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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mjb on Thursday 21 April 05 07:05 BST (UK)
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Dear All
Looking for information on Mary Pell Nichols and possible Ancestry. 1841 Census or parish records.
Mary born 1810 approx and John Father 1798 approx.
Any help appreciated
Thanks
MJB
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John NICHOLS married Mary PELL, 1 Apr 1807 Guilsborough, Northants
Mary's parents are:
William PELL, chd 29 Jan 1751, Guilsborough
Anna HADDON died abt 21 Oct 1815 (src Northampton Mercury)
m. 8 Oct 1781, Guilsborough
They were members of the Independent Baptist Church - so their children are not baptised CofE.
William's parents were:
William PELL, born 19 Jun 1713, chd 12 Aug 1713, Guilsborough
Rachael LANDAN, of Nasby, buried 31 Oct 1782, Guilsborough
m. 9 Jun 1746, Oxendon, Northants
William (b1751) was the 2nd of 6 children
William's parents were:
William PELL, of Moulton, buried 13 Sep 1728, occ Tallow Chandler in Guilsborough
There is a big gap in the Moulton parish registers - so I don't have William's baptism
Elizabeth BATEMAN, of Guilsborough
m 19 Oct 1700, St Sepulchres, Northampton
William (b 1713) was the 7th of 9 children
William's parents were:
Martin PELL, chd 7 Dec 1634 Hannington, brd 1 Feb 1705 Moulton, Northants
Elizabeth, brd 17 Jul 1714, Moulton
Martin left a Will that identified his daughter Mary, sons William & Samuel and Wife Elizabeth.
Martin's father, William PELL of Hannington, which makes the connection between the PELLs of Moulton and the PELLs of Hannington. The PELLs can be traced into the 1500s in Hannington, but the accuracy is a little uncertain
Martin's son Samuel is my ancestor.
Oh, and there were at least two John Nichols associated with Guilsborough. One born circa 1796 and in West Haddon as an Ag Lab in the 1851 census. He is only 11 years old at Pary Pell's wedding.
The other is a Builder and Auctioneer based in Guilsborough. This is the one that Mary Pell married.
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I am looking for a William Pell of Guilsborough; however, his wife was Elizabeth Lee of Kilsby, Northamptonshire.
She was named as a daughter of Andrew Lee, the Elder, of Kilsby in his Lee's Will of 1720. Her brother was Andrew Lee, the Younger of Watford. She had another brother John Lee of Kilsby.
Her mother was Ruth (maybe the one who died in 1726 Rugby)
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Possible children of William Pell, a mercer/chandler of Guilsborough and wife Elizabeth Lee
1. John Martin Pell b.17 Mar 1700 Guils.; bd. 24 May 1778
2. Elizabeth Pell b. 30 May 1704 Guils.
3. Kezia Pell b. 13 Jan 1706 Guils.
4. Andrew Pell b. 23 Sep 1709 Guils.
5. and 6. Twins: Wm and Thomas b and bp. 23 Dec 1710 Guils.
7. William Pell b.19 Jul 1713 Guils.
8. Samuel Pell b. 8 Feb 1715 Guils.
9. Mary Pell b. 17 Dec 1719 Guilsborough.
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Hi Keith, Interesting. I haven’t had a look at the Pells for a while. I don’t have any agenda as to which Elizabeth was the mother of William Pell’s children. But it there are corrections to be made then that should happen.
Firstly, the only relevant marriage record relating to the event.
“Marriages Anno Domini 1700
“…
“William Pell of Moulton & Elizabeth Bateman of Guilsborough were married October the 19th day.”
=St Sepulchure parish register, Northampton, England
The marriage register does not indicate whether either party was previously married.
Further, William Pell’s father was Martin Pell. Martin Pell’s Will states that William has a son named “Martin”. I take the “John Martin Pell” of the baptism records to be this Martin. (Martin was an unusual name in the Pell families of the time.)
Further to the connection between William Pell, Tallow Chandler, and Martin Pell of Moulton we have the following apprenticeship abstract:
“Pell William, son of Martin, Moulton, Northamptonshire, yeoman, to Ralph Field, 4 May 1692, Tallow Chandlers' Company “
= English Origins - London Apprenticeship Abstracts 1442-1850
However, the discussion is not over William, But rather about who was his wife.
