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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: rwenman on Friday 04 March 11 07:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Friday 04 March 11 07:16 GMT (UK)
I am attempting to trace the history of my grandfather (I live in the US).  His name was Arthur George Wilkins, (I believe he was born in 1896, although I found the following records associated with his mother Lucy, who was shown on the 1901 census being married to George Skelton, possibly the father of Arthur.   If anyone out there is willing to take on a challenge, and help my trace the history of arthur Wilkins I would appreciate it.(see below)



Next: (Lucy marries James Wilkins, and has three children, Ethel, David, and Amy, living near London?  Odd how each child seems to be born at a different location every 2 years.   I cannot find any additional history on James, other than I have some old notes of daughter Amy that  James was in the Irish guard.  Not sure what happened to James.  Does anyone know how to trace the Irish Guard listed men?)
1891 RG12 Piece:402 Folio:49 Page:54    
37, Conroy Street, Lambeth
WILKINS, James D Head Married M 33 1858 Painter Wilton Wiltshire
WILKINS, Lucy G Wife Married F 28 1863 Laundress Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Daughter F 6 1885 Aldershot Hampshire
WILKINS, David John Son M 4 1887 Pimlico London
WILKINS, Amy E S Daughter F 2 1889 Westminster London

Next:  this is where it gets most interesting.  For whatever reason, Lucy leaves James and moves to Grimsby.  The notes from Amy says she was a housekeeper with a man named "Barker".  I can't find any listing of a Barker.  Any help here is much appreciated.)

Next:  this is the first listing in the census of my grandfather w/ Lucy, but with a man named "Skelton".  Any help finding a birth certificate for Arthur to confirm father would be much appreciated.
1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON, Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire

Next: The 1911 census shows Lucy married to Hazelgrove, w/ Arthur, and daughter Phyllis.    I would appreciate any help locating a birth certificate for Phyllis to confirm father.  Also, Arthur last name is listed as Wilkins.  Although notes from Lucy's daughter shows that Barker was possibly Arthur's father, maybe it was more likely Skelton?  So I guess the only way would to rely on a birth certificate?  Can anyone think of any other way to confirm the father of Arthur?)
1911 35 Addison Road Fleetwood
HAZELGROVE, Stephen Head Married M 61 1850 Cooper Dock Lincolnshire Gt Grimsby HAZELGROVE, Lucy Wife F 49 1862 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Arthur Stepson M 14 1897 Assistant Cooper Dock St Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, Phyllis Daughter F 4 1907 Fleetwood Lancashire

Next:
(I did a search on Hazelgrove, and found him listed in the 1901 census with Eliza. Any confirmation of marriage, and/death of Eliza appreciated.)
1901c census
HAZELGROVE Stephen 1849 Grimsby Occ. Cooper
Eliza wife born 1837 Louth Lincoln living at 122 Hamilton St., Clee, Grimsby

Next:  Lucy marries Hazelbrove in 1912, although census lists them as married in 1911.  I also find this odd since daughter Phyllis was born in 1906.
FreeBMD there’s only this marriage 1912 Fylde for
Stepehen G Hazelgrove to Lucy WILKINS .  

Next:  this may explain why Lucy did not marry Hazelgrove until 1912, since Skelton was listed at a residence (w/out Lucy) in 1911.
this may explain why Lucy didn’t marry Stephen until 1912 George alive in 1911

1911census
SKELTON,[/b] George Boarder Widower M 47 1864 Fisherman Alford Lincolnshire
living with Hales family at 125 Rutland St Grimsby ???


Next: No idea where to go with this information, but George Skelton is listed in 1881 census married to Sarah Ann Todd :-\
1881c George  born 1865 Farm Servant (Indoor) Alford Lincolnshire, he’s single. Possible marriage  Mar qtr 1886 Caistor 7a 806 George Skelton names on same page
Sarah Ann TODD/Anselm Rnealson Parker
George has a dau. on 1891 named Sarah Ann born 1885 Grimsby
"Curious what my have happened to Sarah Ann Todd and her daughter.


any help with this is very much appreciated!

thanks :)

Rob




Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Tati on Friday 04 March 11 07:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Rwenman,

FreeBMD has this birth - any use?
Arthur George Skelton
Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626
(Caistor district covered Great Grimsby until 1897)

Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Tati on Friday 04 March 11 07:48 GMT (UK)
Looking at the Hazelgroves on www.freebmd.org.uk

The one death I can see on FreeBMD:
Eliza Hazelgrove age 75
Mar 1912 Grimsby 7a 841
Another possible reason why Stephen and Lucy didn't marry until 1912 ...

