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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: mojo1970 on Saturday 19 March 11 12:36 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Have a problem in that my great grandfather James Morrow (roden st, Belfast, 1911 census) was married to a Letitia Morrow (maiden name is also Morrow). They were married in 1904 but I couldn't find a Letitia Morrow from Co. Armagh. I did find one from Antrim (Father Robert, Mother Rose) & one from Donegal (father John, Mother Letitia). One Letitia is married in 1897 to a William Morrow in Fermanagh, and the other to James Morrow in 1904. As Letitia Morrow from Donegal is living at home with her parents in the 1901 census I can only presume that she is the one married in 1904. Is there any way to confirm if this is correct?
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Hi,
One slight bit of confirmation is that when Letitia married James Morrow she gave her father's name as John which ties in with the Donegal 1901 census. However I cannot explain the birth in Donegal/Armagh discrepency.
Regards
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Hi, Thanks for this. I couldn't find her fathers name on marriage search (familysearch) and that is where I was getting confused. So thank you very much for this information!
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Hi, I have been updating my research on my family genealogy and am in touch with someone in New Zealand. They have stated the connection is a Henry Morrow born 02/06/1858 in Donegal. On his marriage certificate to Ellen Robinson it states his father as John Morrow, Grouselodge which I believe is around Pettigo, Donegal. Henry is supposed to be a brother of my g-grandmother Letitia Morrow with the family in Grousehall, Donegal in the 1901 census. My research shows siblings of Letitia as Johnston, Mary and James (I believe twins) William and Abraham. Can anyone confirm if Henry is son of John and Letitia Morrow (nee Johnston). Also, is Grouselodge as on Henry's marriage Certificate the same place as Grousehall where my gg-grandparents family are in the 1901 and 1911 census?
Many thanks
Terry
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Also, is Grouselodge as on Henry's marriage Certificate the same place as Grousehall where my gg-grandparents family are in the 1901 and 1911 census?
Grousehall is a townland in the Civil Parish of Templecarn. It's north-east of the village of Pettigo.
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/tirhugh/templecarn/grousehall/grousehall/
Grouse Lodge was probably close to, or in the townland of Cashelenny and therefore east of Grousehall (or in Grousehall itself).
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/tirhugh/templecarn/grousehall/cashelenny/
Its original construction was probably funded or partially funded by some of the owners of the larger houses in the area including Grouse Lodge and Tievemore House to the south-west, both now ruinous.
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/40910201/cashelenny-church-of-ireland-church-cashelenny-county-donegal
KG
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Hi, Have a problem in that my great grandfather James Morrow (roden st, Belfast, 1911 census) was married to a Letitia Morrow (maiden name is also Morrow). They were married in 1904 but I couldn't find a Letitia Morrow from Co. Armagh. I did find one from Antrim (Father Robert, Mother Rose) & one from Donegal (father John, Mother Letitia). One Letitia is married in 1897 to a William Morrow in Fermanagh, and the other to James Morrow in 1904. As Letitia Morrow from Donegal is living at home with her parents in the 1901 census I can only presume that she is the one married in 1904. Is there any way to confirm if this is correct?
Did you ever confirm this?
Since your initial query, the actual GRO marriage registrations have been put online, which will show her father's name and occupation.
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Here is the marriage of James Morrow and Letitia Morrow, 1904. Her father is John Morrow deceased, a Carpenter
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10205/5713764.pdf
The witnesses are Theophilus and Esther Heasley
Here is the marriage of Theophilus Heasley and Esther Morrow - 1902
Her father is John Morrow, deceased, a Carpenter and a witness is Letitia Morrow.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10270/5737694.pdf
1901 census - Esther and Letitia Morrow
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s/Clifford_Street/982164/
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A possibility for the Rachel Morrow's birth (the younger sister inn1901 census), albeit age slightly out:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/43d77210105377
The father is a John, but a weaver rather than carpenter.
