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Title: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Friday 25 February 11 04:00 GMT (UK)


This is the continuation of Wiggy's Scavenger Hunt.

Link to Part One.     http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,514249.0.html
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 04:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Wiggy,

If you get a chance, how about a summary of where we are up to in the hunt for Edward Cecil GAUNT ....

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 25 February 11 04:33 GMT (UK)
So we have proved that Edward Gaunt married Edith Corrin in 1906 and they had two (or three) children, Claude Cecil, 1907. Olive Lillian, 1908,   and possibly Edna Frances 1914.   Edna Frances married George Hilditch in 1935 and it is to a descendant of this family that I refer below.   
Question 1. if Edna was not Edward's, why didn't George Forsyth call her his when he married her mother a year later??

We have Edith remarried to George Forsyth in 1915 which narrows the window of death of Edward to 1908 - 1914/15.  (Unless they divorced -)

Edward Cecil Gaunt last heard of by family in 1908 when he was known to be crew on the SS Suffolk trading between UK and Aus.    His siblings applied to wind up his affairs in Tasmania, in 1934.  It would seem that the Tasmanian family didn't know about the British family
Question 2. - why otherwise would they be dealing with his affairs, and not his English family - (who could have had someone in Tassie acting for them)??

We have not found a death for him!   -  or a divorce if that were the case.    Anywhere in the world seems fair game at the moment - we have searched the overseas death lists to no avail.
 
Crew lists seem to be harder to access and it seems I need a mole in the Kew Archives for that!!     :-\

I believe Edward C would have been too old for the army at over 50 when the war started - but I suppose death from some war cause is not impossible
Question 3. - would that account for no knowledge of his whereabouts I wonder?       :-\

Oh where, oh where has my Gx2uncle gone
Oh where, oh where can he be?? . . . .       ;D ;D


I have just written to someone who owns a tree on An****ry - he has George Hilditch in his tree - the one who married Edna Gaunt - so we shall see what happens with that!

According to that tree, the next generation of Hilditch is still alive  (and so he ought to be - he's my generation!!    ;D ;D )  -  so that could be a good source of info if they will come to the party!


Wiggy    :)

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 06:34 GMT (UK)
Wow,

Just typed up replies to all three questions and they are snuffled by cyber space ...

Back shortly

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 06:39 GMT (UK)
Q1

Edith Gaunt's 1915 marriage was registered in first quarter.  It was at a registry office at West Derby, a sub-district of Liverpool.  The Lancs BDM project has a copy of the m.c.
GAUNT Edith FORSYTH George
West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended
REG_WD/307/117
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
That LOCAL record should show info about the marital status of Edith GAUNT (widow/divorcee etc)

Edna Frances's birth in 1914 was registered in the second quarter ....  Perhaps Edith and George met AFTER Edna was born ... 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 06:44 GMT (UK)
 ;D
Q2
I think the TAS family knew of ECG's 1906 marriage, and as many of them would have knowledge of legal matters (stockbrokers, board members, etc) they would believe that his n o k would be Edith.  Re 1927,  I guess/speculate that the TAS public trustee sought to distribute some funds that had been sitting idle for some years, thus sought to find a TAS n o k for ECG... hence the wait of seven years.  BUT, I have not found any public notice in newspapers etc seeking any info about ECG's whereabouts ....

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 06:51 GMT (UK)
Q3
While I have NOT found ECG at the National Archives of Australia's digitised WWI records,  I have found something that could be way off track, or perhaps could help http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx  search as a guest.

A WWII service record that has NOT yet been digitised (you can arrange for this, costs around $20, takes up to 3 months) is for an Edward Gaunt, born 16 Feb 1909 at Clifton Hill, Victoria Australia.  He enlisted at Fitzroy, Victoria.  His n o k :  Edna Gaunt. 

There may be NO connection to ECG, .... and I note that Edna may be this chap's wife/mother/sister/cousin etc.

I will try to follow up on that 1909 born Victorian.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 25 February 11 07:12 GMT (UK)
Well, there was a nephew Stuart Edward Gaunt born 1905, father Norman Stuart G. - but that was Tassie.  Can't see any others who might be related - doesn't mean there aren't any but . . . .  I have this family fairly well recorded up to the generation we are talking about.    I wonder if any of Matthias's brood's offspring came this way, maybe?   Making them cousins, or second cousins . . . .

There were a couple of other quite unrelated Gaunt families in Victoria in the late 1800s . . .  I keep tripping over them when trolling through the papers!

I still think Edna Frances could be Edward's (Frances being Edward's grandmother's name!  that was what first drew me to that entry way back) - but how to prove it I don't know - other than getting her birth cert - which I might have to do - (next payday!)