Stephen and Eliza were married in 1870:

Marriage Jun 1870 Louth 7a 1249
Stephen George Hazelgrove - Eliza Mitchell

Matches this 1871 census:

1871
RG10/3414 109 12
Grimsby, Lincolnshire
29 Cobden

Stephen Hazelgrove, head, 21, Cooper, b. Lincs Gt Grimsby
Eliza, wife, 34, b. Louth
Ann Mitchell, dau, 14, servant, b. do.
John Mitchell, son, 13, school, b. do.

A quick 1861 census check shows that Eliza was previously married to a John Michell, that her maiden name was apparently Vickers. (Seems she was actually born ca. 1831)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Friday 04 March 11 15:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks,

with the help of this site, I am pulling this together.  I also appreciate the reference to the web sites for my on-going research.

Rob
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Saturday 05 March 11 08:39 GMT (UK)
More on HAZELGROVE:

I found this notice of death on Eliza

1911
Eliza Hazelgrove age 75
Mar 1912 Grimsby 7a 841
Another possible reason why Stephen Hazelgrove (who was married to Eliza) and Lucy didn't marry until 1912 .

1870 marriage Louth for
Stephen George HAZELGROVE to Eliza Mitchell, looks as if wife Eliza married  before as on 1871 she’s age 34 with Stephen age 21, dau Ann 15, son John Mitchell 13



More on SKELTON
1881c George Skelton,  born 1865 Farm Servant (Indoor) Alford Lincolnshire, he’s single.
Possible marriage  Mar qtr 1886 Caistor 7a 806 George Skelton names on same page
Sarah Ann TODD/Anselm Rnealson Parker
George has a dau. on 1891 named Sarah Ann born 1885 Grimsby

1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON,
Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 or 1885 (mother: Sarah Ann Todd?) Grimsby Lincolnshire 
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire

Not sure what happened to Skelton? He does show up in the 1911 census:
1911c
SKELTON, George Boarder Widower M 47 1864 Fisherman Alford Lincolnshire
living with Hales family at 125 Rutland St Grimsby

After this not sure what happened to him, and what happened to his wife Sarah Ann Todd (mother of Sarah shown in 1901 census:
1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON,
Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 or 1885 (mother: Sarah Ann Todd?) Grimsby Lincolnshire 
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire


James Wilkins:

Lucy marries James Wilkins in 1883
1883 marriage entry Sep qtr. Woolwich vol. 1d page 1660
Lucy Ellen RILEY name on same page James WILKINS

they show up in 1891 census:
1891 RG12 Piece:402 Folio:49 Page:54    
37, Conroy Street, Lambeth
WILKINS, James D Head Married M 33 1858 Painter Wilton Wiltshire
WILKINS, Lucy G? ('E') Wife Married F 28 1863 Laundress Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Daughter F 6 1885 Aldershot Hampshire
WILKINS, David John Son M 4 1887 Pimlico London
WILKINS, Amy E S Daughter F 2 1889 Westminster London

Not sure what happened to James Wilkins?  ??? It seems odd that each child was shown with a different location, but likely they were renters who moved a bit.  I would appreciate help finding a death certificate or military registration, other on James Wilkins?

thanks on helping me solve this mystery. :)

Rob


Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Tati on Saturday 05 March 11 09:22 GMT (UK)
looks as if wife Eliza married  before as on 1871 she’s age 34 with Stephen age 21, dau Ann 15, son John Mitchell 13
I mentioned Eliza's previous mhubby and maiden name earlier.

