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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: doodleysquat on Wednesday 16 March 11 15:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: doodleysquat on Wednesday 16 March 11 15:12 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me with this please ? According to the census records, William Hudson was born in 1806 in Shepshed. By the time of the 1841 census, he was living in Ruddington, Notts.  (Class HO107 Piece 863 Book 11  D 6 Folio 21 Page 35 Line 7 .....place of birth given in 1851 census) I haven't been able to find his birth & was wondering if anyone could help me get further back . If anyone, can you please let me know how you found the information because I've got a subscription to Ancestry, but I'm new to it, so may not be using it properly. I think his son, Thomas (the next descendant I'm interested in) was a non conformist, if that helps find William
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: slaw on Wednesday 16 March 11 15:56 GMT (UK)
William Hudson christened Shepshed Leicester 14th Apr 1800 father John Hudson mother Ann. Found it on www.familysearch.org

Sheila
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 16 March 11 16:37 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much, slaw......now....to find more about John.....
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 16 March 11 17:42 GMT (UK)
I can check any shepshed PRs in Loughborough library if that helps.

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 16 March 11 17:52 GMT (UK)
the nonconformist site

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/

pay to view records but indexes free have the following baptisms:
1823   William Hudson  s/o Thomas  leics
1824   Hannah Hudson d/o   "          "
1826   John Hudson            "
1831   Mary martha      "
1834   Frances hartley       "
1836   William

Diddy

Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: doodleysquat on Wednesday 16 March 11 18:21 GMT (UK)
Sorry, slaw. I forgot to change my wife's ID when I thanked you.


Thank you very much, diddy...it would help a great deal, but please don't go to any trouble. My Hudsons moved to Ruddington, Notts, at some stage. William's son Thomas was born there c 1832 (details from the census) & they zigzag across Leics/Derbys/Notts......my branch eventually settling in Nottingham. But I don't know where John started off.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: doodleysquat on Wednesday 16 March 11 19:07 GMT (UK)
A couple of people have got William in their family trees on Ancestry, but they haven't got his father....one has got his mother as Ann Olivant
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: doodleysquat on Wednesday 16 March 11 19:20 GMT (UK)
There's only one poster on here who's registered an interest in the surname Olivant & they've got them placed in Oldsall/Notts. Unfortunately, the poster concerned registered 2 years ago but has never posted, so I can't send them a message. There were some Hudsons at Oldsall that I thought could be mine at first...possibly relatives....would maybe have to look there to find John & Ann's marriage/their origins
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 17 March 11 09:43 GMT (UK)
no problem - I'm in every week ( i used to be a librarian so its a bit compulsive!!)

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Friday 18 March 11 15:43 GMT (UK)
slightly puzzling as you will see!!

baptism:
William Hudson 14/4/1800 s/o John & Ann his wife shepshed   (names clear)

marriages:
John Hudson & Mary Alt 29/9/1794 Sheshed
both otp;  both made their mark
witnesses; William salker?;  william lester

James Hudson & Ann Hutchinson  15/10/1792  shepshed
james his mark; Ann signed
witnesses: Daniel martin; william lester (think he must be parish clerk)

so you see the puzzle!!

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 30 March 11 16:45 BST (UK)
Oh, thanks very much, diddy....mmmm. As I said somebody on Ancestry has got Ann as Ann Olivant....there are Hudson & Olivant families up in Ordsall, Notts (someone is registered here is researching Oliphants in Ordsall, but I can't get hold of them) Think the person on Ancestry may have got their families mixed up, but if "my" John married Ann Olivant in Ordsall, it would solve the problem
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Burto on Wednesday 30 March 11 17:56 BST (UK)
I wonder if Mary Alt was Mary Ann and was known by either name?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 30 March 11 21:00 BST (UK)
Possibly, Burto....or maybe James Hudson somehow became John....have to see if I can follow them through.

