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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Listerdale on Thursday 03 March 11 21:36 GMT (UK)
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My Great Grandfather Anthony Jordan married Selina (Celina)Brogan in Knockmore, Co. Mayo. in 1915.
The marriage certificate states that Anthony's address was given as Ballysliva. I cannot find this location on any map. Selina's address was given as Knockmore which I have found on maps.
Can anyone please tell me where is 'Ballysliva' or the nearest location?
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Hi,
Have you searched the Irish Census data for either 1901 or 1911....visit http://www.nationalarchives.ie/ to search. Below is a search for Jordan Anthony for 1911 for Co Mayo....13 records - Jordan itself threw up 750+ records. You might get an idea from the data below where your next move should be. A similar search for Brogan for 1911 returned 169 records....you probably have done all this work already?
Best of luck.
Surname Forename Townland/Street DED County Age Sex Birthplace Occupation Religion Literacy Irish Language Relation to Head of Household Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Jordan Anthony Carrowleagh Kilgarvin Mayo 38 M Co Mayo Farmers Son Roman Catholic Cannot read Son Single
Jordan Anthony Carha Kilgarvin Mayo 22 M Co Mayo Farmer's Servant Roman Catholic Read and write Son Single
Jordan Anthony Carrowkeel Turlough Mayo 10 M England Scholar Roman Catholic Read and write Grand Son Single
Jordan Anthony Carrownisky Aillemore Mayo 26 M Mayo Farm Labourer Roman Catholic Read and write Son Single
Jordan Anthony Islandmore Addergoole Mayo 36 M Co Mayo Farmers Son Roman Catholic Read and write Son Single
Jordan Anthony Carrowkeel Turlough Mayo 23 M Co Mayo Farmers Son Roman Catholic Read and write Irish and English Son Single
Jordan Anthony Brackloon Brackloon Mayo 5 M Co Mayo Scholar Roman Catholic Cannot read Son Single
Jordan Anthony Castlebarnagh Brackloon Mayo 14 M Co Mayo Farmer Son Roman Catholic Read write Son Single
Jordan Anthony Cummer Coolnaha Mayo 54 M Co Mayo Farmer Roman Catholic Read and write Irish and English Head of Family Married
Jordan Anthony Cummer Coolnaha Mayo 19 M Co Mayo Farmers Son Roman Catholic Read and write English Son Single
Jordan Anthony Cashelduff Cloonmore Mayo 16 M Co Mayo Labourer Catholic Read and write Irish and English Son Single
Jordan Anthony F Kiltamagh, Main Street Kiltamagh Mayo 6 M Co Mayo Scholar Roman Catholic Read and write Son Single
Jordan Anthony Edward Cummer Coolnaha Mayo 5 M
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Thank you for the suggestions,
I have found the 'Brogan Family' in both the 1901 & 1911 Censuses in Knockmore.
Without knowing were Ballysliva is located, or other names for location, it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I will continue looking through the Anthony Jordans in the census.
Thanks again
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Hello Listerdale,
how old is Anthony in 1915 and what is his father's name? Are their occupations mentioned?
regards
heywood
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Hello Heywood,
Thank you for taking an interest.
On the Marriage Cert. it states that Anthony was aged 30 years, a Farmer from Ballysliva. His Father's name is shown as John also a Farmer.
The marriage was on the 7th. January 1915 at the Roman Catholic Church in Knockmore.
Regards,
Listerdale
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Is the writing clear? There are 2 townlands in Mayo called Ballintleva & 2 named Ballivilla. Could Ballysliva be one of them?
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Sorry, Listerdale,
are the witness names any help at all? Sometimes, they are useful to place someone.
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Hello Elwyn,
I have a typed copy of the Marriage Certificate supplied by the Civil Registration Service last week.
I cannot say what is on the original.
It states that Anthony's address is 'Ballysliva' and his Bride's address is 'Knockmore'.
After the marriage they had at least 5 children, all born in Castletown, Castleconor, Co. Sligo.
Thank you for taking an interest.
Regards,
Listerdale
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Hi Heywwod,
One of the Witnesses appears to be the Brides Sister. The other witness does not mean anything, a person I have not heard of before.
Regards,
Listerdale
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The witness may be found though in 1911 perhaps?
I wonder if it would be worth writing to the Catholic church at Knockmore? Browsing on web, looks like a new church was built in 1940s but the records mays till be there to be looked at first hand. It may be worth a try if you explain your difficulty with the placename.
