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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: exessexgirl on Tuesday 08 March 11 15:09 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
A fellow rootschatter has given me the following information regarding transported prisioners from England.
Found these........... England & Wales, Criminal Registers ................
1820 Herts Lent Assizes, William Catlin, Larceny, 7 years, transportation
1810 Herts Lent Assizes, William Catlin, Sheep Stealing, by verdict not guilty
3/3/1841 Herts Trial, William Catlin, b1815, Poaching in the night time, 3m imprisonment
1848 Herts Trial, William Catlin, b1830, Stealing from the person, not guilty
1826 Herts Lent, George Catlin, Sheep Stealing, Death
(next line............)
1826 Herts Lent, George Males, Sheep Stealing, Death
(written underneath "Males" is/could be "als George Catlin")
1831 Herts Michealmas, George Catlin, Larceny before convicted of felony, Life Transportation
(next line............)
1831 Herts Michealmas, George Males, Larceny before convicted of felony, Life Transportation
(written underneath "Males" is/could be "als George Catlin")
.
Any ideas how I can find out what happened to any of them ?
Thanks -- Lyn
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George CATLIN/MALES are listed on:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
Item Number: CON31/1/30 View this record online
Added info:
bottom of page 99
Leanne
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you search the Tasmania Convict records online
you will see a couple of your Catlin's went to Tasmania
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
Jenn
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Hi,
The William Catlin transported in 1820 on the Juliana had completed his time in 1827 and received his certificate ( I assume certificate of freedom).
Hobart Town Gazette 1827
Saturday March 10th 1827 page 7.
GOVERNMENT NOTICE.
Colonial Secretary's Office, March 7, 1827.
"THE Period for which the undermentioned persons were transported having expired , Certificates
have been granted to them accordingly.---"
William Catlin, Julianna.
I can't see anything more for a William Catlin in Tasmania after 1827 although I haven't checked the newspapers so he may have moved on to the mainland.
Regards
Gerry
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It is possible they went to the mainland, as suggested. There are Catlins in the early NSW bdm records which you might look at - www.bdm.nsw.gov.au
Searching is free.
Diana
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...1826 Herts Lent, George Catlin, Sheep Stealing, Death
(next line............)
1826 Herts Lent, George Males, Sheep Stealing, Death
(written underneath "Males" is/could be "als George Catlin")
1831 Herts Michealmas, George Catlin, Larceny before convicted of felony, Life Transportation
(next line............)
1831 Herts Michealmas, George Males, Larceny before convicted of felony, Life Transportation
(written underneath "Males" is/could be "als George Catlin")
Any ideas how I can find out what happened to any of them ?
Thanks -- Lyn
Hi,
I noticed that George Males/Catlin (police no. 991M) and George Catlin (police no. 1398C) keep appearing together. When you view some of the original records it becomes clear that these two individuals were cousins who were tried together for Sheep Stealing. Both were received on the Prison Hulk 'Cumberland', and subsequently discharged from the vessel on the 26th March, 1832. Both were transported for 'Life' to VDL aboard the ship "England'.
According to CON 31/30, George Males/Catlin died at the Colonial Hospital on 12th November, 1833.
According to the Colonial Tasmanian Family Links website, a George Catlin died in Hobart, Tasmania in 1873. The record notes that he is from 'Hereford', born abt 1811.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=79181
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Hi duinns, diana, aussie, tropical, ennael.
Thank you all for taking the time to follow up on my query for me. I've taken a look at the sites you so kindly provided links to, and bookmarked them :) My Catlins came from Hertfordshire, and I also have some of the Males family also from Hertfordshire.
Duinns part of the details you gave me included the following Both were transported for 'Life' to VDL aboard the ship "England'.
Would you know what VDL stands for ?
Regards .. Lyn
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Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania).
Debra :)
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http://www.millingtons.com.au/records-search
this is a link to the Hobart Cemetery
you will see that George Catlin in buried as a pauper and he was aged 62
Jenn
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Thank you tropical & Debra.
