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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: franflynn on Friday 04 March 11 14:14 GMT (UK)
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I have been doing my family tree john johnson gt gt grandfather who i need info on. My sister 2 weeks ago went to Pearce st library and was able to find through Thoms 1869 Dublin directory he was still running a business at 79 Coombe dublin it was a spirit and grocery shop. after that year he seems to have vanished ive gone through the Abbey st deaths certs and up to now had 5 johns johnsons but they are not the right person. John johnson was married to Teresa on their marriage certs they had both been widowed and it seems Teresa maiden name was law less then she married a man called Egan widowed and married Johnson. Sadly for Teresa who had a baby girl of 1 year old and after giving birth to her 2 child on her death cert it said death through her confinment. I would be ever so grateful if anyone could find out if j johnson was on any of the Dublin directories as i have the marriage cert of his daughter 1884 and it said father deceased but we never could find out what happened to the baby born to my gt gt grandmothe Teresa . I do hope to come to Dublin this year and any info would help me Thanks
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I'll check Thom's 1872 for you later on, and see if there's any sign of John at that address.
which date and church is shown on the marriage cert for John Johnson and Teresa Lawless ?
Shane
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Are you sure the baby girl lived? What was her date/year of birth and name if known
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Two possible children of John and Teresa from the extracted record collection on familysearch :
Name: John Patrick Johnson
Birth date: 01 Nov 1867
Birthplace: Dublin, Ireland
Reference : 640, No 3 South City, Dublin
Name: Ellen Teresa Johnson
Birth date: 07 Apr 1866
Birthplace: Dublin
Reference : 0728
Parents for both are John Johnson and Teresa Lawless
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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Yes Shane the baby girl lived as shes my gt grandmothe but we never could find her baby brother john patrick we wonder did he die like his mother Teresa as baby john was born a few days before his mother's death
fran
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Shane my gt gt grandparents married at Francis St RC church on jan 8 1865 and also on looking at my gt gt grandmothers death cert she died at home address 79 Coombe . I have also been on the glasnevin site found Teresa but not her husband.
Shane the business 79 Coombe is a pub my sister looked went there to ask if anyone had any info on this address its now callled the Lamplighters we just wondered when John Johnson lost his wife he was still there in 1869 how could we find out if maybe he went to America as when i spoke to my mother years ago a mention of the usa came into our conversation sadly mother is not around Shane like us all i do wished i had listened more when she spoke of our family . Thanks
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Have you looked into this man as a possibility for baby John Patrick?
John Johnston aged 30 on 1901 Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Golden_Lane/1341166/
He is the only entry of Johnson or Johnston in the correct age group born in Dublin that seems to match
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Chancery_Lane/63543/
This looks like the same man in 1911
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Ah thanks for that i did try this person sadly hes not the one.
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just one listing for John in the directories I have, but there is an additional address :
There's no sign of John in 1872 trade index, the street listing for the Coombe address is as follows :
1872 - 79 Coombe, John Marony - grocer & spirit dealer
also at 1 Brabazon St (same listing there)
1868 - 79 Coombe, John Johnson - grocer & spirit dealer
also at 1 Brabazon St (same listing there)
(also in the trade's index)
1863 - 79 Coombe - Teresa Keegan - grocer & spirit dealer
1 Brabazon St - Teresa Keegan - grocer & spirit dealer
Brabazon street is off the Coombe. No 79 seems to be a block or two away from the junction of the two streets.
Shane
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Thanks Shane i really appreciate your work you do for this site i now know he d left the Coombe i just have to keep searching for him. My sister enquired would Teresa Egan before she married my gt gt grandad name have been misspelt as we only have her maiden name lawless then egan and Johnson.
Fran
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One detail to watch out for with directories is that they could sometimes be a little out of date... so it is possible that John died before 1869 or even 1868.
What's the latest record you have for him ?
Marriage certs would usually mention a wifes' former surname and maiden name. You can usually tell which is the maiden surname by checking her father's surname on the cert.
Shane
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Shane for john johnson my sister who is helping me found his name in a dublin directory i think it was 1869 . When he married my gt gt grandmother Teresa her maiden name is lawless as i found on her marriage cert her fathers name was Timothy lawless and giving her address at 79 coombe.
John johnson as my mother used to say he went to the states and had money but when his daughter ellen married someone he didnt approve of left her no money again this is hearsay Shane on Ellen's marriage cert to Richard Bowes dated 1884 john johnson was down as deceased . Ellens address was given as Tenters fields what area was that in my sister said it might have been near the Coombe . Thanks fran
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Tenter fields was near to Leonard's Corner - just to the north west.
