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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Mogsmum on Friday 18 March 11 12:50 GMT (UK)
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Only relatively recently did I discover that if a child died, it was not uncommon for a subsequent child to be given the same name.
Knowing this, suddenly made clear why some families appeared to have two children with exactly the same names.
I'm sure it's common knowledge to most people, but it took me a while to find out and I thought it might assist a newcomer.
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Hi,
A bit more info on this one.
The already named child does not have to be dead to have a sibling of the same name. I came across this with two Johns in the 1500/1600s who I had assumed must be cousins but I then found a Will from their mother in 1567, I think it was, wherein she left property to her son John the elder and John the younger, amongst others. I think it must to do with the custom of naming children after grandparents. Perhaps both were John in that case but as it is so early in he records I can't prove this.
Daveb
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One of my ancestors had 4 children named after their father and all died. I would have given up after 2.
Irene
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I have a situation where a man, let's call him George for the sake of ease, married a woman called Eliza and they had several children, the oldest of whom was called George. Ok so far....
Eliza died and George senior married again, this time to a woman called Ellen, who was very much younger than he was. They also had several children, one of whom was, yet again, called George.
So we now have three Georges - one father, two sons.
Then, some time in the 1890s, George Snr dies.
In the 1901 census, what do we find but the elder of the two sons named George as head of household with his stepmother, Ellen, named as his wife! By 1911, they are still together, with shed loads more children, mercifully none of whom is called George..
It took me more than a little while to work that one out and I still haven't managed to find a way of entering the children of Ellen and the younger George on to my tree! ??? ???
Jen
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There is also the case, I'm told, where a tenant farmer has 'manor rights' as long as the tenancy stays in the one name.
The family then have to make sure they have a surviving son of the correct name!!!
In my dad's family, when he and Mum married, mum told me she got all sorts of scolds from dad's family for calling my older brother (recently deceased) Robert, because "it's not a family name".
When I started doing the FH, what did I find but that Dad's grandparents had not one, not two, but three sons called Robert, until they managed to have the last one live - until he was 90, as it turned out. So much for 'not a family name' !!
Dawn M
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One of my ancestors had 4 children named after their father and all died. I would have given up after 2.
One of my something x g.grandfathers (not got my tree handy at the moment) had 2 older brothers who died, so he was the 3rd William. Good job his parents didn't give up after 2, or I wouldn't be here. ::)
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Same here Lizzie,
Jane Raitt born 1837 - I ( and others researching this family) presume she died.
Jane Raitt, same parents, born 1849 - my 2 x ggrandmother.
Mind, I suppose this could be yet another case of two living girls with the same name? ???
Jen
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Re-marriages should be banned!
One of mine married, had 4 children before his wife died.
He then married a widow, who brought with her, her 3 natural children, plus the 5 children she'd 'inherited' from her 1st husband (who was a widower when she'd married him).
With me so far? :D
They then went on to have a further 4 children - giving him a grand total of 16 for whom he was responsible - the felony compounded because George, Henry, Eliza, Mary-Ann, Frances Ann and/or Ann Frances were popular names (although I thank heaven for dear old Isiah)!
No wonder I have people in my tree who could easily appear to have 4 surnames - unless you read the notes ::)
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Hi,
Except from having 2 children with the same name (after death) I have also had in two separate sides of the family an Eliza & Elizabeth as children without any of them dying.
Sharon
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My gr father, Robert Henry b. 1874, was the 2nd to be named thus.The first R.H. was b. 1873 and died age 1. 3rd baby Hugh Alexander b. and d. 1876.
Next H.A. b. and lived in 1876. 5th and 6th babies were called William,one died and one lived! Puzzled me for some time 8)
Kooky
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Billyblue---- I wonder if the name Robert was so sad for them after other babies named Robert
had died that they were superstitious about the name and fearful for the new baby.
If so it was kind of them to give another reason to the young mum, so as not to worry her.
It is a possibility. Viktoria.
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Thanks for the nice sentiment Viktoria, but no.
Some of dad's siblings hadn't talked to us for years because of this!!
Everyone in the family was surprised when I unearthed all these Roberts.
