about the green kings norton with lots of photos. i live 2miles from the green. another contact is our local celebrity historian carl chinn. he is very well known for his local historical ramblings in the local sunday paper called the sunday mercury and a daily paper called the birmingham mail (formerly the evening mail). Carl might have his own web site.
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Hi
I have just tried to look up "The Green" in the '61 census on 192.com but it doesn't recognize it as an address. There are quite a few ****** Green type address's so do you have another name to go with Green?
I know you want earlier but having some names from '61 may help to locate it in the '51 census
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Hi Both,
I already have both photographic books on Kings Norton. And have trawled the libraries already, and have a list of photos not in the books.
I have a copy of the Tithe map and the apportionment for the actual village. It is the actual village which is known as The Green. The plan was to put everyone from the 1841 census into an actual house and then have a photo or a sketch of the building. :D
The problem is that subsequent censuses are less and less helpful. :-\
And there appears to be a above average rate of moving between houses. ??? Presumably rented accommodation.
Hence my request for property information. I have a complete list of householders from 1841, 1851, 1871 & 1881 and good contacts for the 1861, where needed. Studying the different censuses the enumerators started at different points and went different ways around The Green!
For those with an interest in Kings Norton I suggest doing a Google search on "Kings Norton" & "The Green" or "Saracens Head" and then clicking on Image at the top of the screen.
Mike
P.S. The reason for all this was a family HANDS living there. They had the house on the corner of The Green, now Lloyds Bank. They are related to the CLULEEs and the PRITCHETTs. Anyone out there?
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the possible reason for a high turnover in accommodation is that a canal runs just off the green and goes alongside the Travellers Inn and under Lazy Hill, so the area may have been used by waterfolk.
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hi ya.....my name is Jan......from ESSEX
SUMMERFIELD........Mary and John parents William
and Sarah........John was born in 1818......long ago....
but had farm in Hay Green.....Northfield, in Kings Norton
any old maps or sites that are free I can check this out...
Is there a town hall at Kings Norton ?
How can I find who owned what fields in 1881
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Hi Bobblehat,
You could be lucky. The 1873 Returns for Landowners in Worcestershire are indexed on line and free. Go to http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/datafiles/landtaxsearch.html
Enter Summerfield and submit. Your relly could be quite wealthy.
To see the Tithe Map (around 1838) you'll have to go to Birmingham Central Library. The National Archives may also have a copy. However, it's not a lot of use without the Tithe Apportionments, which gives the owner, field number, value of income, and occupier - sometimes. A few years ago somebody redrew a large Tithe Map of Kings Norton, can't remember it's location is though. Ask at Kings Norton library.
The First series of OS maps is online & free http://www.old-maps.co.uk/, but is fairly low quality. Quick, but encourages you to purchase high quality prints.
There are some records in Kings Norton Library, but most are in Birmingham. (Naturally just a few Kings Norton records are in Worcester, since KN used to be in Worcestershire.) And diocesan records are in Worcester.
Hope that helps
Mike
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you are brilliant.....good man....hope to speak more to you mike....JAN
Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses, please use the PM system to exchange personal information
how do u know all this ? bly
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DO U KNOW....OLDHAM COTTAGES NORTHFIELD KINGS
NORTON ? PLEASE
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My great-grandmother had an illegitimate son, John Gwilliam who was a blacksmith. I understand that his forge was on the Green at Kings Norton. Does anyone have any information on this?
Rob.
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Rob,
I'm not certain, but I think there was a forge on the southwest corner of The Green, sort of opposite the old workhouse. (Wendy Pearson's book makes reference wheelwrighting and blacksmithery [Shephard's] next to the Bull's Head. So I may be wrong, but you don't give a time frame.)
There certainly was a Blacksmiths in the 1840s on Wharf Lane (later Road). Wendy also states that Shephard's moved later to the Alpha Farm on Wharf Road.
Regards
Mike
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Hi Mike,
thanks for your prompt reply. I think that John Gwilliam was born about 1846/7., so he would have been at the forge after about 1865. He did his apprenticeship in Defford with John Roper. He married Ellen, b. 1848 and had 6 children. He was shown on the 1881 census as living at "The Village, Kings Norton" on the 1881 census . Whether he owned the forge or merely worked there, I don't know. It's a part of the family I haven't got round to investigating too deeply as yet. Interesting that the workhouse was near to the green as I have found a young child named Phillips (my family name) in the workhouse in 1881 - could be a relative! More research to carry out - lovely!!
Rob.
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thanks I found OLDHAM COTTAGES....NORTHFIELD....WHERE you said....
brilliant................Jan
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the email from bobblehat ...Jan......was for YEGVARD.....OOPS SORRY SPELT
wrong.......