It's shown on the c1890s OSI Map (25" Historic) : Tenter Field's (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714586,733024,7,9)
Shane
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Thanks Shane that address was given in 1884 would it still be there i had heard of the tenters around Donore ave it that near to Tenters fields.
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Tenter Fields were some kind of Market gardens, but the area was build over at some stage.
Donore avenue is quite close to the the location, and slightly to the west.
Shane
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Shane ive just looked on tenters fields it was great to see the area on the map some of those streets have come up for my ancestors on the 1901 and 11 Census like chambers st and Brown st i now know the family all seem to have lived around the Coombe. Would you know Shane what site if i wanted to look for passengers going to usa around 1870s im going to try for john johnson .
Thanks Shane
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for immigration records to the the USA during the 1870s you can try Castle Garden. It was the major centre in the New York area before Ellis Island opened. There were other routes to the USA including through Canada.
The WebSite is : http://www.castlegarden.org/
The earlier records can be very basic.
Shane
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The Tenter fields would have taken their name from where the weavers in the area would have their cloth stretched out for drying.
Here's a bit of history of the area:
The Tenters:
At a later stage in its history the Liberties became a Huguenot settlement. The Huguenots were French Protestants who suffered religious persecution and fled to Ireland in 1685. They were skilled weavers who created an industrial centre in the area. They started their business around the area now called Weaver’s Square. They taught the people of Dublin how to weave silk and poplin. At first, everything seemed to prosper and many more people came to live in the area. However, difficulties arose because of the Irish weather. The cloth needed to be stretched and dried on tenter hooks in the fields between what is now O’Curry Avenue and Clarence Mangan Road. In 1814 Thomas Pleasants built a stone Tenter House on the land between Cork Street, Brickfield Lane, Brown Street and Ormond Street. The success of Dublin poplin was disastrous for the English cotton and woolen industries. The English Government issued new rules (no material may come to Ireland without first coming through England) and new taxes. This eventually caused the weaving industry in Dublin to decline. This area was still an open field at the beginning of this century. After the decline of the linen trade, the land was used for market gardening until the houses in the Tenters were built around 1922; the year of construction has been marked on the front walls of some of the houses. Many of the street names in the Tenters have literary associations, e.g. Oscar Square (after Oscar Wilde), Clarence Mangan (after James Clarence Mangan, the poet), Ingram Road (after Sir John Kells Ingram, the poet). The houses in Rutledge Terrace were built between 1898 and 1910 by Robert and Andrew Rutledge, the same builder who built houses in Francis Street and Golden Lane.
On another note before the Lamplighter pub on the Coombe took that name it was known as The Weavers.
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Thanks Deccam for that info on the Tenters Fields .
Shane i looked on castlegardens.org no luck for John Johnson i put in dates for 1869 to 1884 and his occupation.
thanks again for given me that site to view
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Shane still looking for info for john johnson but i wonder could you help me with this request please ' On his daughter Ellen johnson marriage cert to Richard bowes dated 1884 in st Catherines church meath st her address was given as it looks like 1 Tenters fields and Richard was 2 tenters fields what i was wondering who she lived with till her marriage she was only 18 and i did wonder was she employed in that house as i do know by the 1901 census Richard was a painter as was his father Timothy BOWES. Is there anyway you could find out who was living in 1 and 2 tenters fields in 1884 as it might give me some info on ellens family at that time. thanks fran
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Details of Tenter's Fields are not listed in Thom's on 1884, but there is a listing for Tenter Lane which mentions the fields. No mention of any Johnson or Bowes households, although they could have been tenants (or employees) of one of these houses :
Tenter Lane - from Weaver's Sq to Sterling Lane
Civil Parish of St. Catherine
1,2 & 3 Mr. Keogh, Grocer
Samuel Fairbrother, Tenter Field's - engineer and millwright
Mr. William F. Byrne, Tenter House
Mr. T. Gorman
Mrs. Marshall, Lullymore House
[tenements], Poplar Lodge
Tenter's lane was at the northern part of the fields, near to where Brown Street is now.
There are a number of records on IrishGenealogy with 'Tenter' in the address that might provide a clue.. doesn't appear to be street numbers on any of them - see Tenter, Parish Records, Dublin City (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name=&location=tenter&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search) All the results are Church of Ireland at the moment, but maybe some RC ones will show up in a future update.