Was she Elizabeth LEE (as Andrew LEE’s Will claims) or Was she Elizabeth BATEMAN as per the marriage records. OR Was she both…
I can suggest 2 possibilities.
1) Perhaps Elizabeth LEE had a 1st marriage with a man named BATEMAN and the marriage to William PELL was a 2nd marriage
I haven’t found a marriage between Elizabeth LEE and unknown BATEMAN
2) Perhaps there really was an Elizabeth BATEMAN and she died and William married again – this time to Elizabeth LEE.
I haven’t found a marriage record between William PELL and Elizabeth LEE/
I have seen a number of instances of quick 2nd marriages where there were children to support. It could have happened here.
The lack of a marriage record is a problem.
Also, in 1701 there is a Marriage record for William BULL and Elizabeth LEE. It is remotely possible that William BULL was indeed William PELL or that Elizabeth LEE did, in fact, marry William BULL.
Personally, I think that the 1st possibility is the more likely – That she was previously married to a man named BATEMAN.
Steve Nethercote
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Further to my previous message... There was an Elizabeth Bateman baptised in Guilsborough in 1672 who is a good candidate for being the 1st wife...
So perhaps possibility 2 of the previous message is more likely.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Thank you very much for your reply and posing questions.
Have you purchased this Will?
Number 236
First name(s) William
Last name PELL
Birth year -
Year 1728
Place Guilsborough
Country England
Type Inventory
Book or box loose
Reference Archdeaconry Court of Northampton:Wills, Administrations and inventories, and accounts
Record set Northamptonshire And Rutland Probate Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Wills & probate
Collections from Great Britain, England
Here is the wording of Andrew Lee's Will of 1720
Item I give and bequeath after my death and my wife’s death, forty pounds unto my daughter Elizabeth Pell, the wife of William Pell of Guilsborough, in the County of Northton and to be paid by my Executor after named, in six months after the death of me or my wife Ruth Lee
but she was not to get the money until her mother died (maybe 1728 Rugby) which indicated that she was not in need of the legacy in 1720.
My guess is that Elizabeth Pell died in Watford and buried in Guilsborough. She also had a Will.
Number 05 Apr
First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name PELL
Birth year -
Year 1758
Marital status or occupation widow
Place Watford
Country England
Type Will
Reference Archdeaconry Court of Northampton:Wills, Administrations and inventories, and accounts
Record set Northamptonshire And Rutland Probate Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Wills & probate
Collections from Great Britain, England
Regards,
Keith
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Hi Keith,
I don't have either of those Wills. Most of my research in this area was done around 2001 and jointly with other people interested in the family. They had (or have) some Wills that I don't have. I am no longer in contact with them.
Steve
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Thank you Steve
I have a few more Wills to buy of Lee people around Kilsby and Watford first.
I have an article on Andrew Lee, who may be Elizabeth's brother on the Watford Village site.
As the surname of Elizabeth is not given at the bap of all the chn, then it still remains possible that Wm Pell married Elizabeth Bateman but then the marriage date Oct 1700 may have been after the baptism I found for the boy John Martin Pell Mar 1700. Anyway, there is nothing to say that Elizabeth Bateman did not die as the birth of the second child was 1704 and Wm Pell has married Elizabeth Lee and thus, the following chn have a mother called Elizabeth as well. There were Bateman's over Kilsby way, but this research area of Kilsby is knew to me.
Keith
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Hi Keith, As I hope you are aware there were two date systems operating in this time - Legal and Civil.
Legal dates run from 1 Jan to 31 Dec.
Civil dates run from Lady day to Lady Day - so about 28th March to 27th March.
So a civil date of 17 March 1700 was the same as a legal date of 17 Mar 1701.
So 17 March 1700 was more correctly shown as 17 March 1700/1
from 1755 everybody used the legal date system.
In my record keeping I use legal dates all the way through - its less confusing. In the notes field I record the civil date.
In legal date terms William and Elizabeth married in Oct 1700 and John Martin was baptised in March 1701.
Baptising a baby 5 months after the marriage may suggest that the marriage was under duress.