I'm afraid we don't really know enough about Sarah Ann Todd to tell what happened to her. You'd have to get hold of George Skelton's marriage cert to find out more about her, to decide for instance if this could be her death: Sarah Ann Skelton age 21 - Jun 1889 - Caistor 7a 367

 :)
 
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 05 March 11 15:47 GMT (UK)

1883 marriage entry
Sep qtr. Woolwich vol. 1d page 1660
Lucy Ellen RILEY
name on same page
James WILKINS

1891 RG12 Piece:402 Folio:49 Page:54    
37, Conroy Street, Lambeth
WILKINS, James D Head Married M 33 1858 Painter Wilton Wiltshire
WILKINS, Lucy G? ('E') Wife Married F 28 1863 Laundress Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Daughter F 6 1885 Aldershot Hampshire
WILKINS, David John Son M 4 1887 Pimlico London
WILKINS, Amy E S Daughter F 2 1889 Westminster London


This looks to be James’ birth entry FreeBMD

James David Wilkins Wilton Mar qtr. 1857

And possibly with his parents on 1871 census

David James Wilkins
11/11/1835 St. Thomas Portsmouth
father James mother Elizabeth


1871
Vauxhall Bridge Rd, St John The Evangelist, Westminster
WILKINS, David James Head 1836 Portsmouth Hampshire Steward Royal Navy
WILKINS, Sarah Wife  1833 Wiltshire
WILKINS, James D Son 1857 Wiltshire
WILKINS, Mary Ann Dau 12 1859 Westminster Middlesex
WILKINS, David Son M 3 1868 Middlesex

1881 102, Vauxhall B Rd, St Margaret & St John The Evangelist Westminster
WILKINS, Sarah Head Widow F 45 1836 Ironer Salisbury Wiltshire
WILKINS, David Son Single M 13 1868 Newspaper Boy London Middlesex
WILKINS, Walter Son Single M 9 1872 ScholarLondon Middlesex
Plus two lodgers

1891 102, Vauxhall Bridge Road, Westminster
WILKINS, Sarah Head Widow F 58 1833 House HolderWiltshire
WILKINS, Walter Son Single M 20 1871 Waiter Westminster Middlesex

Looks as if James & Lucy had two other children from IGI familysearch beta

Walter Frederick Wilkins

17/11/1887 Surrey
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

Winifred Daisy Wilkins
18/09/1891 All Saints Lambeth
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

FreeBMD
Death Dec. qtr. 1891 Lambeth
Winifred Daisy Wilkins age 0


Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Sunday 06 March 11 04:02 GMT (UK)
 ;Dfantastic, give me a while to take all this in.
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 08 March 11 16:13 GMT (UK)
deleted info. as added twice  ::)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 08 March 11 16:21 GMT (UK)

Arthur George Skelton

Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626

(Caistor district covered Great Grimsby until 1897)


Probably the only way to are going to possible find who the father is of Arthur is to obtain his birth or marriage certificate - hopefully mother Lucy has named the father.

Difficult to say whether the birth entry above is your Arthur it does look promising.  As Arthur's middle name is George that might indicate that George Skelton is his father.

On your Lancashire post   'Help on tracing Peter Sanderson b 1832 Carleton'  you mention that Gertrude (father James Penswick mother Margaret Sanderson) marries Arthur George Wilkins

Do you have access to this marriage certificate?
If not an option would be to order this and see who Arthur has named as his father.
   
Unfortunately, as far as I can see Lancashire OPC do not have the entry - St. Chad's Poulton Le Flyde marriages only go up to 1900 - you would need to purchase the certificate unless someone can help with a look up at the record office in Preston, Lancashire

Here are the details from Lancashire BMD
PENSWICK Gertrude/WILKINS  Arthur George   St. Chad Poulton-le-Fylde, Registers at Preston reference number   FJ/3/203

Here are the details from FreeBMD
Dec qtr. 1919 Flyde Vol 8e page 1777
Arthur George Wilkins
Gertrude Penswick

Here's a picture of the church from Lancashire OPC

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Poulton-le-Fylde/index.html


This is where it gets most interesting.  For whatever reason, Lucy leaves James Wilkins and moves to Grimsby.

The notes from Amy says she was a housekeeper with a man named "Barker"

This is the first listing in the census of my grandfather w/ Lucy, but with a man named "Skelton".