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Hi Mike,
thanks for your prompt reply. I think that John Gwilliam was born about 1846/7., so he would have been at the forge after about 1865. He did his apprenticeship in Defford with John Roper. He married Ellen, b. 1848 and had 6 children. He was shown on the 1881 census as living at "The Village, Kings Norton" on the 1881 census . Whether he owned the forge or merely worked there, I don't know. It's a part of the family I haven't got round to investigating too deeply as yet. Interesting that the workhouse was near to the green as I have found a young child named Phillips (my family name) in the workhouse in 1881 - could be a relative! More research to carry out - lovely!!
Rob.
Rob,
My name is Nancy Kiser and I am the volunteer administrator of a Phillips DNA project and one-name study. We have a descendant of Henry Beynon Gwilliam/Phillips who was born 7 May 1835 in Shropshire in the project. This person thought he was the descendant of Eliza Beynon and a man named Charles Gwilliam, but his yDNA matches Phillips Family Group 17, which can be viewed at this link: http://www.phillipsdnaproject.com/ylineage-main/pedigrees-by-family-group/70-family-group-17
It is known that Eliza Beynon became the wife (possibly common law) of a man named Thomas Phillips after the birth of Henry, so it is possible (even likely, it seems to me) that Thomas was the father of Henry, although for some reason Eliza claimed the father was Charles Gwilliam.
It would be very interesting to see if your yDNA matches that of Phillips Family Group 17. The Phillips DNA project is offering a free DNA test to any man named Phillips who lives in the UK and can supply a five generation Phillips lineage. Please contact me if you are interested in participating.
Sincerely,
Nancy Kiser
Volunteer administrator
Phillips DNA Project and One-Name Study
www.phillipsdnaproject.com
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I can't find it at the moment, but I have, somewhere, a booklet which I think is called 'A Walk around The Green'. If I remember correctly, it looks at the history of each property in turn and it may be of use to you, if you haven't seen it already.
Maybe they would have a copy in Birmingham Central Library, or maybe on The Green, somewhere.
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Hi
Thanks for this. Can you remember as to what time period the booklet was set?
Cheers
Mike
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Hi
It may well have been earlier than the dates that you are interested in.
If I find it, I'll let you know.
Good luck!
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Hi, if you're still looking into this, do you have any info on a Davis family? I'm pretty certain my Davis's were at least near the Green around that time period. Their entry on the 1841 census just says 'The Village'. William Davis was a carpenter. His widow and children were in the same area in 1851 and 61. His son William Davis married Martha Haslum, who after his untimely death in 1869 (crushed by the flywheel at one of the paper mills) married James Rudge... and his niece Clara was still living in their house on the Green in the 1950s, my dad clearly remembers visiting her there! It may even have been the same house the entire time, but I s'pose that's unlikely. I'd love to know which house it was in the 1840s/50s.
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Hi, Illumina,
Thanks for your e-mail re: the Green at Kings Norton. Unfortunately, I didn't persue the details any further. Have you tried typing in on Google 'The Green, Kings Norton'? Very often, these websites cough up odd details.
I must get down to following John Gwilliam further. If I find anything I will let you know.
Regards,
Rob
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Hi, again,
Have just been browsing through websites re. Kings Norton and found two questions:
William Davis & Mary Ann (ne Smith) had 4 children: Tracy, b 1825, Amelia,b. 1829, William, b. 1836 & Mary Ann, b. 1841. Parents probably born in Bromsgrove.
William Davis Engine driver, etc) married Martha Haslum at St. Phillips, Birmingham. Four children born at Kings Norton, William, Ann, Thomas and Jesse. William died in 1859, age 33yrs, when Jesse was 3 months old. Jesse was Poster's great-grandfather. You may have posted this on Curious Fox
Rob.
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Hi,
Although William DAVIS is not listed in the Tithe Applotments, his next door neighbour, Thomas LEWIS a shoeing smith, according to the 1841, is. So if we assume nobody moved house, it looks like this:
In a property coded plot 2351, and owned by William Jones, lived William DAVIS. The house probably had a small garden, the length of which was 4 or 5 times the depth of the house. Although the 1841 says "The Village", I am reasonably certain that on this census "The Village" included Wharf Road.
Very approximately where The Green Nursing Home is now.
In 1871 there's a Frederick HASLAM listed in Wharf Road.
Hope that helps.
Mike
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Hi Rob, yes, both of those are me!
Mike, many thanks for checking that out. Frederick Haslum was my Martha Haslum's brother - he moved to Kings Norton some time between 1861 and 1868.