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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 09:56 GMT (UK)

Title: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 09:56 GMT (UK)
Hi all

I know this sounds silly but is there any way the Birth on a death certificate can be wrong?

My Grandmother Louisa Maud Smith was born on 20th May 1907 in Buckingham, this is the same as is on her death certificate. She was baptised according to Parish Records in January 1908.  However the Birth index has her birth as May 1908.  I am guessing that that the Birth index can't be wrong so it must be her death certificate and the Parish Record.

I have applied for her birth certificate but thought I would see if anyone had seen this before.

Many thanks

Nicky
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: casram on Friday 25 February 11 10:00 GMT (UK)
Assuming you are referring to an English or Welsh death certificate the date of birth is only as good as the information given by the person registering the death. When my father registered his father's death he got the dob wrong by one year.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: casram on Friday 25 February 11 10:03 GMT (UK)
Having re read your post - she cannot have been baptised before she was born so the birth index must be wrong - are you sure there is not more than one Louisa Maud Smith born around that time.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 25 February 11 10:05 GMT (UK)
Also, have you checked through the parish records to see the date sequence on nearby records?  It's very easy to mistake the year on January date entries.

The birth index should be listed under the date of registration, not the date of birth.  If it's England and Wales that we're talking about then the birth should have been registered within six weeks of when it happened.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 10:06 GMT (UK)
I can't find another. But I was thinking that perhaps because it was near the beginning of the year when she was baptised that they may have put the wrong year down.  (I know I was writing 2010 up until a couple of weeks ago.

I think a trip to the family studies centre is in order!

Nicky
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 10:09 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your reply dudley,  The birth is registered in the third quarter of 1908 volume 3a page 1031

It is strange, I can understand Granny Lou wanting to be a year younger but not older.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: ScouseBoy on Friday 25 February 11 10:10 GMT (UK)
The May 1908 birth was perhaps another subsequent child born to those parents, they may have given the same name to the next baby.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 10:35 GMT (UK)
I don't think it could be Scouseboy because on the 1911 census, she is listed as being 2 and there are no children who have died.  it is all very confusing!
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: ScouseBoy on Friday 25 February 11 10:56 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your reply dudley,  The birth is registered in the third quarter of 1908 volume 3a page 1031

It is strange, I can understand Granny Lou wanting to be a year younger but not older.

Could the 1908 entry be an amendment, correction  or an additional name.  The middle name may have been added later, possibly.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 11:29 GMT (UK)
I didn't know it could be amended like that, it is another path I will look down.  Thank you :)
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: stanmapstone on Friday 25 February 11 11:34 GMT (UK)
If it's England and Wales that we're talking about then the birth should have been registered within six weeks of when it happened.

A birth can be registered up to not more than twelve months after the date of the birth. Section 5 of the 1874 Registration Act. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1874/pdf/ukpga_18740088_en.pdf which would agree with the index.

Stan
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: alpinecottage on Friday 25 February 11 11:43 GMT (UK)
Possibly your Gran was born in 1907 and baptised in 1908, but someone forgot to register the birth, so to avoid the fine and trouble of doing it later, someone said "Let's pretend she was born in 1908, the registrar will never know!"
 Another possibility is whether her parents had been married for more than 9 months before her birth or whether there was any doubt as to who her father was - the late registration could have been for the sake of respectability.

At that time, the welfare state was far in the future and the need to register a birth was less obvious.

Finally are you 100% certain she was not born in Norfolk or London, where there are registrations of Louisa Maud Smith births in 1907?  (Of course, you'll soon know if you have the correct certificate when it arrives)
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: stanmapstone on Friday 25 February 11 11:53 GMT (UK)
There would be no fine if the birth was registered within the twelve months. However there was a fee to be paid of 2s 6d to the Superintendent Registrar, and the Registrar.

Stan
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Friday 25 February 11 12:13 GMT (UK)
Possibly your Gran was born in 1907 and baptised in 1908, but someone forgot to register the birth, so to avoid the fine and trouble of doing it later, someone said "Let's pretend she was born in 1908, the registrar will never know!"
 Another possibility is whether her parents had been married for more than 9 months before her birth or whether there was any doubt as to who her father was - the late registration could have been for the sake of respectability.

At that time, the welfare state was far in the future and the need to register a birth was less obvious.

Finally are you 100% certain she was not born in Norfolk or London, where there are registrations of Louisa Maud Smith births in 1907?  (Of course, you'll soon know if you have the correct certificate when it arrives)

The first could be a possibility, I know the second isn't because Granny was not the eldest so they were very definitely married by the time she came along.

I am 99% sure she was not born in London or Norfolk.  Her parents were publicans and the other children were all born in the pub in Buckingham and I cannot see any family or any other connection to Norfolk or London.

Oh well, the certificate should be here in the next couple of days so we will soon see.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: davidrigg3 on Friday 25 February 11 14:18 GMT (UK)
A birth can be registered up to not more than twelve months after the date of the birth. Section 5 of the 1874 Registration Act. which would agree with the index.

The birth is registered in the third quarter of 1908 volume 3a page 1031

If the birth was 20th May 1907 and the registration appears in the Sept Qtr of 1908 then that's more than 12 months as the earliest it could have been registered is July 1st surely? So maybe they adjusted the date when it was registered??
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: stanmapstone on Friday 25 February 11 14:33 GMT (UK)
Deleted

Stan
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: davidrigg3 on Friday 25 February 11 14:37 GMT (UK)
In the first post yes, in the third it says Sept as per the quote from nicky, and per FreeBMD??
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Saturday 26 February 11 11:48 GMT (UK)
Well I have the certificate and it is 1908!  I am going back today to check the Parish registers for the date of baptism. 

I will try and see if I can find her marriage too, I know it was in 1927, but when I am not sure.

Onward ad upward!
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Saturday 26 February 11 17:50 GMT (UK)
This is just going to be one of those discrepancies I wont be able to get to the bottom of.  I have had a very productive day at the CBS today and now I have the following information!


Louisa Maud Smith

Born 20/5/1908 as per her birth certificate.
Baptised 23/7/1908 As per parish record of baptism (I misread Jul for Jan originally)
Married 12/5/1927 states her age as 19. (she would have been 18)
Died 26/9/1984 with her death certificate stating her DOB as 20/5/1907

The only conclusion I can come up with is that she truly believed that her birth date was 1907......Oh how I wish she was here so I could ask!
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 26 February 11 18:45 GMT (UK)
How old was her husband at marriage? She was NEARLY 19 and maybe wanted to lessen the age gap?

And with the death registration, as has already been said, the date of birth is only as good as the informant's knowledge, which could easily be a year out.

Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: tawny75 on Saturday 26 February 11 18:46 GMT (UK)
Grampy Fred was 20 so it wasn't a huge age gap at all!  I am officially stumped.
Title: Re: Could the Death Certificate date be wrong?
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 26 February 11 19:27 GMT (UK)
She was 19 at marriage bar a week.

If my daughter is anything to go by, she'd say 19 if she was more or less there.

And re the death cert, the previous comments apply.  So many correct birth DAYS (because the family knows them from birthday celebrations) but the wrong year, on many occasions.