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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: SuzanneTF on Monday 14 March 11 03:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm from South Carolina, USA.
I'm researching my family tree and am checking into my Scottish ancestors. My father and grandmother have some information I've been looking through but I just wanted to double check that it is correct and see if I can add to it (obviously mostly what I have is the SC history).
Anyone know much about the Todd family? My relative I'm nearly 100% of is William John Todd. Where can I find out more about Williams parents/grandparents and maybe even his voyage?
Here's what I know:
He was born in Moffat, Scotland (Bodsbeck?)
William was one of 48 who came to Charleston in the fall of 1767 on board the ship Pearl with Walter Buchanan, Master. (I believe that it left from the Port of Glasgow).
Petitioned his excellency for and was granted a royal land bounty of 100 acres in Granville County on the fork of Edisto Landing 12 Sept 1768 (From "The List of Protestants to South Carolina" by Janie Revill 1974)
In 1782 he use his wagon and team to carry supplies for Francis Marion the Swamp Fox (I am EXTREMELY doubtful of this one - sounds like a family legend to me but it's from the Rev. Gene Todd source).
US Census 1800-1810 shows him married to second wife Hannah and 8 children born between 1788 and 1805
Hannah may have been a passenger on the Pearl
(Source Rev Gene Todd The Story of Thomas Todds Family from Horry Co SC Alto Ga 1995)
From what I've found online, though, my ancestor Henry (b. 1771) was from William's 1st wife Margaret Dougal. (I have no information about her or her parents or where she was born or even when they married - however, Henry seems to have been the first child).
Also, on trees I've seen speculated that he was the son of a Thomas Todd (born 18 Oct 1724 in Moffatt, Dumfries, Scotland) but there are no sources.
I would love any information! :)
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Also, I guess the Pearl left next for Lisbon? :) (From "The Papers of Henry Laurens: September 1, 1765-July 31, 1768")
http://books.google.com/books?id=87GH1QOrAYEC&pg=PA550&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&ots=0XFI0njEQf&sig=ACfU3U35ER3mo33lAFDZLnnd4PeHd4SgTQ&w=685
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Update:
I searched "Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950" and found a "William Tod" with father Thomas Tod and mother Margaret Bald. It seems to be the correct William as his Baptism/Christening Date is 25 Dec 1745. So does that mean they he just counted the christening day as his birthday or were they one and the same?
Also, found in "Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910" that Thomas and "Margret" were married 29 Jan 1745.
William Tod also had a brother, Thomas, born 10 Jan 1748.
(There is another Thomas born 20 May 1753 to To Thomas Tod and Isobel Johnston - a 2nd wife?)
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Even earlier, I see that Thomas Tod (father) was christened 18 Oct 1724 for parents Robert Tod and Janet Hyslop. Robert married "Janet Hislip" 17 Feb 1717.
In addition to their son Thomas, Robert and Janet seemed to have also had a Jannet Tod (christened 16 Sep 1722 in Dumfries) and William Tod (christened 22 Jan 1726). There is also a Christin Tod christened 17 Nov 1717 in Kirkpatrick Juxta (exactly 9 months after Robert's marriage, hmm!)
Then Robert Tod turns up just a few years later with another marriage and child so I don't know if it's the same guy and Janet died or a different Robert Tod.
There is also a Robert Tod christened on 09 Mar 1729... but the mother is Elizabeth Williamson.
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Anyways, now I am truly stuck! My resources are exhausted!
I would love any tips! I'd love to know if there are other descendants still in the area. :)
P.S. - The Mormons have AWESOME resources: https://www.familysearch.org
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If it helps, Bodesbeck is an interesting location. It is actually in Moffatdale four miles north-east of Moffat, on the road to Selkirk via St Mary's Loch. It is a place of legend, and of a fictitious ghost story based on the legend, by James Hogg called "The Brownie of the Black Haggs", written about 1828. There are still named features there, such as The Brownie's Cave and The Goat's Prison.
