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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rwenman on Saturday 12 March 11 22:21 GMT (UK)

Title: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Saturday 12 March 11 22:21 GMT (UK)
 :)Hello, I'm looking for a lead for a man named Herbert Barker, who likely lived in Grimsby, Lincolnshire around 1896.

My understanding is he may have worked as a customs agent, or lived in a home owned by the customs near Cleethorpes Road (sp?), near Rigby Street?  He may have had an association with Lucy Wilkins, b in 1863.

any leads on if this man would be very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Saturday 12 March 11 23:11 GMT (UK)
Oh, I am sorry, the year was 1896 that I am looking for a Herbert Barker, or any Barker in Grimsby at that time.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 14 March 11 09:35 GMT (UK)
I'm looking for a lead for a man named Herbert Barker my understanding is he may have worked as a customs agent, or lived in a home owned by the customs near Cleethorpes Road (sp?), near Rigby Street? 

He may have had an association with Lucy Wilkins, b in 1863.


Have checked 1891c  house No’s 1 – 260 Cleethorpe Road  Great Grimsby  Caistor Lincolnshire  NOBODY named BARKER occ Customs Agent

This is all I came up with

1891
Custom House, Cleethorpe Road, Great Grimsby, Grimsby
ALLS, Rbt Head 1835  Customs Officer Leigh Scotland
ALLS, Jane A  1836   South ThorsebyLincolnshire
ALLS, Frances M Dau    1873 General Servant Domestic Grimsby Lincolnshire
ALLS, Martha E Dau 1877  General Servant Domestic Grimsby Lincolnshire
ALLS, Geo Wm Grandson  1889  Grimsby Lincolnshire

There are these Hazelgrove do they have a connection Stephen (Lucy's husband)

1891
260, White Swan, Cleethorpe Road, Great Grimsby, Grimsby
HAZELGROVE, Frank Head Marr 1852   Publican Grimsby Lincolnshire
HAZELGROVE, Betsy Wife  1849   Barkworth Lincolnshire
SMITH, Har E Daughter Married 1873   Grimsby Lincolnshire
BREWSTER, Annie Servant Single   F 30   1861   Barmaid Boston Lincolnshire
LAPAGE, Annie Eliz Servant Single   F 17   1874   Domestic Servant TickhillYorkshire

However I have found this person living in LAMBETH - no idea whether there's a connection here to Lucy, although Lucy Wilkins was living in Lambeth at  37, Conroy Street with her husband James and children Ethel, David & Amy in 1891

1891c  4, Frederick Crescent, Lambeth
BARBER, Henry J Head Marr1860 Civil Service Writer H M Customs Paddington
BARBER, Julia L Wife Married F 27 1864 Paddington
BARBER, Florence J Daughter F 2 1889 Cumberwell
BARBER, Herbert H Son M 1 1890 Brixton London

Julia is widowed by 1901 census living in Kent and is a Boarding House Keeper
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Monday 14 March 11 14:10 GMT (UK)
that is an interesting connection, similar sounding name and occupation as a customs officer.  I wonder where he goes after his wife dies?  I'll try to do a search.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 14 March 11 14:24 GMT (UK)
that is an interesting connection, similar sounding name and occupation as a customs officer.

I wonder where he goes after his wife dies? 


It's Henry J Barber who has died and Julia is the widow on the 1901c with their children.  It would be interesting to find the date when his death occurred

Here's Henry with his parents

1881 164, Ebury Street, St George Hanover Square
BARBER, Eliza A Head Widow  F 42 1839 Dressmaker Marylebone Middlesex
BARBER, Henry J Son Single  M 21 1860 Marylebone Civil Service Clerk (Customs)  
BARBER, William A Son Single  M 20 1861 Clerk (Solicitor) Marylebone
BARBER, Alice E Daughter Single  F 15 1866 No Occupation Chelsea Middlesex
BARBER, Thomas Son Single  M 10 1871 Scholar Chelsea