1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot  SKELTON, Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire


As Arthur was born after 1891 census and before 1901 census difficult to say whether Lucy was expecting before she's on the next census (1901) with George Skelton.

As no marriage found Skelton/Wilkins perhaps she meet George while expecting (maybe by father named Barker ) and he took her and the Wilkins children in and when Arthur was born she gave him his name. ::)

When she left George Skelton for what ever reason after 1901 and meets Stephen Hazelgrove then marries him 1912. She gave daughter Phyllis Elizabeth Hazelgrove surname of Wilkins (1906) which would seem to indicate Stephen Hazelgrove to be her father. Lucy's maiden name was RILEY - Lucy Ellen Riley married James Wilkins in 1883.

Before 1911 census perhaps after birth of Phyllis 1906 Lucy then changed her and  Arthur's surname from Skelton back to Wilkins because she was not married to George Skelton only living with him sometime after 1891 census.

The only way I can see to unravel your mystery is with Arthur's birth record and hope that Lucy has named the father.

I would assume on his marriage certificate he is likely to name the person known to him  :-\
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Wednesday 09 March 11 05:10 GMT (UK)
My Aunt Joan has Phyllis's birth certificate in her records, and will take a look again to see if Lucy is shown as a Hazelgrove, Skelton, or Wilkins.

From the letter from Amy Wilkins, seems as if she remembered Barker, so it sounds as if Barker was around for awhile. 

I think you may be right on Lucy and her moving in with skelton, but as you said we still need Arthur's birth certificate.

I wonder if I can order it from the Grimsby Registars office?

thanks again, more to ponder tonight.

Rob
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Wednesday 09 March 11 05:14 GMT (UK)
Oh, thanks for the photo..I did find it online.  This is where my Aunt Joan brought my mother's ashes to be spread amongst the roses.  She and her husband were just on a big trip across the US when my mom died, so they came and I asked them to bring them back to the church where she was baptized. I hope to go there in the next year. :)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Wednesday 09 March 11 14:54 GMT (UK)
I just spoke with my mom's cousin who confirmed that the birth certificate she has for Phyllis Hazelgrove, shows that Lucy put James Wilkins down as the father.  Seems less likely since they were did not show to be together at least during the 1901 census:

1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36   
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON,
Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 or 1885 (mother: Sarah Ann Todd?) Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire

Still, the letter from Lucy's daughter explains that Phyllis is the daughter of Lucy and Hazelgrove. 

Still working on getting copy of Arthur's birth certificate to see what it has on there.

Also, I haven't found a death certificate for Lucy's first husband, which might shed some light on this, along with more information on the two children Lucy left behind with James when she came to Grimsby:

Walter Frederick Wilkins
17/11/1887 Surrey
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

Winifred Daisy Wilkins
18/09/1891 All Saints Lambeth
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 09 March 11 17:19 GMT (UK)
Looks as if James & Lucy had two other children from IGI familysearch beta

Walter Frederick Wilkins

17/11/1887 Surrey
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

Winifred Daisy Wilkins
18/09/1891 All Saints Lambeth
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

FreeBMD
Death Dec. qtr. 1891 Lambeth
Winifred Daisy Wilkins age 0


daughter Winifred won't be on any census with James & Lucy as she had died during or shortly after birth

I would have thought that son Walter would have been with them on 1891c  there are these entries on FreeBMD can't say if the death entry is the same Walter Frederick

birth
Walter Frederick Wilkins
Dec 1887 St. Geo H Sq

death age 0
Walter Frederick Wilkins
Dec 1887 Strand

Difficult to say if any of these death entries are for James David Wilkins between 1891 & 1901 daughter Winifred was born 1891 Lambeth perhaps he died in the London area

death possibilities for
James Wilkins

1896 Lambeth age 51      (1845)
1896 Pancras age 46       (1850)
1897 Marylebone age 47 (1850)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Wednesday 09 March 11 21:03 GMT (UK)
George Skeltons marriage




St. John's Cleethorpes Road   28/02/1886
   SKELTON   George  age 21  a    fisherman  of  Victor St Grimsby
Father...   Peter  a   labourer   
                TODD   Sarah Ann  age  19   of  Victor St  Grimsby
Father...   Richard  a   labourer   

  Wits;  Frederick Mingay CHAPMAN  and    May FELSTEAD               
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Thursday 10 March 11 02:44 GMT (UK)
How odd that both children Walter Wilkins and Winnifred Wilkins died within a few months of age, but I guess that was not all that unusual?  Then Lucy seems to have left after Winnifred died.