Hence it might be worthwhile to follow up on the Bodesbeck connection, as the place is much written about. There may well be stuff on the web, and people exploring family connections to the spot.
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Thank you for your reply! I'll try to look into it. It's nice to hear from someone who actually knows the area.
I guess another lead I should pursue is the records/passengers of ships leaving Glasgow. If such a thing exists?
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Shipping lists should be accessible, I myself haven't researched that side but a co-author on a book I wrote about the Allason family in Scotland and Virginia, he found detailed lists for that time period probably through the Mitchell Library in Glasgow (City Archives) or the Scottish Record Office. These give times and durations of voyages, cargo lists and passenger lists. It is probably best to try Scottish Record Office by email first and then Mitchell Library (as the latter take quite a while to respond due to few staff).
Bodesbeck was purchased by the Moffat family (in the Moffat area) in 1909 and their clan website might help find records. Presumably your Todd ancestor was a tenant.
You can search Scottish Records on line though the possibilities may be limited, but sometimes tenants are given for a property record.
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Hi
My fourth great grandfather was a William Todd born c.1779 in Glencairn, Dumfriesshire and there are a lot of Todd or Tod people in Dumfriesshire so you may struggle to get much more than you have.
Have you tried http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for information?
Wul
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Hello! I see this is an old thread but hopefully you will see. My family is also the Todds. And they are from Horry Cty too. I have read your post and that is the same findings I have. I have my tree posted on Ancestry.com.
I had a "double" relation (I guess you can call it) My grandfather John Pride Todd was a descendant of William John Todd and Hannah Pride. His mother, Luttie Stevens is also a Todd descendant. William John Todd 1745-1820 remarried Margaret Dougal and she is a descendant of them. Her mother was Mary Rheutillie Todd. A lot of their family is buried in Cane Branch Cemetery
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Hey! Thanks for your reply! I'm on Ancestry some but like Find A Grave lately.
I'm from Cornelius Benjamin, Mary Rheutillie's brother. :)
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Glad you got the reply!! I guess that makes us cousins! LOL! I noticed you posted that Margaret Dougal was his 1st wife... I may have that backwards in my tree. Its pretty hard decoding some of the information. There is not a lot of information about Hannah out there.
There are quite a few pictures that I was able to find from another in this line. Do you have any posted anywhere or that you would mind sharing?
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I don't really have any pictures. :( (Check my Find A Grave to see what I do have).
Don't take my work super far back as absolute gospel (regarding the wives). That's mainly what was published and what my grandma had which I know is naughty but the source records seem like the best we will have.
So, you're a descendent of Mary Rheutillie Todd. Do you know of anyone descended from her daughter's daughter's daughter, etc.? I ask because basically all the older people in the family say that Joseph's wife Irene Royals Todd was part Indian. We're stuck on her mother, Sarah Dennis. We know that Mary Dennis lived with Biggers and Sarah and then Joseph and Irene for awhile. Anyway, it would be neat to have someone who could test their maternal (mitochondrial) DNA to see if that hunch is right.
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No, unfortunately not. When it came to my GGrandmother (Luttie) I was basically stumpped until I ran across Shell on Ancestry. Her grandmother was Luttie's sister and that opened a whole new line for me to research. I had no idea she was a Todd too! She may be able to help some. She had LOTS of pictures and had alot of time put into it.
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Is this person you or Shell? http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=mr&MRid=47467375
If not, someone new to chat with! :)
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That is Shell. I was just going to send you a message. Her grandmother is Ora Granger and I noticed the name granger listed on your find a grave site. I don't have anything there, I just discovered it! She helped me tons with the Stevens line!
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Yeah - it's not a bad site. I've read some complaints about it but I've not had a bad experience yet.
I've found it to be really good for meeting others! A lot of the memorials of my ancestors I've found (not the ones I added) are just put in by people that work through entire cemeteries. But I have met a few distant cousins. :)
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I have some info on this family liaising with a researcher in Moffat
and if still interested can you please let me know?
Thanks
Betty
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I have some info on this family liaising with a researcher in Moffat
and if still interested can you please let me know?
