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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bendywendy on Sunday 27 February 11 12:57 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone
I am researching my partners paternal line of Robertson. They originate from Glasgow as Weavers.
A son Charles Robertson c 1843 Glasgow (to John Robertson & Mary Brown) left Glasgow and went to Bermondsey.
1861 he was a Pressman Printer in Glasgow.
1875 he married Margaret Beattie @ St Pancras.
1881 he and family are living at 19 Drappers Road, Bermondsey, he a Printer.
1891 same address as Printers Compositor.
1891 possibly died??
He might have added his mothers surname into his name of Brown, he was not baptised with this name but this appears on 1881 census.
1843 Margaret Beattie was born Newton le Willows, Lancashire to John Beattie & Sarah ?? both of Cumberland.
1891 Margaret Robertson nee Beattie is living 19 Drappers Road, Widow.
1876 Charles John Robertson son of Charles Robertson & Margaret Beattie above
1899 marriage to Margaret Ada Hennigan
1901 census with wife and family 16 Millstream Road, occ. Printers Compositor
1879 Margaret Ada Hennigan born Bermondsey to John Hennigan & Margaret ?? both of Cork, Ireland. (Henigan/Henegan etc)
1902 Martin Robertson to Charles John Robertson & Margaret Ada Hennigan
1927 marriage to Ethel Bean, York, Yorkshire
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Can anyone help with info for these address's (now flats, but were they then) and what the areas in Bermondsey was like please??
Can anyone help with info for Printing Business's within the areas of these address's, don't think they would have travelled far to work from home??
Does anyone have any of these names in their family trees??
Kind regards
Bendywendy
Linking this thread with another thread in Lanarkshire, Scotland, parents to Charles above:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,514786.0.html
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1871 he was in London; 25 Rutland Street St.Pancras RG10/201/75
Charles B Robertson 27 lodger Printer born Scotland
Multi-household. 2 heads of family John Hutchinson & John Bowden.
Jennifer
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Thank you jennifer c ;D
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Hi 'BendyWendy'
I would be very interested to know any details you find and have already found for Drappers Road.
My grandmother lived there at that time at no 18 so could have been a neighbour or nearby. She was Annie Matilda Down and born in Bermondsey in 1870 and living at no 18 by 1878 ....I have the original certified copy of entry of birth issued for the purposes of the Elementary Education Act 1876. She was living there at the 1881 census - her father worked on the railway.
She married my grandfather in 1898 and many of his family worked as printers, compositors etc in that area.
I never knew any grandparents so would certainly like to know living and working conditions etc
Bill
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Hi billramp
What was the name of your grandfather that Annie M Down married??
Did Annie work in the printing business too after her education??
Found these
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43026
BERMONDSEY
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43041
SOUTHWARK
Drappers Road comes under St Olave, Southwark, I think the boundaries were changed around more than once.
I can only find Drappers Way, Southwark on google maps and not sure if this is the same as Drappers Road, Bermondsey?
I don't live any where near London, so the area is completely unknown to me.
Bendywendy
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Hi
Drappers Road ............
http://london1878.com/stanford62b.htm
Top of the sheet.
North off Alexis Street, to the east of Linsey St/Macks Rd, to the west of StJamesRd
Ray
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Thanks Ray, I love old maps, on google maps there is a Drappers Way and a Drapers Way, slightly off each other, must be very confusing for the postie!!!
Bendywendy
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Hi
Found this, takes some navigating, but tis an old map of the area off Blue Anchor Road, which is named on the old map via the link by Ray.