1871 (82?) Walton Street, St Luke
BARBER, James Head  M 35 1836 Bromley Kent Police Sjt.
BARBER, Eliza A Wife  F 35 1836 Middlesex
BARBER, Henry J Son  M 11 1860 Middlesex
BARBER, Willm A Son  M 10 1861 Middlesex
BARBER, Alice E Daughter  F 5 1866 Middlesex
BARBER, Florence L Daughter  F 4 1867 Middlesex
BARBER, Thomas Son  M 0 1871 Middlesex

1861
33, Paddington Street, Marylebone
BARBER, James Head Married  M 26 1835 Police Constable Bromley Kent
BARBER, Eliza A Wife Married  F 26 1835 Wife Marylebone
BARBER, Henry C Son  M 2 1859 Marylebone
BARBER, William J Son  M 0 (1M) 1861 Marylebone
TAGNEY, Sarah Servant Married  F 42 1819 House Southampton Surrey
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Sunday 01 June 14 04:00 BST (UK)
 :)Hello, back at it again. Any sleuths out there?  Attempting to track down again Herbert Barker at around 1896 (1891, 1901 census) at around 1 – 260 Cleethorpe Road  Great Grimsby  Caistor Lincolnshire.  Would appreciate any help from anyone who migh have acces to the census for around this time.  (1896 was when my grandfather "Arthur Wilkins" was born, in Grimsby.)  Possible father, Herbert Barker (similar sounding names possible?) was apparently housed at the customs office. ("down a passage off Cleethorpes Road near Rigby Square, where two houses owned by the customs, near a bacon shop on the corner" (description from great aunt) No idea how old Herbert may have been at the time.  thanks
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Sunday 01 June 14 17:17 BST (UK)
Street directory for Great Grimsby 1896 has  260 Cleethorpes Road  White Swan Public House.
W A Butt.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Sunday 01 June 14 18:42 BST (UK)
Is this street directory available online? 
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Geoff-E on Sunday 01 June 14 18:45 BST (UK)
Is this street directory available online?

Lots here http://tinyurl.com/k53dpxg

:)
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Sunday 01 June 14 19:45 BST (UK)
I found the Directory by browsing ..but click of when I found it to get a message to you, and didn't  take  notice of which one ...I am sorry
So it will be among those that Geoff-E put up I think.

Looking at the 1891 census, There is a Hebert Barker a cab man  he is down as a boarder living with a W Lusby and his wife Emma.

They are at 32 Strand Street Grimsby,which is just a stride from Riby Square Grimsby, and would have had passages leading to it from Cleethorpes Road.

I don't know of any Custom House being there, But there was one in Flower Square which could be reached from Cleethorpes Road.....Flower Square is often now referred to as Flour Square.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Eilleen on Monday 02 June 14 19:45 BST (UK)
Hi  :)
maybe no connection at all,

Sheffield Daily Telegraph , 21st Oct 1903.

Partnership Dissolved.

Walter Barker and Herbert Barker , cab proprietors,
New Street, Cleethorpes, and Strand Sreet, Great Grimsby,
under the stye of " W and H Barker "

Eilleen.

Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Wednesday 04 June 14 02:09 BST (UK)
Thanks much.  Can you send me the transcription or copy of the census for Barker?  Wondering about his age, and place of birth.  Hoping to track down what happened to him. ???
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Wednesday 04 June 14 15:32 BST (UK)
Here is his marriage

  Old Clee Parish Church    25/05/1894

  Herbert Barker age 27  cab proprietor of 125 Kent street Grimsby
  father...John.. a cab proprietor

  Mary Ann Collins  age 24  of Clee
  father ..John  a labourer

  Wits;  Alfred Collins and Edith Barker
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Wednesday 04 June 14 15:41 BST (UK)
And his father second marriage ? this one is interesting!

  Old Clee Parish Church  07/05/1895

  John Barker age 64  widower a cab proprietor  of Highgate Cleethorpes.
  father John a deceased farmer.

  Mary Jane Hall  age 40  of Cleethorpes.
  father George a  deceased  CUSTOM HOUSE OFFICER
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Wednesday 04 June 14 19:22 BST (UK)
 :)Now that is interesting!  The old letter from the relative who believes Herbert is the father to Arthur Wilkins, said that Herbert was staying at the Customs Officer House.   