As for the Ann Olivant/Ordsall connection, someone has had a look at the Notts Marriage Index for me & the closest they can come up with, are:

Ann Olivant & John Hemsall at Ordsall in 1793
William Hudson & Ann Ollivant at Cottam 1799
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 31 March 11 09:39 BST (UK)
Or maybe Mary Alt died & he married an Ann  somewhere that was neither Shepshed or Ordsall. Or maybe he got together with an Ann & they never married.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 31 March 11 12:07 BST (UK)
I can't find anything else for Mary Alt. If it's possible, please, could someone check to see if they can find a birth/death of a Mary Ault/Mary Ann Alt or any variation. All I know is that she married John Hudson on 29 Sep 1794 in Shepshed
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 31 March 11 13:01 BST (UK)
can check shepshed records /loughborough

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Friday 01 April 11 11:31 BST (UK)
Thanks, diddy.....I'm just wondering about the best way to tackle this...don't want to cause myself or anyone else to go round in too many circles. So please don't do it if you think it's a waste of time in view of anything else I might say here....wondering if what we really need is to look for the death of John Hudson

Just playing around, almost all of the Alts/Aults I've found outside of London are in Derbyshire....none in Leicestershire or Notts/Leics borders.

I've found James Hudson (who married Ann Hutchinson), on the 1841 census, still together with Ann in Shepshed, living with what looks like a grown up son.....Josiah.....& family.

I can't find John Hudson on the 1841 census in Leics, Notts/Leics borders/Derbyshire (his son, Thomas, that I'm descended from, was born in Ruddington, Notts...just the Nottm side of the border from Shepshed & Thomas' children were born in Derby). But there are a few Mary/Mary Ann/Ann Hudsons living alone of appropriate ages & in appropriate areas, so maybe John had died. I've found several deaths of John Hudsons in the appropriate areas between the years of the  birth of his children & 1841....but I don't know which....if any...is "my" (or rather our, Burto), John Hutchinson.

Help !!!


Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Friday 01 April 11 11:32 BST (UK)
last line should read John Hudson, of course, not Hutchinson
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Saturday 02 April 11 21:19 BST (UK)
If the John Hudson I'm looking for married an Ann from a different parish, this could be him

John Hudson married Ann Morris  17 March 1791 in Cossington, Seagrave, Leicester.

What would be the best way to try & follow that up ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Sunday 03 April 11 04:11 BST (UK)
F.A.O. Diddy…….

You’ll need the Parish registers for ALL Saints Seagrave
Not Cossington………

1791.
All Saints Parish Church.
SEAGRAVE.

John Hudson. Of the Parish of Cossington. Bachelor.
Ann Morris of this Parish. Spinster.

17th. March.
By Banns.     

MIKE.  ……
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Sunday 03 April 11 09:15 BST (UK)
OK Mike - received loud and clear!

off out for the day to Lincoln for a big family meal.  onto this next week.

Over and out!!

Diddy  ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 03 April 11 10:50 BST (UK)
Thank you both very much....enjoy your meal, diddy.

I'm just thinking.....Burto & I have this family in common....we both go back to Thomas, who was definitely born in Ruddington, Notts & who is definitely listed as the son of John & Ann Hudson. I think Burto got John's parents as William Hudson & Dorothy Goodwin, who married in Shepshed , Leics, from someone else....I don't think we've got proof of that. The connection between our John Hudson & Shepshed could be completely spurious....based only on the fact that Shepshed & Ruddington are not too far apart. The John & James Hudson (who were maybe the children of William & Dorothy), who married Mary Alt & Ann Hutchinson in Shepshed, could be totally unrelated to our John Hudson who married Ann & was the father of our Thomas.

He could have come from anywhere.

So better save yourself the trouble of the work, diddy (she said, graciously), till burto gets back & lets us know how convincing the link is between our John Hudson & William & Dorothy Hudson in Shepshed. In the meantime, I'll try to find any more John Hudsons marrying Anns in Notts & Leics