http://www.gardenhistoryinfo.com/oldlondonmaps/horwoodpages/horwood30401.html
and this
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45271
ROTHERHITHE
quote
"At the beginning of the present century Rotherhithe consisted of a few streets, with good gardens to the houses, extending from the Blue Anchor Road (the boundary between Bermondsey and Rotherhithe) to Hanover Street, beyond which were marshes intersected by sluggish, dirty streams. The southern limit of the houses followed the line of Paradise Street and Adam Street, leading from Blue Anchor Road to the end of the Deptford Lower Road. Blue Anchor Road (the river end of which was called West Lane) ran southwards, skirting the dirty streams and stagnant pools of Milford, to the end of Rogue's Lane, which ran through marshy fields to the "Halfway House," past the "St. Helena" tavern and teagardens. Near the "Halfway House"—which, by the way, was a neighbourhood noted as a resort of footpads—at the top of Trundley's Lane stood a few houses, still existing, and named Mildmay Houses. There were a few plots of market-garden ground here and there to be seen, near the spot now occupied by the Grand Surrey Docks, and adjoining Globe Stairs Alley, in the Blue Anchor Road; but the greater portion of the entire district between Rotherhithe and the Kent Road consisted of marshy fields. Mill Pond was the name given to a number of tidal ditches—not unlike those of Jacob's Island—which intersected the space between Blue Anchor Road and the Deptford Lower Road. A larger stream discharged itself into the Thames at King's Mill; but that disappeared when the Grand Surrey Docks were constructed. Within the last half century the inhabitants of the streets around Mill Pond were dependent upon these dirty tidal ditches for their supply of water, which was fetched in pails. Of late years, however, Mill Pond has been drained away, and rows of houses, some known as Jamaica Level, occupy the site" Unquote.....
It certainly did not seem a nice clean place to live if the folk depended on the dirty streams for their water !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue
The Blue is a central market place in Bermondsey an area in London
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/news.cfm?id=28236
The Blue Market
Bendywendy
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Hi again BendyWendy.......
Sorry have not replied earlier, I am full-time carer for my wife and cannot always reply quickly.
My gmother's father was a railway official, and she was an advertising clerk before marrying my gfather who was a law writer for a solicitor.
His father had various jobs in printing as did two other people in drappers rd in 1881.
I would imaine they would be involved in book printing, because the 91 census refers to book binders finisher, book sewer and paper stainer.
There is also a street called 'Printers Place' nearby.
Thanks for the links to the maps and to Ray (again)...we can see that drappers rd went from lucey rd to alexis street. There were 29 dwellings, the enumerator would stop along alexis street and then do drappers nos 13,12,11 to no 1 and the return on the oher side with 29,28 ....to 14
so the Robertsons at no 19 were, in fact, neighbours to my gmother Down at no 18.
Looking for links I have found 11 addresses in drappers out of the 29 in 1871-1891 whose families are being researched!!!!!
Have you seen this site...
www.bermondseyboy.net
One contributor...freddie.....lived in drappers rd......good reading from many of the people who lived in the area
in the 50's and 60's and of the many old places which would have been in the area at the turn of the century. I will try and find our from him when drappers rd disappeared, and if he has some old photos.
Also this site also has some very good reading and pictures
www.bermondsey.biz
Very interesting that article as well
Bill
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Hi Bill
Don't apologise for doing a brilliant job with your wife, I too have a partially disabled dau and her husband has to look after her, their dau and works full time in the forces, I know how demanding the caring side is.
Back to business..
Thanks for all the info, tis fascinating that so many folk are looking for ancestors on Drapper Place.
I have been trying to find any info regarding Printers etc in that area but to no avail??
Bermondseyboy is very good.
As for Millstream Road, this is further along the railway side travelling north north west, not far from Drappers Way
according to google maps abt 800mtrs apart, sited in triangle of what is now B202 Abbey St and Tower Bridge Road.
http://lyons-family.co.uk/Lyons/bermondsey-history/Lyons-homes-bermondsey/millstream-road/millstream-road.htm
again Bermondseyboy with mention of Millstream Road and photo of nearby and a map which show Print Works on Stanworth Street...which is next street off Millstream Road...the area looks to be industrialised now.
http://www.bermondseyboy.net/2010/08/16/bermondsey-yesterday-and-today/page3/
so is this the Print Works I am looking for, can anyone help with a name???
Quote " Stanworth Street. Today Stanworth Street is a small turning off of Milstream Road and joins Gedling place before it rejoins Abbey Street.
Originally Stanworth Street lay at the botton end of The Grange at a point where it joined Riley Street the old Metal Box Company factory was on the right hand side.
The whole area was bombed heavily during the war which caused lots of damage.
The bomb site between Stanworth Street and Larnaca Street after being cleared became the home of Bermondsey Greyhounds Cycle Speedway Club where a track was built from the ruins". Unquote
Can anyone help with this quotation "In the James Bond film Tomorrow Never Dies, Harmsworth Quays Printing was used as the scene for Carver's print works" taken from http://www.bermondsey.biz/historyofrotherhithe.htm
and this one
"Bermondsey is in SE1. It is composed of Victorian warehouses, print works and the old leather market" from Welcome to Bermondsey Guide.