Not sure what happened to Sara Skelton (Todd) or did I miss that somewhere?  Also interesting that they lived off Cleethorpes Rd. which Lucy's daughter Amy said in her letter is where they lived.  Still, that is the main road in town near the waterfront.
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 March 11 07:34 GMT (UK)
I had found the following census with a Sarah Ann SKELTON but hadn't posted

We know that George's fathers name is Peter from the marriage entry from Barleymow, so this must be her with her grandparets

1891 RG12 Piece:2626 Folio:54 Page:10     
The Grange, Broughton
SKELTON, Peter Head Mar 1837 Ag. Laborer Fordington Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1832 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Ruth Dau 15 1876 Hagworthingham Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Peter Son 1881 Scholar Harborough Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Sarah A Granddaughter 1887 Grimsby Lincolnshire George’s daughter

Can’t locate George SKELTON on 1891 census
As he’s a noted as a Fisherman on marriage & later censuses perhaps he was away at sea on night of 1891 census   :-\

1881 Head John LOCKING
SKELTON George 16 Alford Lincolnshire Farm Servant (indoor)

1871
The Rectory, Brigsley
SKELTON, Peter Head 1836 Fordington Lincolnshire Ag. Labourer
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1840 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Mary A Dau 10 1861 Lincolnshire
SKELTON, George Son 1865 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Thomas Son 1867 Lincolnshire
SKELTON, William Son 1871 Lincolnshire
More children by 1881c Jane, Ruth, Sarah E & Peter Skelton

1861c Rookery, alford
SKELTON, Peter Head 1835 Ag. Labourer Lincoln Fordington
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1840  Lincoln Alford
SKELTON, William Son 1859 Lincoln Alford

Peter SKELTON (parents Peter & Rebecca from 1841c)
Naomi VICKERS (parents John & Jane from 1851c )
Marriage entry FreeBMD - Sep qtr. 1858 Spilsby Lincoln

Not sure what happened to Sarah Skelton (Todd) or did I miss that somewhere? 

This looks to be the death entry for Sarah Ann Skelton nee Todd
Tati posted details too reply 5

Jun qtr. 1889 Caistor
Sarah Ann SKELTON age 21 (1868)

 :)



Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Thursday 10 March 11 10:02 GMT (UK)
Sarah's burial




12  Apr   1889   Sarah Ann   SKELTON   21   Lincs   Cleethorpes, Cemetery
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Thursday 10 March 11 15:02 GMT (UK)
thanks, I looked for any other Skelton's to confirm maybe she died in child birth but couldnt find anything.
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Thursday 10 March 11 15:09 GMT (UK)
Oh, I am a bit confused on the dates of Sarahs posted death
Jun qtr. 1889 Caistor
Sarah Ann SKELTON age 21 (1868)
 ,
and her burial notice
12  Apr   1889   Sarah Ann   SKELTON   21   Lincs   Cleethorpes, Cemetery

Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 March 11 15:44 GMT (UK)
Oh, I am a bit confused on the dates of Sarahs posted death
Jun qtr. 1889 Caistor
Sarah Ann SKELTON age 21 (1868)
 ,
and her burial notice
12  Apr   1889   Sarah Ann   SKELTON   21   Lincs   Cleethorpes, Cemetery


FreeBMD give the quarters Mar, Jun, Sep & Dec which cover the months
Jan/Feb/Mar
Apr/May/Jun
July/Aug/Sep
Oct/Nov/Dec

ie Sarah Ann death entry was Jun quarter 1889,
that means she could have died in the month of April, May or June 
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Thursday 10 March 11 16:33 GMT (UK)
Ethel May Wilkins marriage.