Thanks very, very, much diddy for your patience
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 03 April 11 19:53 BST (UK)
Just realised that what I've written above is partly tosh, although the end result is the same....Thomas (b 1832) was the son of William Hudson & Mary Hodge (he born 1800 in Shepshed & she born 1799 in Sutton Bonnington, Notts.....again, near the Notts/Leics border...they were married in Ruddington in 1828) & William was the son of John & Ann
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 03 April 11 20:45 BST (UK)
It looks like a widowed Ann Hudson (Morris) on the 1841 census in Cossington with her son, John, aged 40. Of course, it's possible that she & her husband John lived in Shepshed where William was born & she moved back to Cossington when she was widowed. (Aaargh !)
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 03 April 11 20:50 BST (UK)
Would my next step be to try & find out where the John Hudson who married Ann Morris died....just in case she moved back to Cossington after his death ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Monday 04 April 11 08:12 BST (UK)
I'm trying to trace this back to my own satisfaction, before diddy or anyone else is kind enough to go running about for me. What I've established for myself is that I go back to Thomas Hudson who was born in 1832 in Ruddington, Notts (near the Leics border). The 1841 census shows him living there with his parents, William & Sarah & his siblings. I can't find William's birth (c 1800/1806)....& he's supposed to be the one born in Shepshed. I've been looking at the sources on Ancestry (not other people's family tree). I've also got a subscription to findmypast.

I'd be very obliged if someone could double check Ancestry for William's birth for me. If we can't find it, what is the most reliable way for me to try & find it, please ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 04 April 11 08:32 BST (UK)
have you got William & Sarah on the 1851? birth place /date should be clearer.

might be helpful if you posted a summary of what we DO know - I'm getting confused!!

Diddy  ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 04 April 11 08:39 BST (UK)
sorry - just read beginning of thread - you do have 1851 - thought we had established williams birth as 1800 shepshed to John & Ann?

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Monday 04 April 11 08:55 BST (UK)
Thank you VERY much diddy.....I certainly owe you. The problem is that Burto & I are in this together . I've got some information from Burto, but I'm just looking now at stuff I've found out for myself on Ancestry &, hopefully, Burto will get back to us & confirm how firm the sources are for the rest.. What I've duscovered (hasving checked the 1851 census on Ancestry) for certain is this:

I'm descended from Thomas Hudson born c1832 in Ruddington, Notts. His parents were William & Sarah Hudson. (From the 1851 census) William was indeed born in Shepshed c 1801 & Sarah was born in Sutton Bonnington (it says Northamptonshire on the census, but I reckon it's the one in Notts). William & Sarah are living in Ruddington on both the 1841 & 1851 census in Ruddington.


Extra information supplied by Burto that I haven't found /checked yet. . William's  Sarah was a Sarah Hodge. William's parents were John & Ann Hudson. John's parents were William Hudson & Dorothy Goodwin & they married in Shepshed on 13 Nov 1769.

Thank you again
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 04 April 11 09:30 BST (UK)
 thats ok - good to confirm / go over facts once in a while to pull ideas together.

sutton Bonington is just up the road from here but is indeed in Notts - just! (except for phone which is Leics!)

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Monday 04 April 11 10:56 BST (UK)
Thanks, diddy.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 04 April 11 19:40 BST (UK)
just a side thought - look at the thread william whittle which has just reappeared after a year or so - i had forgotton that i had looked up Alt family members in shepshed for Truebrit.

might be worth PMing TB.

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 05 April 11 10:18 BST (UK)
Adding my mark to this thread as per PMs.

My 3xgt-grandmother was Mary Hudson who, according to the 1851 census (by which time she was married and called Mary Kilner) was also born in Shepshed.

Mary's marraige cert names her father as Thomas Hudson, FWK. According to censuses and death cert she was born around 1821. She married (in Leicester town centre) just before the 1841 census, so i haven't been able to place her with any birth family at all.

I will add further if/when I can find the notes I previously made in my so-far-unsuccessful search for Mary's family in Shepshed. I also have NottsFHS cd's of BMDs if it would help to look anything up on there (though I'm a bit lost in the thread above re what needs confirming in Nottinghamshire!)
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 05 April 11 19:56 BST (UK)
As promised, some notes I made when I had a quick look at the Shepshed PRs in LRO.