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Not Armagh though :-\
I couldn’t find much earlier at all and since then, have seen a tree which shows Lucenda Morrow (see birth below ) as Esther Lucinda (Essie) Morrow with a father, John, a Carpenter.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03094/2134614.pdf
The marriage to Theophilus Hearsley is detailed on the tree but the Morrow sisters are not. There are two Finnegan half sisters so as yet, it is not a reliable source.
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I may have spoken too soon ::)
I just searched ‘Letitia’ about 1880 and there is this entry:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02923/2071137.pdf
Letitia - mother Mary Finnegan, formerly Johnston, Portadown.
There is also Rachel Finnigan here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02820/2034679.pdf
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This looks like the Morrow - Finegan (a.k.a Johnston) marriage in 1893:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10614/5866892.pdf
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This looks like the Morrow - Finegan (a.k.a Johnston) marriage in 1893:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10614/5866892.pdf
And the previous Finnegan - Johnston marriage in 1854 (note the bride's father is consistent - Lewis Johnston):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1854/09474/5433416.pdf
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Just a possibility for a John Finnegan death in 1872 (not conclusive):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020721/7270204.pdf
So the working theory is that Mary Johnston married John Finegan in 1854 (BTW, the couple had several children), then John died in 1872, widow Mary then had three daughters out of wedlock, before marrying John Morrow in 1893.
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... So the working theory is that Mary Johnston married John Finegan in 1854 (BTW, the couple had several children), then John died in 1872, widow Mary then had three daughters out of wedlock, before marrying John Morrow in 1893.
Children to parents John Finnegan and Mary Johnston post civil registration of births, the last one slots in time wise with that 1872 death of a John Finnegan in 1872:
- John b. 1866:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03546/2305345.pdf
- Mary Jane b. 1869:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03377/2238068.pdf
- Sarah b. 1871:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03266/2197003.pdf
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I was getting there too gaffy.
It’s a bit complicated now. :)
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I could see where you were going at reply #9. I haven't found a birth yet for Esther (Lucinda?)
Anyhow, I've hit a hiatus now, so I think I'll head out for my daily lockdown walk... :)
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Here she is - Lucenda Morrow
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03094/2134614.pdf
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Hi all, This has thrown a spanner in the works :o ;D ;D
I couldn't understand how the link came up with Letitia in Belfast in 1901 and put the Co Armagh on the 1911 census down to a mistake. It was the spelling of Letitia meant that I never saw this census record of the 3 sisters. From what I have read here, it looks as though the Letitia Morrow is from Co Armagh after all. Think my family tree will need to be changed from the Letitia Morrow (b 1880) point backwards
By a strange coincidence though, the Letitia Morrow (Donegal) who I had thought was my gg-grandmother was a Letitia Johnston (b 1831) married to a John Morrow (1827-1902)and whose famiy background I believe to be from the Dromore area, not far from Lurgan and John Finnegan's address at time of his death.
All I can say is thank you so much for this information.
Regards
Terry
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I hope it helps.
Gaffy has outlined the possible scenario.
It is odd though.
Lucenda was registered as Morrow and John was described as a Carpenter - as on the marriage certificates.
Then the two girls were registered as Finnegan which, if they were John Morrow’s girls, Mary would still be Finnegan so that could be in order.
The marriage though between Mary and John Morrow shows him as a Weaver :-\
Perhaps he was married and when his wife died, he was free to marry Mary.
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Hi, Sorry to throw another spanner in the works. Just thought from now on double-check everything. So I just checked the three Finnegan births on Family Search and found John 1866, Mary Jane 1869, parents names John Finnegan & Mary Johnston Finnegan but in Lurgan, County Westmeath. Also further down a birth record for Sarah Finnegan b 1872 - d 1896. Strange as this Lurgan is about 40 minutes drive away from where I live now...in County Offaly.
Is this just a realy strange coincidence or should it read Lurgan, County Armagh?
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The links to the birth records in gaffy’s reply #13 are Lurgan, Armagh.
