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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham Lookup Requests => Durham => England => Durham Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Angelines on Friday 11 March 11 09:33 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I have also posted this on the Lanarkshire board, Scotland.
I am having a problem finding my family of Hall's on went north to Glasgow and because they married here thought I might try posting it here too.
Margaret Ann Hall married a John Hall in Hebburn April 6 1891, Margaret Ann Hall was born in Portadown, Armagh in 1865 and moved to Walker, then to Hebburn with her family. On marriage cert is only states both of full age, father of John Hall being a Robert Hall, labourer. Father of Margaret Ann Hall being Thomas Hall, labourer (I have family of Thomas Hall originating from Armagh, Ireland)
Margaret and John Hall had children below;
Mary Ellen Hall born 1891.......awaiting confirmation of birth but am sure its Jarrow
Margaret Hall born 1892 Glasgow
Robert & John Hall (twins) born 1895 John died aged 2 in 1897
Thomas Hall born 1897
Alice Hall born 1898
Annie Hall born 1905
John Edward Hall born 1909.
I can not find this family anywhere on the 1901 census, hence asking for help in locating them as this is so important. Family have told me that John Hall snr left the family soon after John Edward was born in 1909 and moved back to England, he never returned to the family in Glasgow.
I think I may have found him back in Hebburn (if I have the correct John Hall) living with his sister Eleanor Hall. This is where it all gets muddled, Margaret Ann Hall born 1865 had a brother Thomas James Hall and he married Eleanor Hall in 1893.
As I do not have much info on John Hall husband of Margaret Ann Hall it is proving to be a real problem trying to trace him.
Can anyone help in locating this family anywhere in 1901 as they seem to have vanished, but they lived and married and had familes in Glasgow.
Any help at all wouldl be much appreciated, many thanks, Angeline xxx
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Hi,
Thought I would add what I know of the Hall's that came from Armagh late 1860's
Thomas Hall and Mary McKinney married in 1857 Ardmore Church of Ireland.
Thomas Hall died April 1902 living with son Samuel.
Mary Hall died Jan 1891.
They lived at the following places via census:
1871-Alkali Houses, Walker, Northumberland
1881-20 Station Road, Hebburn
1891-31 Station Lane, Hebburn, With Thomas (dad widow 57)
Thomas J (brother aged 26)
Margaret A (aged 24)
Elizabeth (sister aged 23)
Samuel (brother aged 20)
1901-Thomas Hall living with Samuel at 56 Station Road, Hebburn.
They had the following children;
William John Hall b 1858 Armagh
Mary Jane Hall b 1860 Armagh
Thomas James Hall b 1863 Armagh-married Eleanor Hall 1893 St Oswald, Hebburn-Eleanor widower of John Barnshaw.
Margaret Anne Hall b Portadown, Armagh 1865-married JOHN HALL (need to find this John Hall and family)
Elizabeth Hall b Portadown, Armagh 1867
Samuel Hall b 1871, Walker, Northumberland-married Bridget Sutton 1891.
I would love to find out more about John Hall, husband of Margaret Anne Hall, all I know is his name the rest is just a puzzle and it is looking like it fits but need to be sure. John Hall's father is Robert Hall and looking at the marriage of John and Margaret their 1st born son was Robert.
John and Margaret Anne got married the day after the 1891 census, if anyone has a John Hall who married a Margaret Anne Hall, both had the same surname would you please reply as I really need to find out more about John.
Many thanks, Angeline xx
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Hi
What address does John give on his marriage certificate?
evie
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Hi Evie,
Have the marriage cert and it does not give an address!!!!! just says of the parish St John's, I also tried to get hold of the banns but was told they only have them dating from the 1960's nothing before that. I rang the church too but they could not help either.
I have a theory that Margaret Ann may have married Eleanor Hall's brother John, its all very mixed up. Margarets brother Thomas James married Eleanor after she was widowed and she and Thomas James have a John Hall living with them in Hebburn in 1901. This is only a theory that Eleanor's brother John and the one who married my Margaret Ann are the same, hence the importance of finding them in 1901. They are nowhere to be seen on the Scots census for 1901, have also checked Ireland and numerous Hall's around Durham.
John Hall is stated as being a widow with Thomas and Eleanor in 1911, but then again if this is the one that married Margaret would it not seem odd for Thomas (not knowing how much contact siblings had with each other back then) that his sisters husband living with him, also no children with him, being 50 you would have thought there might have been some with him.
I am in contact with a relation of Eleanor Hall and she can not find her John Hall in 1901 either, it so adds up but yet we have no proof but we are both of the assumption that the John Hall she has and the one that married my Margaret Anne Hall are the same. Eleanor Hall and John Hall having a father named Robert Hall and my John Hall also having a father named Robert Hall.
It's all a puzzle and I really need to find my family on the 1901 census to tie it all together, thanks Angeline xx
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Yes what a puzzle indeed!
What occupation did John give please on certificate seeing that address wasn't very helpful. Any clues with the witnesses?
evie
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Hi Angeline
Just a theory about why the family are not on the census.
Have you searched Co Armagh at that time 1901 to see if Margaret Ann
is over there. If you look at the dates of the childrens ages, they are nearly
all about 2 years. Then from 1898 there is no child until 1905 which is a long
7 years without any children. Just wondered if John had gone to sea, or
Margaret had gone to Ireland even to give birth?