Van Diemen's Land - I should have known that :-[ Thank's for the link to the cemetery Jenn. I may find there's some link to the Catlins in my tree. thank you both for your help.
Lyn
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In the early 19th century it was usual for death sentences passed for crimes other than murder and the like to be commuted to transportation for life. The idea was to build up the population of Australia.
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Thanks for your input redroger.
Lyn
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Hi all,
I must admit I am interested to find out more about George Males (i.e. occupation, wife and children if any, etc).
For a decade now I have been trying to identify a George Males who suddenly turns up at Finsbury St Lukes in 1826 to have his 7 year old and 1 year old baptised. His wife is named Sarah and was born around 1796. They have another child in 1829 and by 1835 his wife is a widow and remarried. His occupation is alternatively a butcher and a car-man.
One theory I have is that the convict George Males and my George Males may be the same. Finsbury St Lukes is close to the end of the northern livestock and staging route into London (perfect for a rustler). The confusion over whether he was a butcher or a car-man suggests a sort of wandering meat dealer (again a fit). The transportation and death also fit my George Males strange, unrecording death. I'm probably just clutching at straws, but don't have much left now.
regards
Greg
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Another ticket of leave, this time in 1841 for a George Catlin:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2956695?searchTerm=%22George%20Catlin%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
A conditional pardon being sought for another one in 1847
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/65981888?searchTerm=%22George%20Catlin%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
PM
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Hi Greg,
Welcome to RootsChat ;D ;D ;D
I'm probably just clutching at straws, but don't have much left now.
You sound like a broken man, but you might just be right. George MALES who was transported in 1832 was married and his wife's name was Sarah.
His conduct report
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-30,153,99,L,80 (bottom of page)
Transported for stealing wood - Gaol report Character? bad - Disposition? good
Capitally convicted before - Hulk report Orderley - Married - Stated
this offence Stealing Wood - Once for stealing a sheep 12 months - proper
name Catlin - Wife Sarah at Native Place near Hertford - married.
The conduct record says that he was tried at Hereford, but all other records state Hertford. It seems that the sentence of death for sheep stealing in 1826 was commuted to 12 months imprisonment for both him and his cousin. Cousin George's conduct record:
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-7,470,158,L,80
Have a look at GM's tattoos - 1826 appears to have had some meaning for him
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON18-1-6,300,157,L,80
The Appropriation List shows that he was assigned to work for B. WATSON at Pittwater.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON27-1-5,126,27,L,80
His burial:
George MALES
Died: 15 Nov 1833
Registered: Hobart, Tasmania
Registration Number: 3168
Debra :)
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My relative William Luffman was transported for highway robbery in 1832, death sentance commutted to transportation for life. He was granted a ticket of leave in early 1841 and died shortly afterwards.
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Hi Lyn
"The record notes that he is from 'Hereford', born abt 1811."
& you say
"My Catlins came from Hertfordshire, and I also have some of the Males family also from Hertfordshire. "
I've found that non-English people often confuse Hereford and Hertford, thinking they are the same place.
Dawn M
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Greg, I think you have found him. You seem to have put a chain of evidence together, which is probably as good as it is going to get, the burden of proof often has to be "On the balance of probability" rather than "Beyond a reasonable doubt". I am a little surprised that Hereford and Hertford were confused in the early period of Australia, as the migrants were mostly from the British Isles.
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Well it's probably all in the pronunciation, Redroger!
There were nationalities other than English, too. Plus by 1830s and 1840s there could be two generations of native born who wouldn't know the difference.
And there are still lots of people who don't. Just because something is well known in one part of the world doesn't mean it will necessarily be so, in another part of the world. :D :D :D
Dawn M
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That intrigues me Dawn, who were the other nationalities please? I thought the early settlement of Australia was from the UK in its entirity, apart from Richie Benaud that is!