Baptisms (all Hudson):
Mary daughter of John (labourer) and Martha Dec 28 1817
Mary, baseborn daughter of Hannah 23.5.1819
John, son of John and Martha Ticklow Lane Gate 30.1.1820
Sarah daughter of JOhn (husbandman) and Martha 30 Dec 1821
Mary Eliza daughter of Thomas (labourer) and Matilda 21.7.1822
Robert son of Thomas and Eliza July 4 1824
William son of John and Martha July 4 1824
Eliza daughter of John (keeper) anmd Martha 8 Oct 1826
Louisa daughter of Thomas and Matilda 8 Oct 1826

Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 05 April 11 20:00 BST (UK)
Same era in Shepshed, Hudson marraiges:

James Hudson m Mary Downey 5.11.1815
witnesses Mary Rodgers, William Lester

John Hudson m Martha (illegible -- Mana----?) 15.4.1816
witnesses Catherine and William Lester

Thomas Hudson m Matilda Cauldwell (both of Shepshed) 28.11.1821
(my notes say "without consent!" - can't remember what that was about!
witnesses Samuel Hudson and Catherine Lester

NB there was a Thomas Manderfield (m 1817) and I have made a note that this could have been Martha's brother- must have looked a likely transcription of Martha's surname.

None of this is probably much use!!
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 05 April 11 20:09 BST (UK)
On the Notts FHS CD:

William Hudson m Sarah Hodges 25.11.1828, St Peter, Ruddington.

There are no Hudsons listed in Ruddington on the burials CD, and Ruddington isn't listed on the baptisms CD.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 05 April 11 21:33 BST (UK)
Oh, thanks Annie....that looks like my Wiliam's marriage.

I don't know if this will help or just confuse matters, but with the post William Hudsons that I know about there's a bit of jumping about between CofE & nonconformism. I don't know if this was down to the Hudsons themselves or if they weren't bothered & were influenced  by factors like cost/the wishes of their brides etc
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 05 April 11 21:37 BST (UK)
Thanks for the message about the Alts, diddy.....no harm asking them.

Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 12:35 BST (UK)
If I ordered a copy of William & Sarah's marriage entry, that should give me William's father's name
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 12:41 BST (UK)
Or would it, in the days before marriage certs ? Or useful witnesses ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 06 April 11 14:49 BST (UK)
you can't order it (only after sept 1837) - someone would need to look at original/copy in library or record office. should give witnesses - may or may not be helpful.

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 06 April 11 14:53 BST (UK)
It won't give father's names but witnesses will be named. it should also say if either of the happy couple was "of the parish" or from elsewhere.

In the past I've contacted Notts records office to ask for a photocopy of a marraige registration (pre1837) adn whilst thye said they couldn't copy it, they actually typed it out for me instead! So it's worth asking them as you can quote the date and place.

http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/home/leisure/archives/libraries-archives-contact.htm
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 14:55 BST (UK)
Thanks, diddy.....is there nothing you can order a copy of from the archives ? (I've ordered copies of birth entries but never of marriages) I suppose William could have been born in one place & baptised somewhere else  (visiting people etc) or may have lived in Shepshed & just assumed he'd been born there.

Probably the nearest I can find, geographically speaking, is a William Hudson baptised in Bottesford, Notts (Notts/Leics border). Parents aren't John & Ann, but we don't know for sure. I'll have a look & see if he stayed there.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 14:56 BST (UK)
Thanks, Annie.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 15:15 BST (UK)
Oh, is Bottesford in Lincs ? It's still Notts/Leics area. I can't find a William Hudson born in Bottesford on the 1851 census or one living in Bottesford on the 1841 census. Could someone check for me please, just in case I've missed it ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 16:42 BST (UK)
There are 4 entries on the Mormon site....William Hudson born/baptised  Shepshed 14 April 1800, parents John & Ann Hudson. William Hudson born/baptised Shepshed 29 June 1801, parents James & Ann Hudson & then one entry just for 1800 & one just for 1801 William Hudson born Shepshed....no parents mentioned. How much store can we set by these ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 06 April 11 17:18 BST (UK)
if you mean the family search site - extracted records are from the original, submitted are just that and are not always reliable.

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 06 April 11 18:51 BST (UK)
Yes...that's the one I meant, diddy.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 07 April 11 12:47 BST (UK)
I've had a look at those births again & they're both extracted from Shepshed parish records, so seem pretty reliable. James & Ann Hudson had another son they named William in 1813,  so that would suggest their first William died. So that leaves the question.....was Mary Alt also known as Ann or did she die pretty soon after the wedding  & John marry an Ann ? I'd guess that James & John were brothers with a father named William (both named their first sons  William)...but that's just guessing
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 07 April 11 16:29 BST (UK)
Haven't found a death for Mary Hudson, but I have found this marriage

Sutton Bonnington marriage of John Hudson & Ann Jakes 25 October 1801

This could be a possibility, but would depend on several factors & how likely would you be to find them together ?

