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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Roseamry on Friday 11 March 11 22:43 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
From a family story I am trying to prove is the fact that one of my family members was buried in the Old Melbourne Cemetery in 1853/1854 in a pauper's grave.
I have read that records are scarce, but does anyone know if a death certificate would have normally been issued ?
The name in question is William Lowthian who was born in Cumberland UK in 1835 and the story tells he arrived in Australia in 1853/4 - there is one who fits this arrival year on the ship "Oregon" but it just gives his age as "A" - meaning adult.
Thanks in Advance
Ro
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Hi next time I am at our library I will look up the indexes for you.
meanwhile thought I would give some info on Old Melb Cemetery and its replacement
Many people assume the first cemetery in Melbourne was the Old Melbourne Cemetery, whereas in fact it was Burial Hill, today's Flagstaff Gardens.
Willie, the child of James Goodman was the first person to buried in Melbourne, Port Phillip District. He was buried on 13th May 1836 at Burial Hill. This site was only used for about 6 burials.
It is not possible to visit the Old Melbourne Cemetery either, because it is located UNDER the present day Queen Victoria Market.
Bounded by Queen Street to the east, Peel Street to the west, Franklin Street to the south, and Fulton Street (which no longer exists) to the north, the Old Melbourne Cemetery was established in 1837 in West Melbourne. The first person to be buried on this site was also a child. He was Frederick William Craig, the infant son of Skene Craig. As Melbourne grew, this site was recognised as being too small and the Melbourne General Cemetery (or new Cemetery), that we know today, in Carlton, was established by an act of the New South Wales parliament in 1850 and was opened on 1st June 1853.
The Old Melbourne Cemetery was divided into areas according to religious denominations. Two acres each were given to the Church of England, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics and one acre each was given to the Jews, Quakers, Methodists and Independents. Later, half of the Quaker area was given to the Aborigines. The history of the Old Melbourne Cemetery ties in with that of the Queen Victoria Market, which was adjacent to it, and when the latter first expanded in 1878, it was the Quaker/Aborigine area near Fulton Street which it acquired first. A Crown grant was passed providing land for a general market on 4th March 1867. Today's meat hall dates back to 1869. The next 2 grants that provided more land for the market, were dated 1878 and 1880 (see Queen Victoria Market Lands Act 1996 - Act No. 78/1996 at www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au), and in the 1880's legislation was passed requiring all bodies in the Old Cemetery to be exhumed.
Identification of the burial plots was made difficult because the register of burials prior to 1866 was lost or destroyed. Many graves were unmarked. Others had 'headstones' of red gum, which had weathered away. From 1920-22, 914 graves with identifying monuments were re-interred at Fawkner, Kew, St. Kilda, Cheltenham and the Melbourne General Cemetery. Many of the headstones crumbled when shifted. At this stage, the cemetery was in a terrible state of neglect, with very long grass. The cemetery had been closed in 1854, re-opened in 1864 for the sale of new plots, re-closed in 1867, with the final burial taking place in 1917. It was closed permanently in 1922.
As there were about 10,000 burials on the site, there still remain approximately 9,000 people buried under the sheds and car park of the Queen Victoria Market. Every time work is carried out at the market, bones are disturbed. A memorial to these people stands on the corner of Queen Street and Therry Street. In 1996, the previous Crown grants were revoked and the Queen Victoria Market Lands Act 1996 came into being.
There are several books of interest to be found on the Old Melbourne Cemetery. Marjorie Morgan's own book, "The Old Melbourne Cemetery 1837 - 1922" published by the Australian Institute of Genealogical Studies in 1982, has names of people buried there. These came from transcriptions of legible headstones made by G. P. Townend in 1913-14. As a gentleman in the late 60's he saw the importance of making a record of these markers.
Isaac Selby wrote a book called "Old Pioneers Memorial History of Melbourne" in 1924, whilst the Royal Historical Society of Victoria's Historical Magazine, Volume 9, No. 1, pages 40-47 has an article on the cemetery. Another book, "Melbourne Markets 1841-1979, the story of the fruit and vegetable markets in the City of Melbourne" (Footscray, 1980), edited by Colin E. Cole has material on Melbourne markets.
Hope this helps a little
If i find anything I will let you know
cheers
chrissy
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Hi Chrissy,
I had read that account about the Queen Vic site but was unaware of the Flagstaff Gardens one.