:D ::)
Dawn M
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I have also had in two separate sides of the family an Eliza & Elizabeth as children without any of them dying.
One of my 2 x g.grandfather's had 3 children called Eliza, Elizabeth and guess what Eliza Elizabeth. What was that all about. Neither his wife nor mother were called Elizabeth or any similar name. At least the sons all had different names.
Lizzie
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I have a family with two Ellens, one of which I knew nothing about until I found the grave and headstone of the parents where they were both listed. Ellen 1, born Q4 1851, died June 1860, Ellen 2 born Q1 1862, died Dec 1874.
So sad to think they lost them both so young, but the eldest son went on to name one of his daughters Ellen a few years later.
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As others have mentioned, I've got a fair few large families where one of the elder children has died and a younger one has been given the same name - in one case two of my great aunts, my grandfather's younger sisters, born only a year apart. Knowing that mourning one child gives the name to the other is always sad.
The one that's given me the most hassle (so far) in trying to separate are not siblings, but cousins. Two brothers, both living close to each other in Preston in Lancashire. Both have daughters born 3 months apart, one in late 1841 and the other in early 1842. Both girls are named Margaret, , as it seems both sons wished to name their first daughter after their own mother. As the fathers are brothers both girls have the same christian name and the same surname, and live about 3 streets apart. So far, so good.
7 years later, the younger of the two brothers, who had moved his family away, is widowed. His children are separated amongst his family and that of his late wife, and the eldest girl goes back to her Uncle, her father's elder brother, and his wife. Maybe it was thought that it would be nice for her to grow up with a cousin of almost the same age, though I still think it's sad that she went on her own so was separated from her younger sisters. I'm sure everyone did what they though was best at the time.
But for me, 3 generations on, trying to track those two girls, first cousins, through the census - same christian name, same surname, same address, same age, same place of birth! Got there in the end though...
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I have also had in two separate sides of the family an Eliza & Elizabeth as children without any of them dying.
One of my 2 x g.grandfather's had 3 children called Eliza, Elizabeth and guess what Eliza Elizabeth. What was that all about. Neither his wife nor mother were called Elizabeth or any similar name. At least the sons all had different names.
Lizzie
Should have said all the girls were alive at the same time.
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Makes you realize how all the different nick names for one long 'actual' name came about though doesn't it - Bess, Betty, Lizzie, Beth, Liza, Lillibet, etc etc - they were just separating the girls!!! ;D ;D ;D
Wiggy ;)
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;D
Well on my John and Mary SMITH line, there's John's first marriage (Mary was Mrs S #2), and his daughters included Mary, Mary Jane and Mary Ann ... all found alive and living at home with their parents in 1861 census. Then there's his second family (remember Mrs S #2 was Mary !) and the second family's girls include yet more Mary girls ... including another Mary Jane and another Mary Ann...
On his d.c. all the girls are named in full and with their 'nick' names too ... and so is the given name of the first Mrs S... and it was also Mary.
So there was Mary (Mrs S # 1), with her daughters Mary, Mary Jane, Mary Ann
and there was Mary (Mrs S #2) (she was noted as Mary Ann) with her daughters Mary Eliza, Mary Jane (Ginnie), Mary Ann (Annie) ...
I presume each of them would know who was meant to answer if John Smith called out "Mary, come here please"
;D ;D ;D
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Of course they would - that was the general rallying cry - they all came!!! ;) ;) Saved wasting time! ;D
Wiggy :)
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My 2xGr Grand Father had 6 Sons named Richard all died, then his Daughter on her marriage tried the same with variants, Richard James, David Richard, all died before the age of 10.
Pleased to say we have NO Richards in our family.
Trish :)
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My problem is my g/gran had 2 sisters 1 called Elizabeth & the other Eliza oh deep joy ::)
She too had a sister called Alice who died age 6 long before she was born and a sister born just after her who they call Alice.
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The second son on my fathers line seems to be given the christian and middle names of thomas henry, hope thats been a tradition further back! Another line ,when children have died another one has been named after them e.g. thomas. Also that same line names such as thomas, henry, edmund, john all have followed on in families and some of them are big families.