Mary Hudson out of the way for whatever reason. William Hudson born to Ann Jakes out of wedlock....but she gave her name as Ann Hudson at the registration of the birth. John Hudson described as a bachelor at this wedding (if he was my John he'd either have lied or would have been a widower) John's parish given as Kingston.

Off to check if I can find out what happened to John Hudson & Ann Jakes
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 07 April 11 18:30 BST (UK)
Sutton Bonington & Kingston upon Soar - both just up the road!! would come under Notts although right on Leics /Notts boundry.

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 07 April 11 20:23 BST (UK)
Indeed, diddy, & John's son, William, (the one I'm descended from, if you remember) married a Sarah Hodge from Sutton Bonnington
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 07 April 11 20:54 BST (UK)
I've found what looks like the baptism of Ann Jakes...4 June 1780 at Sutton Bonnington . Another point of interest is that her parents were John & Rebecca....& there's a Rebecca among John's grandchildren through my ancestor Thomas (haven't checked sideways through other brothers & sisters or looked at William's or John's children yet)

Hmmm.....what's my best way on from here ? I can't find a John Hudson in Sutton Bonnington on the 1841 census, so if the John Hudson who married Mary Alt is a different one to the one who married Ann Jakes, he must have moved on or died....unless I just can't find it
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 11:42 BST (UK)
Unfortunately, the Kingston connection seems like a red herring, but I'll be keeping it in mind. Have been looking for the death of a Mary Hudson to see if it was likely that Mary Hudson/Alt died & John Hudson married an Ann. The only one I can find in the area is a Mary Hudson who died in Plumtree, Notts in 1801.....the same year that William, son of John & Ann, was baptised.....so that seems a bit late & Mary could have been of any age.

I suppose what I really need to do is get to the archives/look for gravestones, but, as I'm in Germany, that's not really on. I've been told that I should order the films, because sometimes baptisms are burials are tied up, but the Hudsons seem to be wandering all around the Notts/Leics borders.

All suggestions gratefully accepted
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 12:08 BST (UK)
Sorry....William, son of John & Ann was baptised in 1800....a year before Mary Hudson died, so I guess that makes it even more unlikely that she was connected
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 10 April 11 16:12 BST (UK)
As I said, I have the Notts FHS cd's for BMDs - these go back as far as the PRs do, but don't include every parish. However, I can look up Hudsons to your heart's content if you point in a specific direction!
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 18:35 BST (UK)
Hello, Annie....that is very, very, kind....my problem is that I don't know which direction to go in or what I could hope to find. I suppose my first step should be to try & find the birth of Mary Alt & see if there's any indication that she was Mary Ann Alt. How are you getting on ? I suppose if your Hudson was born in Shepshed, your best bet would be to follow the line of James Hudson & Ann Hutchinson (married Shepshed in 1799), because, as far as I remember, they stayed in Shepshed.

As I said, someone has told me that if I get the "films" there are sometimes cross references between births & deaths. Does she mean the CDs? My problem with that is that I've got a Mac & I think the Leics & Notts CDs are not suitable for Macs.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 18:51 BST (UK)
I can find an Ault family in Kirk Langley, Derbyshire, with an Ann Ault born within the right time frame....but no Mary. I can also find Allytt marriages in the right area in Leics....but no Mary/Mary Ann/Ann Aylytt baptism around the right time. (I've also tried variants)
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 19:27 BST (UK)
Ann Ault of Kirk Langley, Derbys, seems to have married a Joe Bacon in Derby.

The only other John Hudsons I can find marrying Anns within a reasonable time frame (ie assuming that they moved to Shepshed for some reason) is one marrying an Ann Kitchen in Upton, Notts (out towards Newark), & I've found a will made by a John Hudson, whose spouse is listed as Ann Hoseas, both of "Leicestershire".

The favourites still seem to be John Hudson & Mary Ault to me (with some kind of confusion over her first name).....but I can't find her
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Sunday 10 April 11 20:23 BST (UK)
Oh, this looks like her on Family Search

Mary Alt b 13 July 1770, Kegworth, Leics.