Shane
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Thanks Shane I ll will look up the irishgenology site
fran
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shane i was lookin on family search search records for john johnson and as he was widowed from my gt gt grandmother who died in 1867 i did find a marriage info for a j johnson date 1874 south side dublin that s the area i have found him living up to 1869 is there anyway i could find out if this is his marriage that would make it the 3 one as he was a widower when he married my gt gt grandmother in 1865.
I have when i was in Dublin last August bought up to now 6 marriage and deaths copies for j johnsons but none of them are the person i want. I have gone into the Glasanevin cemetery site and found my gt gt grandmother s grave my sister went to visit only to find work was going on around the site we wanted to see. Shane I did find a j johnson address area was grangegorman it did nt say if he was living at the hospital how could i find out more is that hospital still there ? I would be pleased for any info on this . Thanks fran
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i was lookin on family search search records for john johnson and as he was widowed from my gt gt grandmother who died in 1867 i did find a marriage info for a j johnson date 1874 south side dublin that s the area i have found him living up to 1869 is there anyway i could find out if this is his marriage .....
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Probably the best way to try to confirm a possible marriage would be to check the occupation for this John Johnston - hopefully a grocer or vintner of somesort.
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I did find a j johnson address area was grangegorman it did nt say if he was living at the hospital how could i find out more is that hospital still there ? I would be pleased for any info on this
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where was this reference ?
Grangegorman ran from Brunswick St to the North Circular Rd and included the Female Penitentiary and Richmond Lunatic Asylum.
Shane
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Shane
I got that info on john johnson when i went into the glasnevin cemetery site i paid for a search it did give me a grave number and age with an address granggorman.
Shane do i have to go to abbey st for the copy of john johnson marriage (hopefully the one i want) as you say his occupation might tell me i m on the right track or is there any other way i could find this info.
Thanks fran
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do i have to go to abbey st for the copy of john johnson marriage (hopefully the one i want) as you say his occupation might tell me i m on the right track or is there any other way i could find this info.
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I think a marriage cert may be the best way to tell if he's the correct John Johnson. Hopefully the address or occupation will be good clues that you can compare to the details you already have. There are certainly other people in Dublin named John Johnson around at the time, as you've already found out, so these details will hopefully help confirm or rule out the marriage. You may also be lucky with the names of witnesses - they can be family or relations you may have come across in other searches.
Do you have the index references from familysearch ?
If you do, then you only need a brief visit to the GRO office as you can use these details to order a cert as soon as you arrive. It's best to arrive at 9:30 as they open..
Parish records on www.irishgenealogy.ie might be useful, if a known address etc crops up, but RC records dont include occupations - so can be difficult to prove a connection with common names. Further RC records are due to be added later this year.
Shane
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Thanks Shane ill keep searching
fran
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Shane Ive searched through the Griffiths V Site for Johnson and I remember been told that sometimes the spelling might be different like adding a T which is Johnston well on my gt grandmother s marriage cert to Richard Bowes their addresses were given as Tenter Fields(Lane ) 1 & 2 that was 1884 well on the Griffiths V Site 1854 1 & 2 Tenter Lane the person living at those addresses were Anne Johnston who was landlord to many of the houses in that area. When my gt gt grandmother died it was said John Johnson left his daughter Ellen with his sister and as we have been looking for info on John maybe he did stay in that area is there anyway of finding out if Anne Johnstone was related to Ellen
Fran
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Hi Shane
I just want to know how do i find out my gt grandfathers Richard Bowes mother's maiden name as ive got the year he was born 1862. He was a house painter on the 1911 dublin census his fathers name was Timothy Bowes but ive tried the geneology ie church site but no luck there. He married my gt grandmother Ellen Johnson in 1884 in the church St Catherine but im trying to just get Richards mother name so i can move on with my search . Shane i did find a Timothy Bowes married to a Ellen Keogh living in the Rathfarham area in the 1860s 70 they were the parents of children born 1864 onwards but no 1862 . It looks like the male Bowes around 1911 happened to be painters and decoraters . i d be delighted with any help thank Fran
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Unless you want to try searching through microfilms in the National Library, your best option for finding a baptism is the Irish Genealogy website. They plan to add further details soon. Hopefully a couple of the remaining city RC parishes will be added when they do this.
Shane
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Thanks Shane ill keep looking through that site
fran