I can't see that there is a community site for Knockmore or an email address.
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I would say it's a good idea to get a research cert, to see if the writing for the Ballysliva entry is clear, It could be difficult to read and that's all the GRO staff could make out.
Shane
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Hello -
Travelling north on the R310 from Knockmore, there is a townland called Tullysleva.
craggagh.
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That was mentioned before and is worth considering, Craggagh.
The censuses have no Jordans in Tullysleva - there is a Bridget Gordon 70 yrs in 1901 and Griffiths has a John Goran but that is about it. :(
I was wondering if perhaps Anthony was in England in 1901/1911. There is one of a similar age in Scotland in 1901 but no evidence to prove anything.
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there is a John and Mary Jordan in Knockmore area in censuses- Lissaniska West.
Ellis Island site has an Anthony Jordan, 27 yrs emigrating in 1910 to USA - father John of Knockmore.
There are also other Jordans, father William from same place on that site.
I do realise that if this were your Anthony, he would then have to return and the it doesn't solve the mystery of 'Ballysliva' but at the moment, can't see anything else. :(
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Hello -
There is an Anthony Jordan living at 33, Spring Gardens, Bolton in 1911. His date of birth is given as 1885, his age 26, his occupation clay miner in a brickworks and his place of birth Carracastle, Co Mayo. I realise that Carracastle is quite a distance from Knockmore, but he is the only Anthony Jordan listed who was born in Mayo.
craggagh.
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Thank you all for your information the last few days.
On Wednesday I am going to telephone the lady at Roscommon that issued the copy Marriage Certificate, and ask her about Anthony's address. She did telephone me the day she issued it and left a message on the answer machine. I tried ringing back but she only works in the mornings. :)
I am certain the Anthony did not come over to live in the UK at any time. Nor did he go to the USA.
I will revisit the Censuses and look for his Father John. I do not know when he died so it will be another long shot.
Regards and thanks to all.
Listerdale
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It is possible to get a photocopy of the original certificate, rather than a transcript. If you do that (cost is €4) you could see for yourself what it says, and if necessary post that bit of it on this site for other to see and give suggestions. (Don't post the whole cert for copyright reasons).
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Hi Elwyn,
I have received a photocopy of the entry and the writing is crystal clear. Residence at time of Marriage - Ballysliva.
Thank you for all your time and suggestions.
Listerdale
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Oh dear that is so upsetting!
Have you found the other witness in the census at all? Just wondering if that could be a clue.
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The female witness was the Brides Sister, whilst the male witness was called 'John Clarke'
According to the 1911 Census there were 88 in Co. Mayo and 22 in Co. Sligo.
In Co. Mayo 10 & Co. Sligo 2 were between the age of 25 /35 years. (Anthony was aged 30).
A needle in a haystack comes to mind.
Listerdale
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Well yes I agree there :)
At the moment, as we don't seem to know where Ballysliva is, there is no evidence that Anthony is from Mayo or Sligo, is there?
I am just looking over the posts here, and you say you are certain that
Anthony didn't move away but is the first sighting you have of him, his marriage?
Do you know of any siblings?
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I have no other information, only that his Father was called John and was a Farmer. (From the marriage cert)
The restricting thing is 'Ballysliva'. A lady at the Co. Mayo Registry Office looked in a book of old Co. Mayo village names, but it was not listed. Without knowing where or what 'Ballysliva' is it is impossible to go forward.
Thank you again for all your time.
Listerdale
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two useful websites for searching for towns and townlands :
townland database - www.thecore.com/seanruad
Irish placename commission - www.logainm.ie
Bally is town in Irish (Baile), and is part of many Irish placenames. The spelling in English can vary - e.g. maybe Ballinsliva, or from Irish something like Baile na Sliabhe etc
It's also worth bearing in mind that maybe the location was not close to the church and the priest wasn't familiar with it, and misheard.
Shane
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Try contacting the Library in Ballina, they have a Heritage Week 20-28 August 2011.
Contact details Barbara Varley Librarian
bvarley@mayococo.ie
They may have some idea of the Townlands,i have often found on records i have purchased they spelling on Townlands have been taken as they were pronounced and often the priest transcribes as he hears.
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Hi Owenwee,
Thank you for the information.
I will give it a try.