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Hi, Sorry to throw another spanner in the works. Just thought from now on double-check everything. So I just checked the three Finnegan births on Family Search and found John 1866, Mary Jane 1869, parents names John Finnegan & Mary Johnston Finnegan but in Lurgan, County Westmeath. Also further down a birth record for Sarah Finnegan b 1872 - d 1896. Strange as this Lurgan is about 40 minutes drive away from where I live now...in County Offaly.
Is this just a realy strange coincidence or should it read Lurgan, County Armagh?
Don't worry about the geographical locations in FamilySearch database just go by the actual records (Irish Genealogy). FS moved Ballymoney, Co. Antrim to County Cork years ago but lately the locations seem to be really strange nd incorrect.
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Is this possibly John Morrow's death and if so, was the marriage precipitated by deteriorating health (look at duration of illness)? Pure speculation of course.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05970/4697187.pdf
This man was no spring chicken, but Mary herself must have been heading towards 60 at that point.
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That looks interesting.
There is this Mary in 1901. Has Obin Street come up before in a record?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Portadown_Urban/Obin_Street/1030325/
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Just also noticed a son Thomas born to John Finegan and Mary Johnston in 1868:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03446/2265118.pdf
Presumably there may be several older siblings in that decade between John and Mary's marriage and the introduction of civil registration of births...
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That looks interesting.
There is this Mary in 1901. Has Obin Street come up before in a record?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Portadown_Urban/Obin_Street/1030325/
It has indeed, in the birth registration you found for 'Lucenda' Morrow. The mother in that record was described as Mary Johnston, with 'formerly' stroked out... which is significant..
So what is the likely story here? Is it that after John Finegan died in 1872, Mary (Johnston) Finegan had 3 daughters out of wedlock with John Morrow, before eventually marrying him in 1893 as his health failed? Certainly an interesting story.
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Hi, This makes interesting reading and from what you have found certainly seems like this Lititia Morrow is my g-grandmother. Checked to see where Clifford Street was in 1901 and it ran from Roden St to Magentic St. James and Letitia (correct spelling) are living at 86 Roden Street in 1911. What's the chances of a connection between Mary Johnston and Letitia Johnston from Donegal....that would be an intersting twist!! Thank you so much for all your help
Regards
Terry
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Just some thoughts.
If that is Mary in 1901 she was born Armagh.
I wondered about a connection between John Morrow (father Felix) and James Morrow (husband to Letitia) - his father James.
Morrow, Johnston and even Letitia are popular names in the area so could be connected or not. :-\
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Hi, As far as I know James Morrow's (husband to Letitia) father is James Morrow and mother was Sarah Jane ? James is on the 1901 census with Sarah and Annie. My research shows Sarah Jane McCord as a possible mothers maiden name although following the mistake I made between Letitia/Lititia will triple check everything I've researched.
Felix is an unusual name though.
Regards
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There was Lewis Johnston who died on 30 March 1864 at a reported age of 72, the informant was his widow Ann Johnston, the address is 'Ballinagone', which the 'Placenamesni' website has as a known form of Ballynagowan townland, in Drumcree civil parish:
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/ballynagowan/
Lewis Johnston isn't a common name, and appears as the father in the following marriages for folk from Timakeel (the same address as for Mary in her 1854 marriage to John Finnegan):
- Richard Johnston and Rachel McDonnell in 1849:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09373/5394708.pdf
- Anne Jane Johnston and John Ligate in 1850:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1850/09393/5402430.pdf
- Lewis Johnston and Anne Haw in 1853:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09454/5425476.pdf
Timakeel:
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/timakeel/
There was also a marriage of a Susan Johnston of Corcrain to a James Healey in 1876, her father listed as Lewis Johnston, one of the witnesses was a Mary Finnegan:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11175/8094400.pdf
Corcrain:
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/drumcree/corcrain/
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Wonder if this is Felix Morrow.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1851/Antrim/Upper_Massereene/Ballinderry/Ballymacraven/4/
Also there is a tax assessment in 1827 for a Felix Morrow - Tullylish, Lurgan
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Hi,
My final piece of research for the week I think. Could someone take a look at the marriage of James Morrow and Sarah Jane McCord 16th June 1872. I can't make out parents names, profession or address. Can anyone help?