That sketchy information is all that I have on Wm Lowthian - and as I said it is a family story - I just cant find anything more on him in the Uk or Australian records & hoped that I might prove or disprove it.
Many thanks for the offer
regards Ro
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Civil registration commenced in July 1853 in Victoria. I can see no death registration for a William LOWTHIAN in the period whose age indicates birth c1833.
You may be interested in the recent announcement from the Victorian Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.
Early ChurchRecords Recovery Project
The Early Church Register recovery project for records created between 1853 and 1900, that were not originally provided to the Registry, has been recovered and has now been captured into our database. This could not have been achieved without the diligent efforts of our field volunteers and those volunteers who worked tirelessly in capturing the data. These records compliment the Early Church records currently housed on our online index.
One of my ancestors died in 1853 in East Melbourne and I was told he had been buried at the Old Melbourne Cemetery however after much searching I found that he was one of the earliest pauper burials at the Melbourne General Cemetery. However I did have his date of death.
It may be worth checking with MGC - mgc[at]necropolis.com.au
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Many thanks for this pointer - will try it
regards Ro
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It is not possible to visit the Old Melbourne Cemetery either, because it is located UNDER the present day Queen Victoria Market
There was story about a redevelopment of The Queen Victoria Market site and the problems they will have with the old cemetery.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bodies-under-queen-vic-haunt-market-revamp-20110311-1bqsp.html
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Hi Cando and Thornett.
That was an interesting read on the site you gave about the carpark....be interested to here the outcome in due course.
chrissy
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Many thanks for the reply - I read this yesterday.
It will be very interesting to see what the outcome is
regards Ro
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Hi
Found this article in the newspaper which would fit the person you are looking for perhaps...he died in 1904 and was aged 69 (c1834) would then be his birth date.
SUDDEN DEATHS. (The Argus Newspaper Melbourne - Thursday 3.11.1904)
KYNETON VICTORIA - On Tuesdav night an old age pensioner named William John Lowthian aged 69 living in Baldwin street Kjneton died some what suddeny. He had been seen by a neighbour outside in his yard shortly after 5pm but at 9pm his daughter Mrs Alice Dalton found him 'dead sitting in his chair with his head resting on the table. He had a slice of bread and butter in front of him and had evidently been in the act of making his tea when he expired. He had been attended for heart disease and dropsy. The police reported these facts to Mr M. K. Armstrong J.P. who thought it unnecessary to hold a magistrial enquiry as their were no suspicious circumstances and Dr Ryan was prepared to give a certificate as to the cause of death.'
Hope this helps.
My suggestion would be to right to Old Melbourne Cemetery asking the following
1. Look for variations of the surname spelling (my children went to school with a family but they spelt their name Lothian ) ..maybe its worth a try to try that spelling
2. Any paupers buried around the date of the article..people in those days were buried within 2 days
3. Do a search on his daughter Mrs Alice Dalton for her death or on the person who furnished the details to the cemetery (I have done this)
4. Request a death certificate copy form Births Deaths and Marriages in Melbourne Victoria. I think they cost around 25.00 australian.
I also found this death notice in the Argus on 21. Apri 1915
LOWTHIAN
LOWTHIAN. - On the 20th April, at 55 Lock street, Coburg, Margaret Thompson, relict of the late
Wm. Lowthian, of Kyneton, and mother of the late Mrs. Dalton, Cohuna, Mrs. C. Goodridge,
Castlemaine; W. J. Lowthian, Koondrook; in her 69th year. Kyneton papers please copy.
and the funeral notice
FUNERAL NOTICES.
LOWTHIAN.-Friends of the late Mrs. MARGARET THOMPSON LOWTHIAN are respectfully informed that her remains will be interred in the Echuca Cemetery THIS DAY (Wednesday, 21st April, 1915), on arrival of the 6.40 a.m. train from Melbourne.
Hope this helps a bit .
could be your Lowthian descendent.
cheers
chrissy
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Lowthian
also found this death notice as well which would appear to be the son of your man..its for his wifes death but look at the cousin names they are 'daltons' ..it seems to link
''''LOWTHIAN -On the 31st December 1925 (suddenly) at Koondrook, Valma May, dearly loved second
daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. J. Lowthian, darling sister of Una, Jack, and Ray), aged 6 years and 11 months.