So.....how does this help me....should I try to get someone to go to the archives for me to look up the entry to see if she was Mary Ann ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Sunday 10 April 11 22:05 BST (UK)
Kegworth comes under my patch.....

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Sunday 10 April 11 22:07 BST (UK)
Kegworth is again only a few miles up river from Sutton Bonington (River Soar)

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Monday 11 April 11 10:11 BST (UK)
Hello diddy,

I know the area pretty well (I was born in Clifton, Nottm, though we moved more to the centre when I was a baby)....but, you know, I had a friend who studied at Sutton Bonnington, others in Ruddington etc etc. So, hello to you all ! (My mother's family were also in the Vale of Belvoir)

I really just want to know what direction people think would be the best to set off in first....maybe more experienced people have a better instinct ???? I can see if I can pay someone to look in the relevant archives....I don't want to cause anyone work. There's still the John  & Anne Hudson in Cossington....she's still in Cossington on the census, but it just says she was born in ""Leicestershire"....so always the chance she was born in Shepshed & they had a child baptised there. But she could be Ann Anybody.

So we've got a John & Ann in Cossington & a John & Ann in Kingston (though we know this Ann was from Sutton Bonnington) & we've got a John & Mary in Shepshed & a James & Ann in Shepshed (they had a William baptised in 1801 & another in 1813....so not likely to be them). My gut instinct tells me it's something to do with John & Mary in Shepshed....got the death of a Mary Hudson in Plumtree, Notts in 1801....but William (son of John & Ann ) was baptised in 1800. Is the best thing to look at the baptism of Mary/death of Ann (if I can find it) to see if there are any clues that link them together ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 12 April 11 10:30 BST (UK)
On the Leicester FHS there's a member with an interest in Hudsons in Shepshed. As a non-member you're allowed to contact 6 people free, so I'm getting in touch with them. Interestingly, in the members' interests, there are Hudsons in Shepshed from 1800 & Hudsons in Kegworth berfore 1800....so maybe they moved from Kegworth to Shepshed (Mary Alt was from Kegworth)....but whether they're my Hudsons is a different question
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 12 April 11 11:41 BST (UK)
further details as requested:

marriage:
john Hudson of parish of Lockington = Ann Morris otp (Seagrave) 17/3/1791
john Signed; Ann her mark
witnesses: James Hudson & Richard Sharpe

baptism:
Ann & Mary daughters of william? & Elizabeth? Alt Kegworth. 13/7/1770
(names diff to read but think thats right)

did you contact TB about the shepshed Alts?

Diddy
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 12 April 11 11:44 BST (UK)
Thanks very much, diddy. Yes, I have contacted TB about the Alts, but have heard nothing yet.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 12 April 11 11:51 BST (UK)
I don't suppose it's possible that the vicar made a mistake between Mary & Ann Alt ?. What perhaps may be more likely is that something happened to Mary & John married her sister. But so far the only Ann Alt (well, Ault) I've been able to find was born in Derbyshire &, married a Joe Bacon in Derby...& I can't find a death for him in time for Ann to have become the mother of William Hudson.

I've only been looking for the death of a Mary Hudson/Alt. I'll see if her sister Ann died young, so that I can at least rule out the possibility that John married/got together with her before William's birth
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 12 April 11 12:14 BST (UK)
I can find the death of an Ann Alt in Ashby de la Zouch in 1792 & the marriage of an  Ann Alllatt in Thurmaston at an appropriate date....will have to try & track back to see if either could be Mary Alt's sister
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 14 April 11 18:02 BST (UK)
Diddy.....are you sure there were 2 Alt daughters (Mary & Ann) baptised together at Kegworth, rather than it being a Mary Ann/Ann Mary ?

By the way, William Hudson spent his last years in Loughborough....died there in 1862
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 14 April 11 21:09 BST (UK)
I think all I can do (assuming I don't get any joy from the Leicester Family History Society) is to try & look at as many Hudson births in Notts & Leics (& maybe Derbys) as I can from that time & see if the Johns & Anns I've got have Williams later than my William or other children around the same time as William's birth, so that I can maybe rule out certain Johns & Anns
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 14 April 11 22:23 BST (UK)
Sorry, it seems a bit as though you're having a conversation with yourself here!