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It is 1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11269/8132836.pdf
James Morrow, 30 yrs Sailor/Tailor ??? father John Morrow, Flax Dresser
Sarah Jane McCord, 28 yrs, father, John McCord, Tanner
Both are living in Sackville Street.
Do you have a birth for James and his sisters with these parents?
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James Morrow, 30 yrs Sailor/Tailor ??? father John Morrow, Flax Dresser
Sarah Jane McCord, 28 yrs, father, John McCord, Tanner
Both are living in Sackville Street.
Think it's Tailor - compare with 'T' in Tanner. 'S' in Sackville very different.
He's living at No 28, she at No 18.
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Yes it is.
Here is son George b 1877 - father is a Tailor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03014/2104450.pdf
Added
James - 1875
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03105/2138760.pdf
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Death of Sarah Jane Morrow - widow of James, a Cutter (occupation of father, fits with marriage to Letitia)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05783/4635476.pdf
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Hi,
I found the death registration for Sarah Jane Morrow which matched the other information that I have gathered.
I found James Morrow (tailor) married to Sarah Jane McCord living at 10 Sackville St. Confirmed births:
- Sarah b. 05/07/1873 (note - Sarah Jane Wilson present at birth of 26 Sackville St.)
- James b. 09/04/1875
- George b. 16/04/1877
- Mary Eliza b. 30/04/1878 and the family now living at 37 Derry St.
- John b. 04/03/1880
Some of my distant cousins have an Annie Morrow but I did not find any birth record. They also have Sarah and Annie in Canada with Acheson/Aiken as Annie's married name.
Regards
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Hi, I just want to say thank you for all your help on the research of my great-grandmother, it has been an eye opener into clarifying names and DOB through official records. I managed to get all the relevant certificates to clarify the various family lines and addresses etc.
Only one aspect that has left me baffled!! By the birth records that I have obtained James Morrow was born in 1875 with his brother John born in 1880. Census 1901, marriage cert 1904 and death cert 1943 all have James aged 21/24/63 which places his birth in 1880 but birth cert states 1875. I'm wondering how there could be a mix up between James and John's birth records?
Again many thanks!!
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The births/ages don’t match up with Sarah 1873/ 25 in census
Do you have Annie’s birth?
I wonder if the census family is your family? James fits with occupation but not age. :-\
I am not saying he is not, but it isn’t quite certain.
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Hi,
That's the reason I checked and through certificates I discovered James's age as 24 in marriage cert 1904 and death cert 1943 aged 63 placing his birth in 1880, even if the 1901 census in not him, I can confirm that he is in the 1911 census at 86 Roden St, again age 31 placing his year of birth in 1880.
I am unsure about Sarah, James, and Annie in the 1901 census in Harrybrook St as I could not find an Annie birth record to James Morrow and Sarah Jane McCord. Also, Sarah emigrated to Canada and I found an emigration record of a Sarah Morrow in 1900, again unsure if this is Sarah, James' sister.
Also, discovered a little more on the Heasily connection. Marriage cert of James and Lititia has them living at 489 Donegal Road, the home address of Esther, Lititia's sister.
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Hi,
Just to let you all know that through various certificates of births and marriages I have confirmation of my Morrow family from James Morrow and Sarah Jane McCord. Still looking for birth registration for James b. circa 1843 and his father John b circa 1824.
What do I know.....