The family chain broken
LOWTHIAN -On the 31st December, at her parents home, Koondrook, Valma May, dearly loved cousin of Ella (Mrs. P.S. Wales), Ivy, Maggie and Mena Dalton.
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27.10.1953 in the Argus ...this would appear to be the son of your William John Lowthian also known as William John.
''Barham man dies at bowls Barham, Monday.
Mr. William John Lowthian, retired Koondrook business man, collapsed and died yesterday afternoon.
He was playing bowls at Barham bowling green.
He formerly conducted a bakery business. He is survived by a widow, a daughter and two sons.
chrissy
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Lowthian Margaret Thompson 70 1915
entry on Eucha Cemetery Records for her burial.
Dalton Alice Marion 32 1912
burial record at Eucha Cemetery
chrissy
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Hello,
From a family story I am trying to prove is the fact that one of my family members was buried in the Old Melbourne Cemetery in 1853/1854 in a pauper's grave.
I have read that records are scarce, but does anyone know if a death certificate would have normally been issued ?
The name in question is William Lowthian who was born in Cumberland UK in 1835 and the story tells he arrived in Australia in 1853/4 - there is one who fits this arrival year on the ship "Oregon" but it just gives his age as "A" - meaning adult.
Thanks in Advance
Ro
Ro I wonder if this is your William's death? I think you would need to see the death certificate to ensure that the North America has been transcribed accurately. I have had some weird and wonderful places of birth on some of my distant rellies death certificates...and most of them incorrect. I guess it would have depended on the interpretation of the information by the registrar and the hopefully accurate knowledge of the informant.
Death
LOUTHEAN William
Parents unknown 22 years
Birth place Nth America 1854 Reg#3937
You can purchase online [$17.50] and immediately dowload an image of the cert.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Chrissy
To 1888 there are only four LOWTHIAN regs in Vic and the males were born Co Wexford Ireland and you appear to have followed that line. William married Margaret DRYDEN in 1881 and lived at Kyneton.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Thanks for the reply.
I reallu dont know if this could be the one, as the nearest I can come to calculating the age, is that the one I am looking for would perhaps have been about 32 years of age in 1854. They all came from Cumberland England. The Irish line is not mine.
I have scoured through the family looking for some clue but perhaps it is one we will never find, or maybe it is just a family tale.
Thanks again
Ro
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Ro if he died before civil registration which commenced 1 July 1853, there may be no civil record. I understand that a legislation passed in 1898 requested that all parish records before 1 Jan 1853 be sent to the Vic registry however this leaves a 6 month gap in the records ie between Jan 1 and July 1 1853. Just a bit of trivia but could be the reason there is no death registration for William.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Every little bit of "trivia" helps
regards Ro
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I am researching the rusk family that arrived in port phillip bay in 1851 aboard the harry lorrequer. According to passenger lists there was edward, elizabeth and there 6 sons. I found that edward bought 5 allotments from holloway in 'gipsy village' that became cheltenham. I also found a death record for an edward rusk in 1854. My question is, does anyone know if there was a cemetery in gipsy village in 1854? I have found elizabeth and several sons buried in the old cheltenham cemetery, but am unsure of where edward could be. Thanks, julie.
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Hello Julie and welcome :D
Buried at St Andrews Church Brighton
Rusk Edward 1854 age 36years
Raylen
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Hi Julie
You are incorrect with your info about Gipsy Village. The suburb is now Sandringham.
There is quite a lot of information here including a map of Gipsy Village and another subdivision at Cheltenham called Two Acre Village. A map of Gipsy Village is included in the info.
http://localhistory.kingston.vic.gov.au/htm/article/123.htm
The cemetery at Cheltenham was established in 1865 however many early burials were in churchyards and your Edward is buried at St Andrews at Brighton. Only a few headstones survive and many parish records were lost or destroyed however there are 349 recorded burials.
RUSK Edward.
3 Dec 1854 56 years
Brighton St Andrews cemetery
Brighton St Andrew's Church of England cemetery
Memorials 1845-1948, Headstones 1844-1964, Burial register 9 Nov 1844 - 20 May 1856 Page#37
Death reg
RUSK Edward
Parents unknown
1854 55 years Born Cavan Reg#4858
Cheers
Cando
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Another resource gives his date of burial as 4 Dec 1854.
Some photos of the church and graveyard. There is no headstone for Edward.