 I am now awaiting the arrival of Edith and George Forsyth's marriage cert!  Sorry I've already said that in the last thread.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 07:21 GMT (UK)
Re Edward Gaunt born Vic 16 Feb 1909, the WWII nominal roll has him being discharged 22 Feb 1941.  The online index for Vic births has a likely entry giving his parents as  Robt Wm Freeman Gaunt and  Adelaide Elizth Nelson (Vic rego # 2141, with birth place as Clifton Hill in 1909)
I won't follow up any further along that thought.

Fingers crossed that you have some pennies left for food and shelter for yourself, did you order the mc from GRO or from Lancs bdm project   ;)

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 25 February 11 07:27 GMT (UK)

   GRO   -   I have limited ability to go to lots of sites - I get too confused!!  ;)     Have already been called a Wally for getting confused!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
  I now remember you told me about the other - but, at the time I was ordering, it had slipped my mind - too many things slip my mind!  I'd better hurry up and sort things out before my mind becomes a total flour bag!    :'( :'( :'(

Yes JM, I think we can give the Victorian Gaunt a miss for now - until something concrete and positive turns up!   Clear the decks a bit!   ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Friday 25 February 11 12:50 GMT (UK)
Hi

I've been searching again for anything else on ECG ...can't find anything more.  :-\

Yesterday I found a marriage of an Edward Gaunt also in 1915, West Derby .... I think this was the following quarter of when Edith married George Forsyth. I wonder if they did get divorced and both remarried.

I still can't see ECG in the UK in 1911 ..... arrrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


deb
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 15:48 GMT (UK)
 ;D

Yes, Deb .... there's an Edward Gaunt who married Elizabeth Connolly in 1915.  Interestingly at the Lancs bdm website, their index reference is  REG_WD/313/107  and their index reference for Edith Gaunt to George Forsyth (REG_WD/313/117) and BOTH those ceremonies were "West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended" ... so perhaps these ceremonies were only TEN apart at that Registry office.  In which case, there were very few registry marriages at that office in 1915.

 http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

The interesting bit for me is that GRO ref for Edward to Elizabeth is Indexed online as Q3, Vol 8b 1187 and that Edith's to George is indexed online as Q1, Vol 8b 867 ... 
 http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 15:52 GMT (UK)
IF, and tis only speculation, but ...

IF that was ECG marrying Elizabeth Connolly in 1915 then that places him YET again in Liverpool area .... so he could be Edna Frances' DAD ... 

Ummm....  I will try to follow up further, but not at this minute where it is 2:52 am in NSW ... yes, that's pre-dawn.   ::)  :-[

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 25 February 11 20:34 GMT (UK)
Thinking - would getting divorced and remarrying be enough to cause a big rift in the family - big enough that the family don't have any further contact with him??

 The BIG fly in that ointment is that the family last recorded knowledge of Edward in 1908 - 7 years prior to this possible marriage!

But I like the thinking that Edward was around to be Edna's father!!!   ;)   8)

I was thinking all along that the gap in births between Olive and Edna could be put down to the fact that Edward was away 'sailing the ocean blue' - and I still like that idea!

Don't tell me JM;   
You think I should buy that marriage cert for Edward and Elizabeth!!   :o    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have now ordered Edna's birth cert - and it had better give me something positive one way or the other!!!    ;)

Wiggy    ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 21:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Wiggy,

Up early too!

Would I ever make a suggestion re getting certificates ....  ::) or primary records  ::) from local registers  ::) and insist that you persist inspite of professional archivists not knowing what is in their own catalogues of their own archives ...  ::)   :-X  :-X    ;)  ;)

Anyways, there's at least three children for Edward & Elizabeth Gaunt showing her former name as Connolly.  As they may still be living, I will note only that those births were registered at West Derby, Liverpool, Lancs, indexed as follows
1916, Q2 Male, GRO 8b pg 631
1917, Q4, Male, GRO 8b pg 535
1920, Q3, Female GRO 8b pg 707

IF only we could find a will for Emily Gaunt nee Ransom .... (ECG's mum) .... if only  ;D well that's one primary record that could provide the definitive answer.


Cheers, (good fine washing day here)  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: youngtug on Friday 25 February 11 21:50 GMT (UK)
Nothing new.http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=2196
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Friday 25 February 11 22:46 GMT (UK)
ummmmmmmmmmmmm

Okay ECG married Edith Corrin in 1906, Claude Cecil is born July q 1907 ...family say they last saw ECG in 1908. We also have EC Gaunt arriving Sydney, NSW from Melbourne on the Suffolk (which had come from Liverpool), 23 April 1908. Olive Lillian is born July q 1908. So Edith had to be pregnant before he left.