Old Clee Parish Church Grimsby
   25/12/1902
   MCURICH   CHARLES HENRY,   age . 35 a  fitter  of 50 Sussex St
Father...   ANDREW   deceased coastguard
   WILKINS,   ETHEL MAY  age     18   of  same address
Father...   JAMES  a   deceased ship steward

Wits:   ARTHUR SYDNEY MCURICH   and  SARAH SKELTON               
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 10 March 11 16:54 GMT (UK)
Great info. Barleymow that gives father James Wilkins occupation and that he had died by Dec. 1902

rwenman is looking for birth details of  Arthur George Skelton

FreeBMD has this birth entry
Arthur George Skelton
Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626

We have also been looking for a possible marriage
George Skelton to Lucy Ellen Wilkins

Would you mind having a look for these please - thank you
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Thursday 10 March 11 20:56 GMT (UK)
I cant find George Skelton and Lucy's marriage,sorry

But here is the daughter.. Sarah..marriage.



Old Clee Parish Church Grimsby   23/07/1906
   DALES   GEORGE HENRY  age  23  a     window cleanerof 67 Hart Street
Father...   FRED  a   labourer
   SKELTON   SARAH  age  22  of     same address
Father...   GEORGE   a seaman

Wits:   (D). WILKINS  and   ANNIE ELIZABETH SKELTON               
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Friday 11 March 11 04:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this!  I now know that James Wilkins possibly died then between 1891 (last census) and 1902 (when daughter Ethel May) married!

Still, if he was a seaman (ship steward), is there a way to confirm his death for a seaman?  If he was lost at sea, was there a waiting period (7 years)?

I also know now that Skelton was around for awhile (on 1901 census, and involved with d Ethel's marriage.  Also David Wilkins was witness to the marriage of  Sarah Skelton in 1906.

And Arthur was born in 1896
Still, I am confused why we may have two different references to Arthur's birth one as Wilkins and the other as Skelton:

WILKINS, Arthur
Caistor Lincolnshire 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No:  640

SKELTON, Arthur George
Caistor  Lincolnshire 1896  Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No: 626
FreeBMD has this birth - any use?
Arthur George Skelton
Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626
(Caistor district covered Great Grimsby until 1897)

I have a feeling we are closing in! 

The other remaining mystery is whether there was a Herbert Barker (as stated in a letter by Lucy's daughter Amy to be Arthur's father!). 

Do you have parrish records for Grimsby? (is it possible that Arthur is baptized at Old Clee Parish Church Grimsby?)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 11 March 11 07:37 GMT (UK)
rwenman,

Great that things are coming together

Do you know if Arthur George Skelton or Wilkins ever married?
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Friday 11 March 11 08:08 GMT (UK)
 :DHello, sorry,, just saw this before I head off to bed.  Arthur married my grandmother Gertrude Penswick.
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 11 March 11 10:50 GMT (UK)
Sorry rwenman - I should have remembered that ::)

He married as Arthur George Wilkins Dec qtr. 1919 Flyde, Lancashire :)

Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Sunday 13 March 11 12:56 GMT (UK)
Found this burial


Cleethorpes Cemetery Lincolnshire

Eliza Hazelgrove age 75  buried 12th  March 1912
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 13 March 11 21:03 GMT (UK)
Barleymow thanks again for the info.
 
That would be Stephen Hazelgrove's first wife and again explain why he didn't marry Lucy Ellen Wilkins nee Riley until 1919, although they had daughter Phyllis born 1906

Sarah Skelton daughter of George Skelton & wife Sarah Ann Skelton nee Todd -  who's daughter then is witness Annie Elizabeth Skelton

The other witness  D Wilkins was most likely the son of Lucy Ellen Riley & James David Wilkins born 1887 ie her 'stepbrother' as Lucy was noted as married to George Skelton on 1901 census (although no proof of this)

We still don't know for sure who the father is of Arthur George Skelton born 1897 on the 1901 census  :-\
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Sunday 13 March 11 22:18 GMT (UK)
Hello Ladyhawk

The only Ann Elizabeth Skelton I can find in the marriages is one who married a William Bains in 1862 her father was Christopher a blacksmith.