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/vic/bayside/standrews.htm
Cando
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The RUSK family members appear to have been concientious about making wills ;D
There are serveral digitised for reading at this website.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
Sue
PS Adding death date recorded at this site as 3/12/54 which fits with burial date
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Hello Julie and welcome :D
Buried at St Andrews Church Brighton
Rusk Edward 1854 age 36years :-\
Raylen
Thanks to cando and Sue for adding information.
Looks like there might be a transcription error on this one.
Sorry if I mislead you Julie.
Raylen
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Thankyou sue :D they are my rusks in the will department, and that got one more question answered, although i cant look at the full record because the files are too big to download onto my phone! I really must get a computer lol and thats ok raylen, these rusks have been misleading me all over the country ;) there are two other branches in australia. A scottish one in sydney and brisbane and another irish clan in south australia that has the same first names as my victorian rusks. The main thing i am trying to find, is where edward rusk and elizabeth (i believe maiden name hartley, but not confirmed) were in county cavan. I found another son william, that arrived on the lady kennaway in 1850, and he said that he was from kill something or other, i cant read it :( there are many towns starting with kill in cavan as in ireland kill means church. Thankyou both for your help, i will keep digging :)
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And thankyou cando :) i only just seen your posts! As i said, doing this on my tiny phone, sometimes makes me miss things lol :-\
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The main thing i am trying to find, is where edward rusk and elizabeth (i believe maiden name hartley, but not confirmed) were in county cavan. I found another son william, that arrived on the lady kennaway in 1850, and he said that he was from kill something or other, i cant read
I suggest you purchase Edward's death certificate. You can purchase online [$20] and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
This will give you valuable information to help you validate your research eg place of birth, details of his marriage, names of all his children both living and deceased.
Their ages in 1851 on the HARRY LORREQUER passenger list were
Edward 44, Elizabeth 38, Robert 20, James 18, John 14, Edward 12, Henry 9, Richard 3 and Infant.
A William arrived in 1850 and was 21 years of age on the LADY KENNEWAY passenger list.
They were assisted passengers and there may be more information about the family at the Public Records Office of Victoria. You would need to visit their Reading Rooms to view the fiche.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24
Some RUSK deaths. Elizabeth died in 1897 and her Will only mentions three sons, Robert, John and Richard and a grand daughter Elizabeth.
Deaths
RUSK William :-\
Father John
1863 30 years Born Fern Reg#8307
RUSK Henry
Father Edward Mother Elizabeth HARTLEY
At Frankston 1885 43 years Reg#1478
Mistranscribed surname
RUSH Elizabeth
Father William HARTLEY Mother Annie McCOMBE
At Sandringham 88 years 1897 Reg#3116
RUSK Robert
Father Edward RUSK Mother Elizabeth HARTLEY
At Mordialloc 64 years 1912 Reg#15582
RUSK John
Father Edward RUSK Mother Elizabeth HARTLY
At Mordialloc 68 years 1903 Reg#2955
Argus Thursday 5 March 1903
Deaths
RUSK - On the 4th March, at his brother's residence, John Rusk, aged 68 years.
RUSK Richard
Father Rusk Edward Mother Elizabeth UNKNOWN
At Melbourne East 70 years 1918 Reg#13772
There are no RUSK headstones at Cheltenham Cemetery.
Elizabeth applied for land at Moorabbin
RUSK Elizabeth.
Gazetted 25 Feb 1876 Victoria Government Gazette Page #396
Comment - Applications for Grants Approved
Cheers
Cando
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Elizabeth died in 1897 and her Will only mentions three sons, Robert, John and Richard and a grand daughter Elizabeth.
When ELIZABETH died in 1897, she made special provision in her will for "my son WILLIAM"
One hundred pounds was left to the government for his "maintenance and support"
This is a possibilty for his death though the age seems not correct in regard to the passenger list.