Any clue what may have happened to his wife Mary Ann (Collins) since (Barleymow) said  "Looking at the 1891 census, there is a Herbert Barker a cab man  he is down as a boarder living with a W Lusby and his wife Emma". 

Any records of death on Mary Ann? 

Also, Do you have access to the 1901 census?
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Wednesday 04 June 14 21:21 BST (UK)

1901 Strand Street Grimsby
   
W LUSBY HEAD MARRIED Male 32 1859 CARTER LINCOLNSHIRE 
EMMA E LUSBY WIFE MARRIED Female 32 1859 - LONDON, MIDDLESEX 
MARY J LUSBY DAUGHTER SINGLE Female 9 1882 SCHOLAR LINCOLNSHIRE 
CARRIE LUSBY DAUGHTER SINGLE Female 3 1888 - LINCOLNSHIRE 
JOSEPH CODD BOARDER SINGLE Male 28 1863 GRAIN PORTER LINCOLNSHIRE 
HERBERT BARKER BOARDER SINGLE Male 23 1868 CAB MAN LINCOLNSHIRE
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 04 June 14 21:31 BST (UK)
the above is actually 1891 - my suspicion is this is him in 1901 (Polly being a pet name for Mary). children fit an 1894 marriage as quoted

34 Strand St, Grimsby

Herbert Barker    31 - cab proprietor b Cleethorpes
Polly Barker    30 - b Grimsby
John R Barker    5  - b Grimsby
Ida M Barker    2  - b Grimsby
   
RG13, 3092, 13, 18.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 04 June 14 21:35 BST (UK)
Herbert Barker
Death Registered - Dec 1917
Age At Death  - 48
Grimsby  Vol 7a, p687
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Barleymow on Wednesday 04 June 14 21:40 BST (UK)
You are right Mabel it was 1891....  Polly was used for nearly all Mary Ann's

Sorry !!

Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 04 June 14 21:54 BST (UK)
Just wondering what the evidence is for Herbert's link to Arthur Wilkins - the most obvious Arthur b Grimbsy with mother Lucy is known as Arthur Skelton on 1901 (in a family of mixed Skelton and Wilkins offspring - but no obvious marriage ) and Arthur Wilkins on 1911. By this time Lucy is with another "husband", although they do not marry until 1912, after the death of his wife. She marries in the name Wilkins.
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: rwenman on Thursday 05 June 14 06:31 BST (UK)
Sorry this is so long-winded... but I'll try to layout what I know...
You are right on with my research, that Arthur Wilkins was likely born in Grimsby in around 1896:
His mother Lucy Wilkins b (Riley) 1862, in Rochford, Essex

Married James David Wilkins, b 1857 in Wilton, Wiltshire, England.
They were married and the shown in the 1891 census (before Arthur was born) to be living in Lambeth:

891 RG12 Piece:402 Folio:49 Page:54    
37, Conroy Street, Lambeth
WILKINS, James D Head Married M 33 1858 Painter Wilton Wiltshire
WILKINS, Lucy G? ('E') Wife Married F 28 1863 Laundress Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Daughter F 6 1885 Aldershot Hampshire
WILKINS, David John Son M 4 1887 Pimlico London
WILKINS, Amy E S Daughter F 2 1889 Westminster London

sometime after this Lucy leaves Lambeth and moves to Grimsby (shown on 1891 census) but without James Wilkins.  Not clear what happened to him, whether he died, or Lucy just left I am not sure.  A letter from Lucy's daughter in her old age tries to explain that Herbert Barker may have been Arthur's father, but does not explain what happened to James Wilkins (which is part of the mystery), other than when she was little Lucy did not want to talk about him.