"Andrew" is an unusual given name in the Pells of this time. If Elizabeth Lee replaces Elizabeth Bateman I would suggest that this would probably have happened before Andrew was born.
Steve
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Thank you Steve
To be honest, I did not known exactly the difference and I also came across Lady Day and Andrew Lee's Will started with both nineteen and twenty written
In the name of God Amen, the eight day of January in the fifth year of the Reign of our most gracious Sovereign Lord King George, by the grace of God of Great Britain, France and Ireland, King Defender of the faith, and in the year of our Lord God, one thousand, seven hundred and nineteen & twenty.
A number of my ancestors were Quakers; and I know that in some of my research a child was born on the 3rd month called ...... etc.
I am also trying to transcribe an Indenture for Ann Luck in Canterbury 1756, and I was struggling a little like the Feasts of the Nativity of Saint John, the Baptist, St. Michael the Archangel, the birth of our Lord Christ and the Communication of the Blessed Virgin Mary
[the Annunciation of the birth of St. John was the 24th. March and the Feasts may be the 3 month day thereafter, that is, 24 June of each year] or within fourteen days next, after every of the said Feasts]
As my research is taken me further back, transcribing is obviously becoming difficult, although I think that I have got masting fatte as masking vat correcting in this above Will.
Did John Martin Pell have a family? Maybe one of his line may have an answer or two.
If you do look into the possibility of Elizabeth Lee beinthis particular Wm Pell's wife, then I am now trying to see which house in Kilsby her brother John Lee inherited and only a token of 5 shillings.
I have a feeling that the father Andrew and his wife Ruth have moved into the second house, thus handing over the main hall house to the son; thus why my Andrew Lee was inherited much of what was in the second house.
And goods I give to my wife Ruth Lee in my hall house and in the Buttreys in the hall house, one round little table marked with a E and a M and the spites and cob urns for the fat to run upon and the brewing pan and in the Buttrey, one so due fruse and two meale sives and a great round cover to coule drink or do anything else.
compared to
Item I give and bequeathe after my death unto my well beloved wife Ruth Lee, some particulars of my household goods and they are here set down in order as followeth:
Keith
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Steve
Interesting, what is the connection to Andrew's daughter Elizabeth. May be your sought has merit and she was the widow of a man named Bateman, when she married William Pell.
Andrew Lee of Kilsby, on the 4 Nov 1699, a husbandman/farmer, was a surety for Benjamin Bateman.
Keith
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Steve
Actual wording
I think the issue is now solved:
Name: Bateman, Benjamin Elizabeth Bateman Andrew Lee Thomas Cattell William Griffin Andrew Hinde
Dates: 4 Nov 1699
Place: Guilsborough Kilsby, Northamptonshire, England
Book: Date. Persons. Burials. (Burial)
Collection: Northamptonshire: - Administrations, Archdeaconry of Northampton, 1667-1710
Volume: Northamptonshire Administrations of the Archdeaconry of Northampton 1677-1830
Chapter: 1699
Text: Bateman, Benjamin, of Guilsborough, tallow-chandler, gt. 04 Nov 1699 to Elizabeth Bateman, of same, widow, the relict. Sureties, Andrew Lee, husbandman, Thomas Cattell, labourer, both of Kilsby. Inv. £106 15s. 10d. taken 25 Oct 1699 by William Griffin, Andrew Hinde. (62)
Keith
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Hi Keith, yes, it does look rather solved. Still, I would like to see the probate document.
I am unaware of John Martin PELL having any family. He was buried at Daventry on 24 May 1781. The burial register notes that he was from Guilsborough.
Dates are always interesting. We tend to regard them as universal. But, in fact they are an invention and different cultures and countries make their own variants. In Scotland they went to Legal Dates a lot earlier than England.
Do you have birth/baptismal info for Elizabeth?
Steve
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Hi Steve
No, I do not have the bp for Elizabeth Lee (my guess c1678 , John Lee guess c1680 nor Andrew Lee c. 1687 the Younger).
Last night, I paid for the Will of John Lee, a yeoman of Kilsby 1748, who I hope will be Elizabeth's brother.