RUSK Wm
Father Unknown
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 73
Death Place C Hill L A
Year 1902
Reg. Number 9019
Sue
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:o oh my gosh! I could kiss you both lol most of that information fits. On find a grave i found 'henry rusk b. Unknown d. Feb 22 1885 aged 43 years william rusk departed this life 28 sep 1902 aged 74 john rusk departed this life 3rd march 1903 age 68 also elizabeth rusk mother of above departed this life 4 march 1897 aged 89 also her son robert rusk b. 8th feb 1829 died 2 nov 1912 aged 83 years' all buried in the same grave i assume. At cheltenham pioneer cemetery memorial #90745908. As for elizabeth's grand daughter elizabeth, i believe she is the daughter of henry rusk and elizabeth clifford born 25 jan 1884 and christened at st. Stephens richmond. I believe she married robert hope elliott. My great grandmothers father was richard rusk, he married emma knight in 1889 in scarsdale vic. Emmas parents were george dyer knight b. Surrey england to joshua knight and catherine hance. Her mother was jane brown slater parents possibly matthew slater and jane king. I have so much info on the knights and other members in my tree but these rusks have been elusive. I hadnt been able to find richards death date, so thankyou so much :)
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Edward died as a result of an accident & there was an inquest:
RUSK Edward 1853 BRIGHTON
Reference: 335
Cause: Dray overturned On Him
Occupation: Adult
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Inquests also for William & Henry:
RUSK Henry 1885 LONG BEACH
Reference: 245
Cause: Pulmonary Apoplexy
RUSK William 1902
Reference: 1107
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At cheltenham pioneer cemetery
My resource does not include headstones in the Cheltenham Pioneer Cemetery. There are two cemeteries at Cheltenham ::)
Burials at Cheltenham Pioneer Cemetery
RUSK Henry 22 Mar 1885 43 years
RUSK Elizabeth 4 Mar 1897 89 years
RUSK William 28 Sep 1902 74 years
RUSK John 3 Mar 1903 68 years
RUSK Robert 2 Nov 1912 83 years
Just a comment on the inquest for Wm who died in 1902 at the Clifton Hill Lunatic Asylum aka Yarra Bend Asylum and Melbourne Asylum. It was routine practice for inquests to be carried out for all deaths in public institutions. There is usually little information on the death certificates.
RUSK Wm
Father Unknown
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 73
Death Place C Hill L A
Year 1902
Reg. Number 9019
Sue
As for elizabeth's grand daughter elizabeth, i believe she is the daughter of henry rusk and elizabeth clifford born 25 jan 1884 and christened at st. Stephens richmond. I believe she married robert hope elliott. My great grandmothers father was richard rusk, he married emma knight in 1889 in scarsdale vic. Emmas parents were george dyer knight b. Surrey england to joshua knight and catherine hance. Her mother was jane brown slater parents possibly matthew slater and jane king.
Do you have any certificates to validate your research?
Marriage
RUSK Henry born Co Cavan
CLIFFORD Elizabeth born Co Sligo
1883 Reg# 2018
There are no births registered to this couple and Henry died in 1885. However Elizabeth's death registration in 1955 gives parents Henry RUSK and Elizabeth CLIFFORD.
Her baptism is on IGI but her mother's surname is not recorded.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ott/
My great grandmothers father was richard rusk, he married emma knight in 1889 in scarsdale vic.
This Richard gives his place of birth as Victoria on the marriage registration however your Richard was born Ireland and arrived Victoria aged 3 years.
It would be a good idea to purchase this cert as the birth place may be mistranscribed and there is always the possibility it may have the birth place in Ireland. According to the shipping records and death registration, Richard was born c1848 so was 20 years older than Emma.
Marriage
RUSK Richard born Victoria
KNIGHT Emma born Scarsdale
1889 Reg#2971
Cando
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??? I dont have any certificates except my great grand mothers death cert. Jane rusk b. 1893 in sandringham victoria. Parents richard rusk and emma knight. She married harold goulbourne hangan in 1925. I have all of the hangan information which was very easy to find. Jane had brothers robert, richard john (jack) who died in 1915 and is buried in shrapnel valley, lone pine. brother harry who died a few years later brother george and edward. I think george had a shoe repair shop in heyfield from articles i have found on trove. I found two edwards that died with parents richard and emma. She also had sisters emma and elizabeth. I have photos of richard, emma and all of the kids. A hangan family genealogist told me that my richard was the one that arrived on the harry lorrequer and thats where i started from. I have seen a richard rusk b. In kensington hill victoria. I hope he is not my richard :( my great nana always said her family were from cavan and as her maternal grandparents were from scotland and surrey i thought i was on the right track.