So no luck there.
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 13 March 11 22:40 GMT (UK)
Barleymow thanks you for taking the time to look - I had a quick look on 1901c for Annie Elizabeth Skelton in Lincolnshire but the only one I came up with with a suitable age as a possible witness was SKELTON, Annie Daughter Single F 16 1885 Net Braider Sheffield daughter of  Priscillia (Widow) her father was  Samuel Skelton  :-\

The person that rwenman is particulary intrested in finding out who the father is of

WILKINS, Arthur
Caistor Lincolnshire 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No:  640

and

SKELTON, Arthur George
Caistor  Lincolnshire 1896  Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 7A Page No: 626

do you by any chance have any info. on these two entries

 :)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Geoff-E on Sunday 13 March 11 23:02 GMT (UK)
Arthur WILKINS http://tinyurl.com/6kxtnq4

Arthur G SKELTON shows in 1901 as son of
Geo SKELTON 38 Fisherman, Alford
Lucy 38 Rochford (Essex) (perhaps previously WILKINS as there were WILKINS stepchildren)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Barleymow on Sunday 13 March 11 23:26 GMT (UK)
Sorry Ladyhawk...I cant find a marriage for
 Arthur Wilkins or
George Arthur Skelton
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 14 March 11 06:58 GMT (UK)
Barleymow thank you - Arthur marriage took place 1919 St. Chad Poulton-le-Fylde,  Lancashire and he married as a Wilkins not Skelton unfortunately no further details on Lancashire OPC

Geoff-E thank you - how did I miss that  entry  ::)

So at least you know that this Arthur Wilkins is not yours as his mother not Lucy Ellen Riley

Arthur Wilkins
12 Jul 1895 Christening   St. John, Clee, Lincoln, England
father John Wilkins mother Sarah Ann

rwenman the above would be this entry from FreeBMD

(Caistor covers Clee)
WILKINS, Arthur

1895 Jul-Aug-Sep Caistor
Volume No: 7A Page No:  640

It's looking more likely now that the birth certificate you need is

SKELTON, Arthur George

1896  Jul-Aug-Sep Caistor
Volume No: 7A Page No: 626

and the marriage certificate

1919 Flyde (Lancashire) vol. 8e page 1777
WILKINS Arthur G
PENSWICK Gertrude

Looks as if they married in the same church where Gertrude was christened
Baptisms: 5 Apr 1896 St Chad, Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire, England
Gertrude Penswick - Child of James Penswick & Margaret Ann
Born: 8 Mar 1896   Abode: Carleton   Occupation: Farmer (from Lancashire OPC) her siblings Robert, Peter Sanderson, Mary Alice & Edith Penswick all baptised here http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
 :)
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 14 March 11 07:58 GMT (UK)
Looks as if they married in the same church where Gertrude was christened
Baptisms: 5 Apr 1896 St Chad, Poulton le Fylde,

Yes, here is the marriage http://tinyurl.com/62krbzo
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: mary ramsden on Thursday 18 September 14 22:19 BST (UK)
Dear Rob, (rwenman) I am the great grandaughter of David J Wilkins , Grimsby area. I think i have various information for you, cant wait to chat. David had a son called David Frederick (my grandad), and David Frederick (fred as we knew him) had 3 boys and one daughter. My dad is the eldest at 77years.
I started searching the tree a couple of years ago, of both my parents. I havent looked for around six months but as my dad is in London shortly  decided to find out where Conroy st was (although o longer exists.but he is gong to have a look around the area.
As im new to this site  so not sure how well this will post
look forward to hearing form you soon

Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: rwenman on Saturday 20 September 14 16:18 BST (UK)
Mary, could you please PM me your regular email, for some reason the site won't allow me to send any more PM's to you since it says your inbox is full. I have some information I would like to share.
 thanks  rob wenman
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: mary ramsden on Saturday 20 September 14 16:43 BST (UK)
hope you get this rob, here is my home email address    i messaged you yesterday with photo did you get it?
Title: Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 22 September 14 06:06 BST (UK)
could you please PM me your regular email, for some reason the site won't allow me to send any more PM's to you since it says your inbox is full.

I have some information I would like to share.


Hello Rob

Mary needs to make 3 posts to send and receive messages via the personal message system (http://surname.rootschat.com/help-pages/pms.php)

I see Mary has already posted her email address on this thread this will be removed by a moderator, she just needs to reply again to the thread and she'll have made the required number
of posts  :)