British Listed Buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-471158-former-clays-printing-works-1-2-and-3-be/osmap Description: Former Clays Printing Works 1, 2 and 3 Bermondsey Grade: II Date Listed: 17 Sep 1998 Location: Paris Garden, Camberwell, Greater London SE1 9DJ Locality: Bermondsey
Local Authority: Lambeth County: Greater London Country: England Postcode: SE1 9DJ
This is not far from Millstream Road.
This also was former printworks Lion Yard, 8 Blue Lion Place, Long Lane, Borough, London SE1 again not far from Millstream Road.
Is it possible that those at Metal Box (which produced tin plate printing) would be called Printer or Printer compositor for census purposes ??? http://www.bermondseyboy.net/2010/08/16/bermondsey-yesterday-and-today/page12/
Bendywendy
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I lived at 9 Drappers Road from birth in 1952 until we moved out in 1966/7 prior to the demolition of the old Victorian "Airey" houses so the council could built the current blocks of flats. The "Airey" houses (named after the architect) were the type with steps down from the street to the basement entrance and another short set of stairs up to the main front door in the style of "upstairs/downstairs - tradesman entrance). The street numbers on the east side of the street would have run from number 1 at the Lucey Road (northern end) to 13 (?) at the Alexis (previously Alexander) Street end. So your relatives home would have been on the other (west) side of the street. I'm not certain, but I think the numbers ran from low at the south/Alexis St end to higher at the north/Lucey St end. I think number 18 was directly opposite us. Number 10 was destroyed during WW2 as was (if my numbering is correct) 14 through to 17.
Drappers Road on OS maps of the period is divided between London sheet 77 (Bermondsey & Wapping) and sheet 90 (Old Kent Road). I think I have only seen one clear picture of Drappers Road on the web and I think that was on Pathe or Getty when a blind/blinded man who lived there was a news feature. I will do a search and see the pix shows the houses or if there's one in my old "shoe box!"
Edit:
Here's a link to the Pathe news clip showing the north-west side of the street (ie the Lucey Road end):
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=41444
I know I have a photo's of the rear & garden of a couple of houses in the street if they are of interest!
Regards
freddie
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Thank you very much QueSera, interesting that you also lived there and interesting info too.
Did you enjoy living there?? and did you have a garden?? Was the houses privately owned or council??
The description you give of the Airey homes sound wonderful, upstairs/downstairs, I lived in a Victorian Town house for some 14 years with ground and 2 upper storeys, I do so miss that dear home.
Bendywendy
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For a couple of other enquiries mentioned in this thread:
The print works of Stanworth Street would almost certainly been a part of the "Metal Box Co". Many metal can & box manufacturers set up in Bermondsey for the packing of food stuffs that Bermondsey was famous for. There were many other printing companies in the Bermondsey & Southwark area and remember that Fleet Street isn't that far away!
Harmsworth Quay (and printers) was used for James Bond, but these are modern sites only created with the LDDC after the Surrey Docks closed.
The houses in Drappers Road did not have bathrooms, central heating or running hot water. Bath time would most probably be Sunday evening, with everyone taking a turn in the zinc tub filled from a kettle (or pots & pans). The outside toilet was quite a long walk from the top floor and cold at night so everyone's bedroom would house a potty, jerry, po or "goesunder" under the bed!
Edit:
Just read Bill's replies above, which confirm my numbering for Drappers Road
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28 & 29 Drappers Road and the backs of houses in Lucey Poad, Bermondsey c 1950/60
(http://i52.tinypic.com/23uwjsh.jpg)
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Hi QueSera
Sorry but your pic won't upload....
Bendywendy
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Hi Bill & Wendy,
The whole of Drappers Road was one continual terrace on either side of the street (although no 10 next door to us was demolished). When I lived there, the Snell's lived at number 18, which was the start of the terrace on that side of the road due to the demolition of 14-17 after enemy action in WW2.
No 18 had the stairs to the basement to the left as you looked at the front of the house and no 19 to the right (just like the end of terrace in the picture above.
Wendy, if you still cannot see the picture posted above, let me know your E-mail address or other and I will send a copy if you want.
Regards
freddie
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Hi Freddie
Thanks for more info, tis fascinating.
Sorry but pic still won't open. I will PM you my email address.
Wendy
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My Grandmother lived at Number 18 Drappers Road ,one of her daughters Rene lived on the first floor and her son Charlie on the top floor.