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:) thankyou so much to everybody who posted replies about my rusk ancestors. It has answered so many questions for me. But, as always in researching ancestors, it is one question answered only to gain 10 more questions lol ;) i have found out from edwards death cert that he was born in county cavan 1799 to john rusk and mother unknown. But i have been left wondering why william rusk was in the yarra bend asyllym? Is there records kept for that sort of thing? Also, i am wondering what happened to the sons james and edward, as i have found no death records of them. My g-nana told me she had rusk relatives in canada, i was also wondering where i could find records of people travelling from au to canada in the 1800s. Also, richard rusk who died in 1918, had another son with emma knight that i didnt know about called james. I have not been able to find any info on him. Again, thankyou all so much, julie :)
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:) Also, richard rusk who died in 1918, had another son with emma knight that i didnt know about called james. I have not been able to find any info on him. Again, thankyou all so much, julie :)
Hi Julie,
Birth
RUSK Jas
1907 Kburra (Korumburra)
Father: Richd Mother: Emma Knight
Reg# 11795
Death
RUSK James
1970 63 years Geelong
Father: Richard Mother: Emma Knight
Reg#28912
Buried alone at Mount Duneed Cemetery
RUSK James
Date of Service 8/12/1970 Date of Death 5/12/1970
COE*1***143
Raylen
http://www.gct.net.au
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I can find a marriage in Victoria
RUSK Jas
STEWART Isabel
1932 Reg#447
I can't see a death for Isabel and she only appears with James on the electoral rolls
in 1936 at
626 Crisp Street ALBURY
RUSK Isabel Home duties
447 Macauley Street Albury
RUSK James pastrycook
and in 1937 at
Golf Links, Mascot Avenue Carrum
RUSK Isabel Home Duties
RUSK James Chef
Raylen
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Hi
JAMES RUSK joined the Australian Army and gives a Date of Birth as 2 Apr 1907
at KORRUMBURRA, VIC
He enlisred on 18 Mar 1942 and was then living at ARMADALE, VIC. His Next of Kin RUSK, ISOBEL
Sue
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Thankyou so much raylen and sue :) much appreciated.
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Hi Chrissy,
I'm searching for a grave of a John Boucher interred at the Old Melbourne Cemetery about 3rd June 1853. According to your letter he must have been an early burial.
His headstone was later re-erected at Fawkner Cemetery in January 1900. Not sure if his remains are as well.
I'm trying to get a photo of the headstone as it has a reference to Tasmania on it.
Can you help me.
Kind regards
clancam37
Tasmania.Hi next time I am at our library I will look up the indexes for you.
meanwhile thought I would give some info on Old Melb Cemetery and its replacement
Many people assume the first cemetery in Melbourne was the Old Melbourne Cemetery, whereas in fact it was Burial Hill, today's Flagstaff Gardens.
Willie, the child of James Goodman was the first person to buried in Melbourne, Port Phillip District. He was buried on 13th May 1836 at Burial Hill. This site was only used for about 6 burials.
It is not possible to visit the Old Melbourne Cemetery either, because it is located UNDER the present day Queen Victoria Market.
Bounded by Queen Street to the east, Peel Street to the west, Franklin Street to the south, and Fulton Street (which no longer exists) to the north, the Old Melbourne Cemetery was established in 1837 in West Melbourne. The first person to be buried on this site was also a child. He was Frederick William Craig, the infant son of Skene Craig. As Melbourne grew, this site was recognised as being too small and the Melbourne General Cemetery (or new Cemetery), that we know today, in Carlton, was established by an act of the New South Wales parliament in 1850 and was opened on 1st June 1853.
The Old Melbourne Cemetery was divided into areas according to religious denominations. Two acres each were given to the Church of England, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics and one acre each was given to the Jews, Quakers, Methodists and Independents. Later, half of the Quaker area was given to the Aborigines. The history of the Old Melbourne Cemetery ties in with that of the Queen Victoria Market, which was adjacent to it, and when the latter first expanded in 1878, it was the Quaker/Aborigine area near Fulton Street which it acquired first. A Crown grant was passed providing land for a general market on 4th March 1867. Today's meat hall dates back to 1869. The next 2 grants that provided more land for the market, were dated 1878 and 1880 (see Queen Victoria Market Lands Act 1996 - Act No. 78/1996 at www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au), and in the 1880's legislation was passed requiring all bodies in the Old Cemetery to be exhumed.