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That intrigues me Dawn, who were the other nationalities please? I thought the early settlement of Australia was from the UK in its entirity, apart from Richie Benaud that is!
May I butt in please ;D
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/caesar-john-black-12829
If religion can be a pointer to nationality just looking at surnames A - C:
Mohammedan followers included:
William BONO ex the Active of 1820
John BOXO, ex the Mary Ann of 1805
Abraham CULLEN ex the Friendship of 1816
Malay followers included:
Abraham ANTHONY, ex the Mary Elizabeth 1828
Abraham BACON, ex the Guildford 1824
Roger de COVELY, ex the HA WEIS 1827
Hindu followers included:
Ramdial (unsure of family name) ex the Mary of 1818
The British sphere of influence post 1776 caused the remaining British Territories to organise for their locals under sentence of transportation to be shipped to the new penal colony of New South Wales. So for example Courts (including Courts Martial) in Bermuda, Caymen Islands, British Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat, Antigua, St Kitts, etc ... well these were some of the places where convicted persons, under a secondary sentence or under a severe initial sentence may have come from :D
Redroger, it is a very very good question, and there's many generations of school teachers in NSW who have allowed their students to believe that those who were transported to our shores were ONLY white Anglo-Saxons from the United Kingdom.
There is also a school of thought that recognises that as the English Slave Traders were being abolished, their ships Masters and Crew were transferred to the transportation of convicts to NSW. And of course crew could jump ship :-X
Trivia :
1788 the First Fleet arrived. Was Ireland part of the United Kingdom at that time? NO, it wasn't. It was merged in 1801.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798
http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/rebels.htm
Cheers, JM (NSW centric = please do not ask me to recite in the correct order ... (or to remember all of them either) the names and dates for the Kings and Queens of England. I learnt it at school, but .... senior moments prevail ;) )
PS, this is a brief overview, of course the majority of those transported were "British Stock". :)
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I nearly forgot James Squire, a Romani, and Arthur Phillip, son of a Frankfurt chap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Squire
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/phillip-arthur-2549
There's plenty more, but ...
Cheers, JM
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And Billy Blue was a negro transported from England, probably originated (or his family did) in Jamaica.
And no I'm not black - he married a very fair English woman and I've got her colouring.
But his type of hair according to my hairdresser! Strong and thick.
Dawn M
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;)
Gov Macquarie preferred Billy Blue's ferry services over my forebear's ferry services ;)
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Are you descended from Berry?
I shan't hold that against you ;D ;D ;D ;D
Dawn M
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:) Now how could a Bowman connect to a Berry ;D
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:) Now how could a Bowman connect to a Berry ;D
That would depend on the size of both the arrow and the berry I would think! However, majm thanks very much for the details, the situation is much as I expected really.
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And Billy Blue was a negro transported from England, probably originated (or his family did) in Jamaica.
And no I'm not black - he married a very fair English woman and I've got her colouring.
But his type of hair according to my hairdresser! Strong and thick.
Dawn M
Dawn, I think it is most likely your ancestor's people originated in West Africa, and came to Australia via the West Indies.
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Red, I think you are right but we'll probably never know.
A cousin in Canada had his DNA tested and it showed "deep West African roots".
My grandson thinks it's a real hoot, having such an ancestor!!
Dawn M
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I and 10 others with the surname Luffman have had Y chromosome DNA tests, the result so far 11 different lines! Though it is quite a rare surname perhaps the multiplicity of lines is not surprising when the origin is taken into account. It means Lover!!
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Red! :
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :P :P :P :P :P
Dawn M
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Red! :
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :P :P :P :P :P
Dawn M
It's a long walk to Oz Dawn :( ;)
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And you'd need to be able to walk on water!
;D ;D ;D
Dawn M
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And you'd need to be able to walk on water!
;D ;D ;D
Dawn M
Well my son's former bank manager thought I was God! pm coming.