Listerdale
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This looks like Celia's Family
Residents of a house 14 in Knockmore (Mount Falcon, Mayo) (Knocmore is beside Mount Falcon-on the Foxford to Ballina Road)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Brogan Patrick 63 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Mayo Farmer and Publican Read and write Irish and English Married - - - -
Brogan Bridget 46 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Mayo - Read - Married - 27 13 7
Brogan Celia 20 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Mayo Barmaid Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan Owen 15 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Mayo Farmer's Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan Ellen 11 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan John Joe 9 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan Mary 8 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan Katie 5 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Brogan Bridget Josephine 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Just looking up the map for Griffiths, I find Jordans and Brogans living in the same area -Kilconduff
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=Jordan&firstname=Anthony&baronyname=&countyname=MAYO&unionname=&parishname=&Submit.x=44&Submit.y=15
Link to Parish Site
http://www.killaladiocese.org/parishes/knockmore.php
This area would be near Foxford, just approx 5 miles from Knockmore Parish.
When you drive around the Ox Mountains in Foxford, you are very near the Sligo Border, hence the reason they may have moved to Sligo.
This is an interesting site,.
It says that a "Catherine Brogan" from Knockmore had sailed prior to the Titanic and was awaiting friends
Also an Annie Jordan cancelled...no address for her
http://www.addergoole-titanic.com/Titanic_Memorial_Mayo/Default.8.html
Better get some work done, :) good luck with your research
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Hi DympJoyce,
Thank you for your information. It would appear that you have spent some time on extracting this information.
Re the Brogan Family - I already have the 1901 & 1911 Censuses.
I can only find 1 census entry for 1911 were the Head is John with a child named Anthony, but the age is a few years out if his age on the Marriage certificate is correct!! - House 10 Carha (Kilgarvin, Mayo). Kilgarvin does not seem to be in the right area.
Re The Griffith's Valuation - they were completed in 1858 for Mayo - I do not know the christian names of the Jordan's or Brogan's way back then. All I know is that Anthony Jordan's father was named John and I do not know the name of Patrick Brogan's father.
Thank you again.
Listerdale
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Have a look at this website, Kilgarvin is in the same area, (Attymass), and quite near to the Sligo/Mayo Border. The Cemetery appears to be in Bonniconlon. Must enquire about it.
http://www.carradoogan.com/attymass.html
Link pages look interesting too.
http://www.carradoogan.com/links.html
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Hello Listerdale,
I like i challenge,i have established the Townland you are searching,and have tonight traced and spoken with the son of John Joseph Brogan who was brother to your grandmother Celina.
If you email me i will give you the information.
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A big thank you to all members that have given suggestions to help me find the location for my Grandfather.
A special thank you to Owenwee - I have spoken to the Nephew of my Grandmother, it would appear that the location is Ballinasleva!! and burials at Ballynahaglish.
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Thank you for posting Listerdale.
I am so glad that all is sorted thanks to Owenwee- thought we weren't going to find out! How great to find another relative :)
Do you have Anthony Jordan now?
heywood :)
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Hi Heywood,
I feel that I am making progress although very slowly.
I have still not found the Birth of my Grandfather Anthony, but it appears that he did originate from the Knockmore area.
They is a Anthony Jordon aged 18 years on the 1901 Census at Creggaun, Ballynahaglish Parish, but no Father. I have found this on the 'Mayo Family History Centres' but I cannot find it on the 'National Archives of Ireland'. :(
Listerdale
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Hello,
the family are transcribed as 'Gordon' - original looks like 'Jordon'.
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heywood beat me by seconds.. I agree .. the surname looks more like Jordan to me
Gordan/Jordan household, Creggaun townland (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Ballina_Rural/Creggaun/1571416/)
Shane
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Hi Heywood / Shane,
I did find this after my last message, but I had no way of checking against the original. Thanks.
It could be 'Jordan' as on the Mayo Site!!
Nothing found for 1911.
Thank you all again - I think that I will wait until I contact my Grandmother's newphew again in a couple of weeks or until I manage to come over and visit.
Listerdale
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Here's part of the family - no Anthony though - you probably have found these
Ellen Jordan (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002944139/)
Have you found Ballinasleva?
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Hi Heywood,
I had not found this entry for Ellen Jordan - A few suspect details!!
a) Age change from 46 to 70
b) Peter age change from 20 to 33
c) If she has been married for 13 years, had 7 children (still alive) in the marriage, where are they? also she must have been 43 or 57 when she married. even at 43 it would be difficult to have 7 children.