Identification of the burial plots was made difficult because the register of burials prior to 1866 was lost or destroyed. Many graves were unmarked. Others had 'headstones' of red gum, which had weathered away. From 1920-22, 914 graves with identifying monuments were re-interred at Fawkner, Kew, St. Kilda, Cheltenham and the Melbourne General Cemetery. Many of the headstones crumbled when shifted. At this stage, the cemetery was in a terrible state of neglect, with very long grass. The cemetery had been closed in 1854, re-opened in 1864 for the sale of new plots, re-closed in 1867, with the final burial taking place in 1917. It was closed permanently in 1922.
As there were about 10,000 burials on the site, there still remain approximately 9,000 people buried under the sheds and car park of the Queen Victoria Market. Every time work is carried out at the market, bones are disturbed. A memorial to these people stands on the corner of Queen Street and Therry Street. In 1996, the previous Crown grants were revoked and the Queen Victoria Market Lands Act 1996 came into being.
There are several books of interest to be found on the Old Melbourne Cemetery. Marjorie Morgan's own book, "The Old Melbourne Cemetery 1837 - 1922" published by the Australian Institute of Genealogical Studies in 1982, has names of people buried there. These came from transcriptions of legible headstones made by G. P. Townend in 1913-14. As a gentleman in the late 60's he saw the importance of making a record of these markers.
Isaac Selby wrote a book called "Old Pioneers Memorial History of Melbourne" in 1924, whilst the Royal Historical Society of Victoria's Historical Magazine, Volume 9, No. 1, pages 40-47 has an article on the cemetery. Another book, "Melbourne Markets 1841-1979, the story of the fruit and vegetable markets in the City of Melbourne" (Footscray, 1980), edited by Colin E. Cole has material on Melbourne markets.
Hope this helps a little
If i find anything I will let you know
cheers
chrissy
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You have quoted a date of Jan 1900...that appears to be the default entry if the date of the service is not known.
From GMCT website
The Old Pioneers section at Fawkner Memorial Park comprises 220 graves dating from the 1840s transferred from the Old Victoria Market cemetery site in 1922.
This chatter offers to take photographs at Fawkner
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675531.0
Cando
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Hi Chrissy,
I'm searching for a grave of a John Boucher interred at the Old Melbourne Cemetery about 3rd June 1853. According to your letter he must have been an early burial.
His headstone was later re-erected at Fawkner Cemetery in January 1900. Not sure if his remains are as well.
I'm trying to get a photo of the headstone as it has a reference to Tasmania on it.
Can you help me.
Kind regards
clancam37
Tasmania.
clancam have you read the replies on your other threads as yet? Just you havent acknowleged them and there could be some useful information in them.
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Hi Cando, Thanks for your offer to photograph the headstone. Much appreciated.
I did find the headstone on ancestry.com.auLibrary Edition at Hobart Library -- but could not enlarge my copy back home and could not re-read it. When I re-visited the Library I was unable to obtain the photo again. Locked out!
Thanks for your help.
Kind regards
clancam37
You have quoted a date of Jan 1900...that appears to be the default entry if the date of the service is not known.
From GMCT website
The Old Pioneers section at Fawkner Memorial Park comprises 220 graves dating from the 1840s transferred from the Old Victoria Market cemetery site in 1922.
This chatter offers to take photographs at Fawkner
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675531.0
Cando
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Hi giblet,
My apologies if I did not thank you for your reply. As "courtesy" is almost non-existent these days I do try to send notes of apprecation for all replies. My hyperlink facility often locks-up my computer, and need to ctrl-alt-delete to rectify. Will be more responsible in future.
I have had a look at your sites you referred to, they are very helpful.
However retrieving a photo of the old grave now at Fawkner eludes me, and so I was delighted when cando wrote to me. Thanks again for your help, and also the assistance you've given in the past re other "brickwalls" of mine.
Kind regards
calncam37
Hi Chrissy,
I'm searching for a grave of a John Boucher interred at the Old Melbourne Cemetery about 3rd June 1853. According to your letter he must have been an early burial.
His headstone was later re-erected at Fawkner Cemetery in January 1900. Not sure if his remains are as well.
I'm trying to get a photo of the headstone as it has a reference to Tasmania on it.
Can you help me.
Kind regards
clancam37
Tasmania.
clancam have you read the replies on your other threads as yet? Just you havent acknowleged them and there could be some useful information in them.
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The offer has not come from me ;) I do not live in Melbourne.