Thanks
Betty
I'm interested! - Email me at AOL (username: SuzanneTF). :)
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I too would love the info.. gonna send a PM with my email...thanks! :D
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Have received several more enquiries about this family so am putting reply here for anyone interested to see.
My own link is with ClanMoffat UK and I maintain their web site <<ClanMoffat.info>> with my son Alan who lives in Aberdeenshire.
Clan Members have made great strides in past few years with research in and around Moffat D&G since a number of us have been working in detail and most particularly, Clan Moffat Genealogist Colin and Mr.& Mrs.Elliott - who are currently restoring Archbald Moffatt's weaver's house in Academy Road. The book on the Justices of the Peace by Johan Findlay describes the trial of Thomas Tod and she has met with the Elliotts and Colin recently. With difficulty, after finding a sealed envelope in the archived trial papers at Edinburgh, permission was granted for it to be opened and the final verdict cleared Thomas Tod! Precis of details sent to me by Niamh Elliott might help some of you but if there is anything specific please get back to me and I can make further enquiries or posibly find a source, you also might care to see website <<ClanMoffat.info>> for general information and of course, look at Johan's book.
Thanks for contacting me. Betty Telford (Hereford)
<<The Thomas Todd tried by Henry Homes Lord Kames and Lord Auckinleck (18th-20th May 1765) was we believe the uncle of William Todd, Thomas did indeed marry Isobel Johnston who was the daughter of Archbald Johnston, Moffat Merchant. Thomas and Isobel had 7 children in Moffat between 1751 and 1763. Thomas Todd' crime was robbing and beating his father in law in his own house (hamesucken) and which took place on 19th Jan 1765 (young John Moffatt witnessed and gave evidence about this with his father Archbald as John was a minor aged 12). This is recorded in the Dumfries Court Sederunt book transcribed on pages 68 and 69 of Johan Findlay OBE JP book.>>
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Thank you all for you work on William John Todd. This is the missing link I needed to establish my Todd relatives in America. My line is descended from the 2nd generation from Henry Todd (1771). After his arrival in Horry county, he fathered a son, Silas Todd B. 1810, who married Margaret, (b. 1804 ). Silas had 2 children, Pinkney Poshley Todd and Melvina Todd, (b. 1838). It is from this Todd member that my lineage leads to my grandfather Charles Olin Todd, (b. 9/23/1882). He left home at a young age and apprenticed to the Moore family in Mt Pleasant Village, SC. He became a cooper and eventually moved to West Palm Beach, FL. He married Rita Alice Grewell and they had three sons. The oldest was my Dad, Charles Olin Todd, Jr., Willard Lee, and Brian James Todd. From there, my oldest brother is Charles Olin Todd, III. So the information you all supplied helped me finish 2 years of searching. Thanks. KDean
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That's wonderful! :)
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William John Todd is also in my family tree. I was born in Conway, S.C. 1961, My grandmother was Lizzie Jane Todd. Nice you meet you. Do you go to the Todd Family Reunions? I was there this year
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Not sure if anyone is checking this thread still, but I am also a direct descendant of these Todds. My line goes through William's son, Samuel Todd/Elizabeth Hickman.
My line winds up in Horry Co and then into NC.
I picked up a book at my local library years ago called, "Colonist from Scotland, Emigration to North America 1707-1783" and was shocked to find this small passage in there that said, (Pg.100)
"In 1767 fifty indentured servants aboard the ship 'Pearl' which had arrived at Charleston from Glasgow, began to voice 'most violent complaints' over the ill usage they had received during the voyage at the hands of Captain Buchanan. They appealed to the governor and Council, to the Assembly, and to the local lawyers. Henry Laurens, the Charleston merchant, believed the master had done no more than strike some of them. Nevertheless he found himself insulted in the streets by some 'Irish' (probably Scotch-Irish) among the immigrants. So harassed was Laurens that he returned the bounty money he had drawn on forty-eight of them as indentured servants, converted them into ordinary settlers, and drew the bounty to which he was entitled for importing Protestants."