Unfortunately is does not say when the Suffolk left London!

So ECG had to arrive back in the  UK sometime between 1908 and 1914 in order to have Edna Francis in 1914. Unless Edna is not his child.

What if Olive Lillian does not belong to  Edward Cecil either...  :-\ :-X ::) ...what if he came back to the UK and there was Olive ...if he had been gone awhile he may have known that Olive couldn't be his and so he LEFT .....
That's my story ....  ;D ;D ;D ;D

deb
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Friday 25 February 11 22:50 GMT (UK)
another thought ...why would ECG not tell his family about his wife and child in England ...he was in Sydney in 1908 and the rellies say they last SAW him then ...so they must have spoken to each other .....

 8)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Friday 25 February 11 23:14 GMT (UK)
The Suffolk, Captained by Deith (same as EC Gaunt's captain)  arrived Brisbane Sept 12, 1908. He states the voyage to take 60 days. I don't think this is the same voyage that EC Gaunt was a part of.

However, I did recheck EC Gaunt's passenger list on the SS Suffolk ...there is 3 pages of the crew list on the 4th page are the passengers where it states that they left LIVERPOOL to CAPE TOWN, SA then to MELBOURNE .... how long would that take?

deb ...trying to figure out if Olive is his daughter ... ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Friday 25 February 11 23:23 GMT (UK)
Debs, about six to eight weeks, allowing for cargo to be discharged and ballast/more cargo loaded.

I can't wait for that birth cert for Edna Frances....

Also, what are the chances that the witnesses to Edith Gaunt nee Corrin's marriage to George Forsyth could possibly be
Edward Cecil Gaunt and Elizabeth Connolly  ;)

As an aside, searched The Times 1907-1915 for any sign of a divorce Gaunt v Gaunt .... not found a likely one, but noticed there's often a third surname mentioned ... probably either a nee name or a co-respondent's name.  Found it ODD though that Divorces were heard in the PROBATE & DIVORCE & ADMIRALTY court  ;)  ... what a combination for those judges to need to have deep understanding of those various Laws.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 25 February 11 23:36 GMT (UK)
Quote from: youngtug on Friday 25 February 11 21:50 GMT (UK)
Nothing new.http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=2196

Thanks YT - not new but interesting to see the ship on which he was serving!

Deb - stop looking for passengers - he was crew!!  Or are you looking for passengers for some other reason I haven't yet fathomed??

Though I don't like it much Deb, I think your 'story' has some merit!!   ;)

I really don't think Emily left a will - we've searched and searched and are still searching - Edward left her bankrupt - she may not have had anything to leave!!   Yeah,  I know . . . . .!!!! 

Her father was well heeled - but he doesn't seem to have left her much in his will - presuming her husband would take care of her I suppose.   and he may not have had time to realise the state of affairs, as he died a week after Edward.

Re birth cert for Edna F. -  Jaywit and Toni have warned that it may not enlighten much anyway.


Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased . . . . . . . . . .  ;D ;D

OK JM - if Edna's cert. PROVES that Edward was her father, I might go for the next marriage cert.    ;)

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 February 11 00:02 GMT (UK)
There is ONE thing that does not really make sense to me...

I know that the family advised the Tas Supreme Court in 1934 that Edward Cecil GAUNT was last seen on the SS Suffolk in 1908 etc ....  BUT .... How/who/when was that discovered ... was it in 1927 or was it in 1908 when he then went missing .... a rhetorical question of course....

The Passenger list (which includes crew) has E C Gaunt, aged 38, native place MAIDSTONE ... so initially I had presumed that would be Maidstone, Kent UK .... BUT ....

Did I overlook that there's Maidstone near Devonport in TASMANIA ?  Yes, I did overlook that cause it did not occur to me to even check that until now.... It's only a locality NOW ... wonder what it was back in the 1860's .... and and and ... there's a Maidstone in Melbourne Victoria too .... 
 
Wiggy ...  Edward and Emily GAUNT ... did they or their respective parents or other family members have property at Maidstone, Tasmania  or Maidstone, Melbourne ;D...

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 February 11 00:29 GMT (UK)
I'm trying to stay calm here

. . . .  but I might have found Edward Cecil leaving Australia!   I mean how many Cecil Gaunts are there in Aus at the time -    :-\   ::)   ;D

From Melbourne  -  Cecil Gaunt 32 on the Narrung to London via the cape Dec. 1896   (1896 - 004)   

I'd only looked in Tasmania before - being a bit narrow minded in these things - he could easily have left Tasmania as plain Mr Gaunt.  Will search Tas again!  or Victoria incoming!