This chatter offers to take photographs at Fawkner
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675531.0
The only headstone photo I can find on the subscription website is for John [1860-1896] and Fanny BOUCHER [1863=1940]in the Dunolly Pioneer Cemetery, Victoria.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Dunolly.htm
The text on the headstone is difficult to read and I have taken the details from the research on several online trees.
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Cando,
Misread your letter, my apologies. have now written to Jillianstella re Fawkner grave photo.
Kind regards
clancam37
You have quoted a date of Jan 1900...that appears to be the default entry if the date of the service is not known.
From GMCT website
The Old Pioneers section at Fawkner Memorial Park comprises 220 graves dating from the 1840s transferred from the Old Victoria Market cemetery site in 1922.
This chatter offers to take photographs at Fawkner
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675531.0
Cando
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Ah now I see from your request for a photo at Fawkner that it is not on Ancestry but Billion Graves ::).
http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/JohnThomasBoucher/2299127
Illegible text
WILLIAM
IN MEMORY OF HIS FATHER
JOHN THOMAS BOUCHER
WHO DIED 2ND JUNE 1853 AGED 57 YEARS
LATE OF TASMANIA
Civil registration commenced in Jul 1853 however there is this parish record but the age is not a match. Only John BOUCHER death in 1853.
Death
BOUCHER John
Parents not recorded
At Melbourne 45 years 1853 Reg#21654
Denomination Church of England Parish St Mark's, Collingwood Fiche#332
Cando
Edit to add index entry of transcribed parish record.
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May I butt in please, and perhaps following from giblet's post and Clancam37's reply
clancam have you read the replies on your other threads as yet? Just you havent acknowleged them and there could be some useful information in them.
and reply
Hi giblet,
My apologies if I did not thank you for your reply. As "courtesy" is almost non-existent these days I do try to send notes of apprecation for all replies. My hyperlink facility often locks-up my computer, and need to ctrl-alt-delete to rectify. Will be more responsible in future.
Clancam37, may I please mention that on several of your current threads you have missed answering some questions that may have helped you with your John BOUCHER and his wife, Catherine MCDONNEL (and variations). I have contributed to some of those threads, and of course, I am curious as to if the info I posted has been of use . As you have not yet acknowledged those contributions, I and others reading the thread have no way of telling if YOU have read the info and if that info has been of help to you.
On one of your current threads, I referred back to comments you made less than four months ago on a thread that Cheran commenced. You wrote “I’d be happy to look up these names for you as I regularly visit the Hobart City Archives twice weekly for a Genealogist friend……. Quite voluntary”
Here’s a live link to one of those current threads:
MCDONNELL 63rd Regiment http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=684542.0
May I add, that I find that if the poster acknowledges my posts, then in turn I am encouraged to continue to strive to help them. I am sure that there are many RChatters who like me, simply like to know whether the information has been useful (or not). So, I find the courtesy of an acknowledgement of the contribution serves to indicate that is useful or not, and that courtesy of course extends not just to the person who searched for the info, but to others, now or in the future, as RChat threads are in the public forum and so very easily found via google searchings. Of course, it is best to acknowledge the contributions on the thread rather than by PM, as not only does it save you typing many thank you notes, but everyone can see that the OP is courteous, and appreciative of the efforts our fellow RChatters made.
Clancam37, may I commend you for your twice weekly visits to Hobart City Archives. May I please ask for you to find the spare moments and go back over your earlier threads and when you have the moments, please comment as to if the info I and others posted there has been helpful or otherwise. I am not looking for notes of appreciation, I am simply wanting to know if the info I am providing is of value to advancing each particular family history quest. The courtesy surely is in your willingness to provide that acknowledgement, and my willingness to learn where my own resources are less than adequate.
ADD
Vic BDM John BOUCHER, aged 19, registered in 1853, rego number #749.
Cheers, JM
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Apologies I should have written...only possible John BOULGER death in 1853 whose age is anywhere near the age on the headstone.
Barry you appear to be confused about the cemeteries. John was buried in the Old Melbourne Cemetery which opened in 1837. It was the Melbourne General Cemetery in Carlton which opened 1st June 1853 and one of my ancestors just happened to be one of the first burials :).
Cando
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Hi
I don't have anything to do with this site, stumbled on it looking for an ancestor, but I am amazed at the help that the poster Chrissy has given. There are some wonderful people on this earth.
Frances