I have never confirmed if William Todd was an indentured servant, but the timing does seem to be correct and it would show how he got his land so quickly.
Excerpt from: "A Compilation of the Original Lists of Protestant Immigrants to South Carolina 1763-1773" Compiled by Janie Revill
Council Journal 33, page 306-311
Meeting of 12th. December 1767.
"The Clerk reported to his excellency that agreeable to his orders he had been on board the ship 'Pearl' Walter Buckanan, Master and had sworn the passengers lately arrived here from Scotland and Ireland agreeable to a list he delivered into the board."
"The following petitions from the following persons were presented and read setting forth that they were Protestants and had arrived from Great Britain and Ireland on the encouragement of the Bounty given by the Act of the General Assembly of this Province passed the 25th day of July 1761 and therefore prayed the same and also Warrants for their lands."
(William Todd is listed with 47 others receiving 100 acres of land, in Granville County.)
"Ordered that the Secretary do prepare Warrants of Survey accordingly. And that the Public Treasurer do pay the bounties of four pounds sterling for each of them to Henry Laurens Esq. on behalf of the owners of the ship they came over in towards payment of their passages and the remaining twenty shillings to themselves agreeable to the directions of the said Act on Mr. Laurens entering into Security to repay the Bounty he shall receive if he does not produce certificates in favor of them as required by the said Act."
I also have a few items that (May) show William's service during the Rev War under the command of Archibald McDonald. I ordered them from the SC Archives and they are copies of actual documents.
Again, I can only speculate that this is my ancestor since I have not done research on the subject in many years to confirm.
Seems like I am related to most of you that are posting in this thread!
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SuzanneTF,
Have you contacted Rev Gene Todd? Also do you go to the Todd Reunion, 1st Sunday of May every year in Loris, S.C..
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I am brand new to this site and very interested in getting in on the discussion concerning William John Todd. I am from Georgia. Our family traces to Horry County, SC. All I have read is very interesting, but am needing some documentation. Thanks.
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The last Todd ancestor I can verify is William Todd, b. 14 Jul 1775the father of Joseph Jackson Todd, b. 04 Oct 1816.
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I believe the William Todd of my ancestry is the son of William John Todd, but that is where I need some solid evidence.
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I’ve recently discovered I too, am a descendant of William John Todd.
How do I find out more info about Todd family reunions?
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A group of Todd researchers are trying to get to the bottom of the origins of the Horry County SC Todds. We are using the Big Y DNA test to flesh out the relationships between the various lines who match on the conventional STR male DNA test. These include the Bermuda Todds, the Todds of Yorkshire and New haven CT, the Horry Co SC Todds, the Prince George Co VA to Roane Co TN Todds.
If interested in following what we learn, email me at Removed
Richard McMurtry
Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Frankly, I doubt the MOffatt, Dumfriesshire origin cited for the Todds of Horry County SC. I am recruiting DNA samples from Dumfriesshire families to see what we can discover.
Richard McMurtry
Moderator comment: email address removed
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It appears that the family tradition created in the 1990s by family historians that William Todd d 1820 Horry County South Carolina was the William Todd born Dec 1745 in MOffatt, Dumfriesshire is incorrect. It appears that this was a guess based on assuming that this William Todd of Horry County was from Scotland, that his father was Thomas, and then finding a William Todd son of Thomas in Moffatt parish registers.
DNA reveals that the male DNA of the Horry County Todds match the family of John Todd b 1734 Scarborough, Yorkshire. This family is close genetically to the family of Christopher Todd 1616-1686 who came to New Haven CT in 1639 from Yorkshire. All the DNA evidence points to an English origin, not a Scottish one.
Also, male DNA from a Tod family of Moffat does not match the DNA of the Horry County Todds.
Also, the male DNA of Richard Todd d 1809 Horry County matches the DNA of William Todd d 1820 Horry County. So they are close kin.
see my website at toddmcmurtrieportal.com for more details or send me a personal message.
Richard McMurtry