Notts FHS CDs offer NO baptisms for Alt or Ault, Mry or Ann, that could even remotely fit.

Happy to look up other possibilities; but I am all at sea with the Hudsons!
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Friday 15 April 11 06:53 BST (UK)
Thanks, Annie....no, it's OK. I've got more time than most people to hang around here & my posting might drive other people crazy, but it helps clear my mind (& it certainly needs that)

What you could do, if you've got ???? hours spare (she said graciously) is to see if there's a baptism  of a William Hudson to a John & Ann Hudson in Notts between 1800/1820, or a baptism of a Hudson baby in 1800 , parents John & Ann Hudson. That would probably rule those out as parents of my William.

Maybe Leicester Family History Society will come up trumps for both of us. My Hudsons certainly moved around. William....Shepshed to Ruddington to Loughborough, his son Ruddington to Nottingham to Derby & his son Derby & then through lots of Notts villages before settling in Nottm itself.....& they're only the places I know about.

As I've said, the worst family of agricultural labourers in the world
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 15 April 11 09:39 BST (UK)
Hmm - lots of Hudsons but no relevant ones to John+Ann or John+Mary.

I checked on just John - 1790-1810, it seems there were just 4 Hudson families with father's name John having babies: John + Christian in Notts St Mary, John +Millicent ditto; John + Eliz. In Eastwood and also in Arnold. (but remember not al parishes are represented on this cd)

1810-1830: 1 child, John and Ann, Newark (1826) - John is listed as a traveller; 6 to John and Ann in Skegby (FWK, 1822 on);  then other families in Radford, Stapleford, Sutton cum Lound, Worksop, Eastwood, Notts St Marys, Clayworth, Babworth - all with father John but no Anns or Marys as mother.

None of the Johns is listeed as an ag lab either - FWK, lacemaker, butcher, blacksmith, farmer, and the traveller as mentioned.

It doesn't take a moment to check so don't worry about time, the search facility is pretty easy to use. Do you want further details of any of the above? Or any other searches doing? (other names, marraiges, burials?)

Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Friday 15 April 11 11:15 BST (UK)
Gosh, Annie....thanks so much...expected you to come back & box my ears ! ! I still think the John & Mary in Shepshed & the John & Anns in Kingston on Soar/Cossington are my best bets, so I'm going to see if I can find out the names of their children & see what I can find. IF you have time, you could maybe check out the John & Ann in Kingston on Trent....John was born there & they're still there on the census, so they probably didn't travel as much as others.

Would William's baptism tell me his father's occupation ? Must admit I've just assumed John was an ag lab because William was & I think it was likely he stayed in the countryside. William's son, Thomas, however, became a grocer on Wilford St in Nottm
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Saturday 16 April 11 21:47 BST (UK)
I'm hoping I may have solved this one....maybe staring me in the face all the time. On the 1841 census, William is living at Ruddington, Nottingham , as head of the household & he has a male lodger, John Hudson, who is listed as having been born in 1826. I've checked this out & he was born in Kingston on Soar, so I'm wondering (hoping ?) that this indicates that William's father was the John Hudson who lived in Kingston.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Saturday 16 April 11 21:53 BST (UK)
Annie...if you're around at all....could you please check your Notts records sometime (is Kingston on Soar in there ?) & see if you can find the names of the children born to John & Ann Hudson (married, I think 1801)

Thank you
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 19 April 11 16:14 BST (UK)
OK....I've been doing some more digging & I'm typing this down for my sake as much as anyone's (because of a disability, I can't write)

The question is....who were the parents of William Hudson, baptised in Shepshed, Leics in 1800 ?

Four lots of candidates

John Hudson & Mary Alt married in Shepshed in 1794. The baptism record of Mary seems to show that 2 Alt daughters were baptised on the same occasion....Mary & Ann. Is it at all possible that it was one child named Mary Ann/Ann Mary ? John & Mary went on to have more children. (so Mary didn't die early in the marriage to be replaced by an Ann)..the name Mary is used on every occasion.. On the other hand, I can't see that John & Mary had a William & I can't find out what happened to Ann Alt....I've looked into a few Ann Alts/Aults/Olds etc, but the ages/places of birth are wrong.