Did it mention on the marriage certificate the occupation of John? If he
was something like a seafarer or marine worker he could have been off on a
ship somewhere.
I dont know if these are yours but I did find a John Hall and Margaret Ann with
a child Annie Hall being christened in August 1900 but at Dalton le Dale, Durham.
regards Sandymc
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Hi Evie,
Yes indeed it is a puzzle, John Hall's occupation is stated as a Labourer and the witnesses were a Samuel Hall and Jane Lewis. I am assuming Samuel is Margaret's brother and have no idea who Jane is, I tried looking for a Jane Lewis on the census in 1891 and found her I think just being a servant and from Ireland.
My John Hall who married Margaret is stated as being a steel worker in Glasgow at times of childrens births and then later on a bricklayers labourer. Funny thing is on his childrens marriage certs ranging from 1911-1936 some have him listed as being deceased and some do not, also on Margarets death in 1920 she is not listed as a widow and he is stated as being bricklayers labourer.
Oh just noticed I have put John Hall with Thomas and Eleanor in 1901 I meant the 1911 CENSUS on this John Hall is stated as being a building labourer................
Angeline xx
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HI Sandymc,
yes I have tried looking in Ireland but no such luck. I noticed the gap in years of children too and it made me wonder also.
I dont know if these are yours but I did find a John Hall and Margaret Ann with
a child Annie Hall being christened in August 1900 but at Dalton le Dale, Durham.
regards Sandymc
Oh do tell me more please about these, where abouts is Dalton le Dale as I have no knowledge of this area really.
Thanks Angeline xx
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Hi Sandymc,
I think I found the family you mentioned just now are they are not a match......so the search continues...thanks anyway Angeline xx
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Hi Angeline
Still cannot see them in 1901, I think they were probably in transit somewhere :-\ I know that is no help, sorry.
You probably have this but the John Hall you saw in 1911, I believe is in Hebburn in 1891 as a lodger, so that doesn't help either.
RG12 Piece 4169 Folio 117 Page 34
evie
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Hi
This is clutching at straws ::)
In 1881 the widowed mother of Eleanor Hall I believe is living John St which is in the parish of St Cuthbert. Could this have been mistaken for St John's on John's marriage certificate?
In 1891 the only address I could find was Johns Street which is now in the parish of St John's.
evie
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Hi Evie,
Yes have that John Hall lodging, what a nightmare I am having tryng to find these lovely people. I can not work this out, maybe once the 1911 census comes out in Scotland I might have a bit more info, still a puzzle why I can not find them anywhere in 1901 though.....lol.
Thanks for you help, it means alot Angeline xx
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Had help from Monica on Lanarkshire board and she found them in Glasgow using mothers maiden name for some strange reason, all sorted now. I also collected poor relief records from Glasgow confirming my John Hall as the one I thought he was, mothers maiden name being Cuthberston, many thanks to all xx
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Hi Angeline.
This is a reply 6 years later :o
Can I confirm with you that Margaret Ann Hall married Eleanor's brother John Hall??? and this John is your John Hall (the same John Hall who gave birth to Mary, Robert, Alice, Thomas, Annie etc).
Eleanor is my great great grandmother (descended from her first marriage). I have an M Cuthberston or Cuthbertson listed as Eleanor's mum, and Robert Hall being her dad..... which makes John Hall my great great grand uncle
I have no info on this second marriage, so it's going to be interesting to find out if Eleanor married her brother Johns wife's brother Thomas James Hall
Cheers,
Rob
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Hello Rob,
Wow, 6 years on and a reply. I do love this and Rob I can confirm that your Eleanor Hall married Thomas James Hall m 11/3/1893 South Shields. Thomas James Hall being the brother of my ggreat grandmother Margaret Ann Hall.
Angeline x
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Excellent. Many thanks for that Angeline :)
My immediate family don't seem to have Eleanor's brother John written down for some reason, so this is all good information.
Relationship-wise, this would make John's wife Margaret my great great grand aunt, and as you are Margaret Ann Hall's great granddaughter, this would make you my '3rd cousin once removed'
Rob
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Fabulous Rob,
Margaret Ann Hall is my great great grandmother. She died young and John left her alone in Scotland to raise their children alone. It’s a very sad story and I’ve yet to find out what became of him. He left the family and never returned. Some things excite you and warm your heart when researching and other things you find out have you in floods of tears. This poor family like many others during this time went through so much.
I have a copy of Thomas and Eleanor’s marriage certificate if you’d like one, welcome to the family x
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Thanks Angeline, and greetings from Somerset :)
I think great great might mean 4th cousin? (we might even be around the same age)
I printed out the following terms chart to try and work it out:
https://3apq7g38q3kw2yn3fx4bojii-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/cousin-once-removed-1.gif (https://3apq7g38q3kw2yn3fx4bojii-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/cousin-once-removed-1.gif)
As I dig around for more information to build up the family tree, I'll be sure to let you know if I find out anything interesting on Eleanor's brother.
If you have a spare copy of that certificate, I'd be very grateful, thanks very much!
I think this site will allow me to send private messages? Some sites don't allow until a certain number of posts. I will try and PM you my details...
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Evening Rob,
Oh if you manage to find out any info on John Hall I’d be extremely grateful, thank you x