I already have Andrew Lee, the Younger, d. 1735 of Watford, the younger brother. He mentions a brother John Lee of Kilsby and an uncle John Lee of Watford in his Will. He first wrote his Will in 1722, that would have been after his first wife died Elizabeth Manning of Milton Malsor, as he inherited her family property, so I suppose he was then making sure that it went to son John Manning Lee, my next ancestor. In my Rees lines, Manning and Lee get to become middles names everywhere, including my daughter Ana Lee Rees some 200 years later.
I helped an English relation do a project 2 years ago to mark his company's 350 years anniversary, if he had called it: 350 years Alexander Manning to George Manning Rees to Alexander Rees, his ancestry, we would have won instead of a second place.
I also paid for the Will of John Lee of Watford, died 1727, who I suspect will be Uncle John, that is, Andrew Lee, the Elder of Kilsby's brother.
I may now have your email address; however, I will not send my transcription of Andrew's Will until you give me permission to contact you by email. That is the way, I try to remain ethical.
Regards,
Keith Rees
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Hi Steve
A new piece of information, taken from Murray Johnston's book this year: The Watford Knight's Fee The Manors of Medieval Watford, Northamptonshire ....
The book transcribes an Indenture dated 11 Frb 1696, the sellers being Dame Dorothy Francklin, nee Clerke, and her husband and sisters..
John Lee acquires messuage or tenement and Close or homestead; three yardlands of land. I have interpreted this to be Lot 35 and about 27 acres, just south of Watford village, and known to be the Lee freehold land. This John Lee will be the uncle of Elizabeth Lee (Mrs. Bateman) and then Mrs. William Pell (d. 1757).
This John Lee had no children, so Elizabeth Pell's brother Andrew Lee (d. 1737) inherited this land and it was passed onto his son John Manning Lee (d.1777), and then John Lee (d. 1802) and his wife Alice Abbey.
Now the point of interest concerning the Pell family
On p. 238, Murray writes that By 1805, after Reeve died (another local farmer), the netherend farm was occupied by John Pell .....
It looks like Alice Lee, the widow of John Lee has asked John Pell to help her run the farm. Thus, most likely John Pell was a cousin of her deceased husband, maybe one of the boys from the Daventry family of Pells, which was not too distant.
Alice Lee died in 1807, then as per her husband's wishes, the children of David Rees get their hands on the land. David Rees had married two of John Lee's half sisters. It stayed in Rees hands until 1841.
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Purchased Will of Elizabeth Pell 1758.
Daughters named as Elizabeth Smith of Welton (Thomas); Keziah Tebbutt of Coaton/Coton (John); and Mary Hearne of Guilsborough (John). Andrew Pell, the son died; however his widow Elizabeth was left 3 pounds; John Martin Pell alive as was brother William Pell, tall chandler in Guildsborough.
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Found some possibilities for Kezia Pell or Mrs. John Tebbet in Coaten, near Guilsborough. Would like to see if you had more descendants farming near Coaten, just out of Guilsborough.
Her death: Kezey Tebut, widow of Coaten bd. 20 Aug 1772 Guilsbourough.Husband John Tebut, the Elder of Coaten bd. 23 Jun 1763 Guilsborough.
Children:
1. John Tebbot bp. 19 Jul 1738; buried 26 Feb 1739 of Coton
2. John Tebbet bp. 22 Nov 1741 Ravensthorpe????? m. 13 Feb 1769 Martha Johnston of Guilsborough.
1771 Militia List farmer of Coton
3. Elizabeth Tebutt bp. 15 Nov 1747 of Coaton, bp. Ravensthorpe
John Tebbett and Martha may have had chn:
1. William Tebbett bp. 22 Apr 1774 Guilsborought; buried 3 May 1774 Guilsborough
2. Samuel Tebbett bp. 8 May 1775 Guilsborough
3. Martha Tebbett bp. 27 Jun 1780 Guilsborough
Any assistance most welcomed.
I can confirm that Mrs. Elizabeth Pell, Kezia's mother was in Watford when she wrote her Will 9 Apr 1752. She was buried 30 Nov 1757 Guilsborough. Her Will was proved 5 Apr 1758 Watford.
Her nephew John Manning Lee and her niece Elizabeth Lee lived in Watford at the time she wrote her Will, with John Lee and another relative John Andrew as her executors.