James Hudson & Ann Hutchinson, married in Shepshed in 1799. Think I can count them out because they had a William baptised in 1801 & another baptised in 1813.

John Hudson & Ann Morris married in Cossington, Leics at a suitable date....they stayed in Cossington as far as I can see. Not impossible if they made a trip to Shepshed for some reason. Having problems finding baptisms of their children....will have to carry on searching.

John Hudson & Ann Jakes married in Kegworth, Leics in 1801. What counts against this is that, according to the marriage entry, they were living in different parishes at the time of the marriage (John in Kingston on Soar, Notts & Ann in Kegworth, Leics. John was born in the 1770s in Kingston & stayed there as far as I can see....another John Hudson was born there in the 1790s. I've found the birth of a William Hudson in Kegworth, Leics in 1812...parents John & Ann.

Both Mary Alt & Ann Jakes came from Kegworth, but, as far as I can see, Mary was always listed as Mary. This baptism of a William Hudson in Kegworth in 1812 could have been the son of the John Hudson born in the 1790's ....

Back to the grindstone !
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 19 April 11 19:03 BST (UK)
It sounds a bit of a nightmare but at least I think you've summed it all up nicely there.

I wasn't able to look at the Shepshed records when I was as LRO last weekend but I don't know that it would have added to the total sum of knowledge if I had  :-\

As far as my Mary goes, I rather suspect she may have been the illegitimate Mary bapt in 1819 and that she made up a convenient father for her marraige cert. I don't think I'll ever really know -- and maybe she didn't either!
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 19 April 11 19:41 BST (UK)
Don't give up, Annie....I'm going to contact the Leicester Family History Society again....remember there's some brave soul researching "Hudsons in Leicestershire"....so maybe they have a bit of an overview.

No....no point searching the Notts records, I think.

The problem is, there aren't many clues in the first names. All the Hudsons I'm looking at seem to use the same series of names...think they're all related SOMEWHERE.

Unfortunately my nearest LDS centre would cost me about 20 pounds to get to for a return trip & is only open for 3 hours 3 times a week.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 20 April 11 16:01 BST (UK)
I suspect we've got 2 lots of John & Ann Hudsons here whose main locations are Kingston on Soar, Notts & Kegworth, Leics. I've located a Kegworth homepage & someone posted on there (don't know when), saying they were researching the Hudson family. They have John Hudson (from Kingston) & Ann Jakes (from Kegworth) & say they believe they moved from Kingston to Kegworth in the early 1800s & listing  a series of births to John & Ann Hudson in Kegworth then (including the William baptised there in 1812)

I've got a John & Ann Hudson in Kingston who have 5 children, all born in Kingston ( & no William among them, which leaves the way open for them to have a William baptised in Shepshed...the dates don't clash), the dates of whom would seem to rule out the idea that they're the same John & Ann Hudson.  Unfortunately, as John Hudson & Ann Jakes married a year after my William was baptised, & they seem to have been living in separate parishes then, it looks as though I'm the one who's got to look for a different couple..

I've emailed the person who posted on the Kegworth site..
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Wednesday 20 April 11 16:21 BST (UK)
Just to make life super-complicated, I've found a John & Ann Hudson living in Oadby, Leics, on the 1841 census & they have a son, William, of the correct age, still living at home . I think I've done the correct tracing back to William in Ruddington, though (who said he was born in Shepshed)....luckily, my  g grandfather had the distinctive name of Herbert Hart Hudson, so it was relatively easy to get back to William.
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Thursday 26 May 11 21:47 BST (UK)
Think I've sorted this out now (thanks everyone) What had happened was that someone had submitted a William Hudson born in Shepshed to LDS, when the parish records showed it was a John Hudson, so there was one William too many.

Thanks very much to all the brave souls who've helped me. I've now got back to William's grandfather & have been rattling around the Notts & Derbys records.

Should I now transfer this to "Completed" or keep it running in case (in case !!) I need help further back with the Hudsons ?
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 27 May 11 15:43 BST (UK)
Hurrah! And I've added to your thread about George Hudson though I doubt I've been any help at all!

Do you fancy tracking down my Mary Hudson next? ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone help me get further back, please ?
Post by: greyingrey on Tuesday 31 May 11 20:16 BST (UK)
Shall we try ?