1868 - John McCord lives at 10 Sackville Street but no sign of John Morrow (Flax Dresser) or his son James (Tailor) in Belfast ......Ref 1868 street directory
1870 - John McCord at 10 Sackville St and John Morrow (Flax Dresser) at 28 Sackville St......ref 1870 street directory
1873 - 1st Child of James Morrow and Sarah Jane McCord (Sarah) born, father James Morrow (tailor) 10 Sackville St. Present at birth Sarah Jane Wilson 26 Sackville St (I presume mistake and more likely 28) .....ref Sarah Morrow's birth certificate. Also, James Morrow and Sarah Jane McCord married fathers John Morrow and John McCord. Adresses 28 and 10 Sackville Street
1877 - James Morrow (tailor) 10 Sackville St and no sign of John Morrow.
1880 - James and Sarah has moved to 37 Derry Street and this address is on birth certs of the children.
It looks as though John Morrow Jnr born circa 1842 is a brother of James and is also a flax dresser. I believe he is the John Morrow (d.1917) mentioned in the Maybole thread.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=848781.msg7161008#msg7161008
In 1901 he is also on John senior's death cert and census in Christopher Street, 1911 census in Cambrai St, and a Union Workhouse at the time of his death in 1917...never married.
Some questions that might be useful going forward..
Who is Sarah Jane Wilson named as "present at birth" Sarah's birth cert in 1873?
James lives at 10 Sackville St from at least 1873...James and Sarah Jane McCord married in 1873. There is a John McCord death 2nd May 1870 but address is 114 Boundary Street but this not on the street directory. In 1900 there is a John Morrow (flax dresser) at 17 Boundary Street. Can't be sure if this is John Morrow senior or junior.
Research has come up with Flax growers James and Thomas Morrow in County Down between Banbridge and Newry. By coincidence there is a John MCord married to a Sarah ? who have a daughter Sarah born in 1845...same year as Sarah Jane McCord. This is I believe Moira area of County Down.
Hope to hear from anyone who may have further information on any of this but after all the research, it still leaves me still searching for places of birth for James and John. If I find anything more on my gg-grandfather James or my ggg-grandfather John I will start a new thread. Many many thanks to all of you who have helped me on this and the Maybole thread.
Kindest regards
Mojo
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Still looking for birth registration for James b. circa 1843 and his father John b circa 1824.
Civil registration of births only started in 1864 so those 2 will not have birth certificates. If you are luckily you might find baptisms somewhere but many church records don't go back that far (and of those that do not all are online).
Present at birth Sarah Jane Wilson 26 Sackville St (I presume mistake and more likely 28)
Informant may have been a neighbour.
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Hi, I know it's been a while but recently after a chat with my Dad's 1st cousin came up with new information on the Morrow family. Also some help on the Belfast forum and some more research it looks as though I may have my Morrow family.
John Morrow b circa 1824 married Mary ? b circa 1825. Looks like they lived at the following:
20 Artillery St, Belfast
28 Sackville St, Belfast
17 North Boundary St, Belfast
Children
William 1839; John 1842; James 1843; Margaret Jane 1847; Christopher 1850; Mary ?; Andrew 1854.
There is also the possibility of a Hugh Morrow but not sure where he fits in. Also a Samuel who my Dad's cousin seems to have been told about.
As for John and Mary, I found a record of John Morrow marriage to a Maria Cummins in Dromore 1839. Again would be close to the McCord family in Moira and the Morrow links to that area of County Down but can't be sure. Again thank you for the previous information provided.
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John Morrow b circa 1824 married Mary ? b circa 1825. Looks like they lived at the following:
Children
William 1839; John 1842; James 1843; Margaret Jane 1847; Christopher 1850; Mary ?; Andrew 1854.
If eldest child was born 1839 then parents John & Mary are most likely born before 1824/1825.
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John Morrow b circa 1824 married Mary ? b circa 1825. Looks like they lived at the following:
Children
William 1839; John 1842; James 1843; Margaret Jane 1847; Christopher 1850; Mary ?; Andrew 1854.
If eldest child was born 1839 then parents John & Mary are most likely born before 1824/1825.
Amen!