I do not think that this IS the correct family of Jordan's as on Anthony's Marriage Cert, his father is stated as a Farmer, not deceased.
Regarding Ballinasleva - I have not found out the exact position. According to the Mayo Library it is on the road between Knockmore and Foxford. They gave me the telephone number for the Knockmore Post Office, who should be able to tell me.
Thank you,
Listerdale
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....
I do not think that this IS the correct family of Jordan's as on Anthony's Marriage Cert, his father is stated as a Farmer, not deceased.
Regarding Ballinasleva - I have not found out the exact position. According to the Mayo Library it is on the road between Knockmore and Foxford. They gave me the telephone number for the Knockmore Post Office, who should be able to tell me.
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Marriage certs dont always mention if the father is alive or not. Unless he was a witness it's difficult to be certain of this.
Bing maps show an area named Ballinslava on the road on the way to Knockmore, running west from the Foxford Ballina road. It's less than 1km from Knockmore and not a townland, but looks like it includes sections of two townlands - Lissaniska West and Gortnadrehy. See Ballinslava (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=54.02088796545516~-9.159809728821164&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=r&where1=Foxford%2C%20Ireland&form=LMLTCC)
It's not shown on the OSI map or Google maps, but this would be the location on the OSI maps - Lissaniska West/Gortnadrehy - Ballinslava (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,523948,808405,5,3)
Shane
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Thanks so much Shane :)
I tried 1838 map but won't download. Then tried Griffiths maps- to no avail even though I wandered around Foxford and Knockmore for ages.
1911 has Jordans (no Anthony) in Lissaniska West. :-\
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I remembered I had a Discovery OS map in the car for part of Mayo/Sligo and have just checked it - nothing named at all for Ballinslava in that area- that was a good find on the Bing map and I hope it is going to lead to something. :)
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Hi Shane,
Thank you for the Hyperlinks for the maps of Ballinslava / Ballinsleva.
It confirms the area that Ray Brogan described and the Census entry for John & Mary Jordan in 1901 & 1911.
Very much appreciated.
Listerdale
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Hi Heywood,
Yes the Lissaniska West appears to be the correct one, although no Anthony.
Owenwee appears to have come up trumps. Owenwee has found census records in Scotland for 1901 which shows Anthony living with his brother John in Uphal, West Lothian.
Ray Brogan told me that one of Anthony's brothers emigrated to Canada, and his son became an Archbishop. Looking on Goggle I found an Archbishop Anthony Jordan in Alberta who was born in Uphal in 1901.
I still have to follow this through, and intend to visit Ray Broganwhen I can find the time - hopefully very soon.
Thank you and the other contributors for all your time and effort. ;D
Regards,
Listerdale
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That's super and have a great time when you get round to your visit!
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Hi Heywood,
Sorry to trouble you, but in March you stated that you had found "Ellis Island site has an Anthony Jordan, 27 yrs emigrating in 1910 to USA - father John of Knockmore."
I have registered on the Ellis Island site "http://www.ellisisland.org/default.asp" but I cannot find an Anthony Jordan on their Passenger List search. Have I got the correct Ellis Island site?
Regards,
Listerdale
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Hi,
yes that's right. You have to search a bit sometimes on E I because people gave nearest town etc and you have to go into the manifest to get a bit more info.
The later records are often two pages also so here goes:
Search Anthony Jordan - you only get a handful of that name.
This is the one you need:
Residence Ballina arrived 1910 aged 27yrs
View the Ship Manifest - note the line number
Enlarge the manifest and you can see his details but you will notice that his name isn't on that page
Click on 'next' - enlarge again and check same line. This has his name and next of kin etc
best wishes
heywood
Then -
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Thank you Heywood.
I do not know what I was doing before, but it worked first time following your instructions.
Listerdale
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To all readers,
Thank you for your information and help over a period of year, whilst I have been trying to find my Irish Family members.
I am pleased to say, that due to 1 member of the Forum, I have just been over to Co. Mayo and met up with a Cousin in Knockmore, visited Cemeteries, Churches, family Homesteads and found out a lot of information from other Cousin's I was introducted to.
I now know that I have 'Jordan' relations, not just in Eire but also in Canada and in the States. A lot to go at. :)
Thank you all.
Listerdale
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That's lovely news. :)