Here is what I found on Arthur G. Wilkins b 1896
WILKINS, Arthur
Caistor Lincolnshire 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No:  640

also:

SKELTON, Arthur George
Caistor  Lincolnshire 1896  Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No: 626

FreeBMD
Arthur George Skelton
Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626

I have not found a marriage certificate between Lucy and George Skelton, but they do show up at the same address in the 1901 census with Arthur with last name of Skelton:
1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshir
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON, Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 Grimsby Lincolnshire 
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire
 
Unfortunately, I do not have copy of the actual original birth certificate which may prove who the father was, but all that I am going on is the letter years later written by Lucy's daughter "Amy Wilkins", that Lucy stated to her Herbert Barker was the father of Arthur G. Wilkins/Skelton.  How does one go about getting the original birth certificate for Arthur, with known mother Lucy?   Also, formal death certificate for Lucy's first husband "James David Wilkins" b 1857?
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 05 June 14 16:38 BST (UK)
posted by rwenman  March 2011 heading Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton

to see if anyone else can help and to avoid duplication of efforts here's the March 2011 links
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=518272.27 and
heading James Wilkins b1857
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=518764.0


Here is what I found on Arthur G. Wilkins b 1896

WILKINS, Arthur
Caistor Lincolnshire 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No:  640

also:

SKELTON, Arthur George
Caistor  Lincolnshire 1896  Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No: 626

FreeBMD
Arthur George Skelton
Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626


These ref. details given on your 2011 thread did you decide not to purchase either the 1896 birth or 1919 marriage certificates for Arthur George Skelton / Wilkins to check who was named as his father?
The b/c may give you the answer to his parents names and his marriage certificate to Gertrude hopefully would also name his father

These details were also posted as a possible match to the birth entry for Arthur WILKINS

Arthur Wilkins
12 Jul 1895 Christening   St. John, Clee, Lincoln, England
father John Wilkins mother Sarah Ann

Clee is in the registration district of Caistor

certificates can be obtained from the GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/GRO/content/certificates/default.asp
Title: Re: Herbert Barker - Grimsby resident 1896
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 06 June 14 08:01 BST (UK)
Here is his marriage

  Old Clee Parish Church    25/05/1894

  Herbert Barker age 27  cab proprietor of 125 Kent street Grimsby
  father...John.. a cab proprietor

  Mary Ann Collins  age 24  of Clee
  father ..John  a labourer

  Wits;  Alfred Collins and Edith Barker


And his father second marriage ? this one is interesting!

  Old Clee Parish Church  07/05/1895

  John Barker age 64  widower a cab proprietor  of Highgate Cleethorpes.
  father John a deceased farmer.

  Mary Jane Hall age 40  of Cleethorpes.
  father George a  deceased  CUSTOM HOUSE OFFICER

Herbert Barker christened 4 Apr 1869 Old Clee parents John & Margaret
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NBCY-CPX

1871 c Herbert Barker with parents John & Margaret
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VB8J-5GQ
they have a visitor Mary J Hall age 16 (1855) looks as if she’s Herbert’s father John’s second wife and the 1881c Mary noted as wife's sister)

1881c Herbert Barker with parents John & Margaret
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3YR-321

1891c John Barker widow living with him sister in law Mary J Hall age 36 born Ripon - you can find the full details of the census if you search here http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Here's a pedigree tree John Barker born c 1830 - details submitted in 2000
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9HDL-67K

ADDED for info.

Baptism: 10 Jun 1832 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Margaret Hall born 14 May 1832 parents George Hall occ Excise Man & Barbara Abode: Clitheroe
   
Other Hall christenings
George born 14 Nov 1829 ch 16 Dec 1829
John born 8 Oct 1827 ch 16 Dec 1829

Sorry don’t have full details of the censuses

1861 Pudsey Yorkshire (West Riding)
Mary J Hall age 6 Ripon a visitor
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M76X-HVY

It looks as if
John Barker & Margaret Hall married in Halifax Jun qtr. 1855

1851 Yorkshire
Margaret Hall age 18 born c. 1833 Clitheroe Lancashire occ Shop Woman   

1841 Yorkshire
George HALL c. 1796   age 45 occ Excise Officer   
Barbara      c. 1796   age 45                     
Margaret      c. 1832 age 9
not born in this county   

perhaps this might be George on 1851c Yorkshire

George Hall age 54 born c. 1797   Nether Northumberland occ Inland Provisioner Officer

there's also this 1851 entry but he's born Yorkshsire

George Hall age 59 born c. 1792 Whorlton occ Supervisor Of Excise Inland Revenue