Wiggy     :D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 February 11 00:38 GMT (UK)
Fingers crossed

BUT ....

don't overlook that other Cecil Gaunt ... the one born in Victoria who became Lt Col Cecil Gaunt ... could that chap on the Narrung to London be Cecil Robert Gaunt .... http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A080647b.htm

Oh my fingers are crossed, I do hope you are finding ECG and NOT CRG

JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 February 11 00:50 GMT (UK)
yes well he could - and I can't find ECG leaving Tasmania - but then he might have sailed over in on of the family yachts   ;D    ;)    8)

Oh well - that age was absolutely correct for my guy though - was Cecil Robert exactly the same age???    says she clutching at straws!!     Must go back and see!    I wish I could keep just a little of this info in my head!!!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 26 February 11 00:54 GMT (UK)
Wiggy

Was looking at the passenger list as it stated that they all left Liverpool via Cape Town ...the crew list did not state that ... !

deb
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 26 February 11 00:58 GMT (UK)
re Cecil Gaunt .... I do think he is Cecil Robert Gaunt ...he travels back and forth a lot ...

ECG ... never seemed to lie about his name even when marrying for the 2nd time and also , hopefully , being EC Gaunt aboard the SS Suffolk ....

Cecil seems to also be traveling when ECG is making babies  ;D

deb
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 26 February 11 01:08 GMT (UK)
okay ...all supposition ....BUT

what if the famly knew about ECG's family in England ...so during the years of his disappearance they were trying to find him and were investigating...the only place they could start would be with Edith Forsyth or perhaps the kids .....

Wiggy could you post the names and DOB of ECG's siblings so we can look for passenger lists for them hopefully arriving in Liverpool.

deb ...trying outside the box again  ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 26 February 11 01:12 GMT (UK)
O M G ...we have a "who do you think you are" on ....Kim Cattrell ... we don't get them often here so I'm off to sit and watch .....

biab

deb
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 February 11 02:05 GMT (UK)
ECG's siblings  are:    All younger than E.C. by the way    (Only listing the live ones mind you)

Ella Constance - married Claude Irvine 1889 - child 1894 -

Frederick Archer  - married 1898 -  children 1899, 1900, 1904 and 1907.

Norman Stuart  -  married 1904 -  children 1905, 1911, 1918, 1921.

Emily May - married Charles Booth, 1895 - children 1900, 1902, 1912.

Evelyn Sarah - you can count her out - she was having children all the time here, and didn't go overseas!   I know!!   ;)

Arthur Douglas b 1885 - was away at the war - returned home married and had children 1925 and 27.   May have looked while away, maybe?

Leila b 1887  married Alan Pye 1931 - no children - lived in NZ.

Kathleen b 1890 married Arthur Salt? date, but after 1914  - one child, Douglas don't know date yet.  Lived NSW after marriage. 

And that's it!!

Pity about Cecil R - ah well - these things are sent to try us!!    ::)  Kids arriving - I'm gone!

Wiggy 








Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 February 11 13:29 GMT (UK)
 ;D   CREW LISTS This snippet from A2A
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-logbooks-crewlists-after-1861.htm

2. Agreement and Crew Lists 1861 - 1938 and 1950 - 1994
In BT 99 , The National Archives holds a random 10% sample of the Agreements and Crew Lists, for the periods 1861 to 1938 and again from 1950 to 1994. For the period 1861 to 1923, they can be searched for on the Catalogue (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue) using the ship's Official Number (obtainable from the Mercantile Navy Lists). After that date, the Catalogue gives ranges of ship's Official Numbers. See the separate section below on The National Archives' World War 2 holdings.
When the files were being selected for preservation a decision was taken on how to dispose of all those not taken by The National Archives. The National Maritime Museum took 10% and County Record Offices, took some for the period 1863-1913. The rest, approximately 70% of the Agreements and Crew Lists, 1863-1938 and 1951-1976, were transferred to the Maritime History Archive, Memorial University, St John's, Newfoundland, Canada A1C 5S7 (www.mun.ca/mha/).


Edward Cecil GAUNT b 1864, .  EC Gaunt aged 38, a fireman listed as crew on the SS Suffolk in Australian Waters in May and in June 1908. 

 ;D  ;D  ALSO  http://www.crewlist.org.uk/ NB! CLIP is confined to merchant seafarers on British registered ships for the years 1861 to 1913.The CLIP crew name index is now available online at findmypast 
Cheers  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 February 11 14:35 GMT (UK)
 ;D

I am "all at sea" but the MHA number for the SS Suffolk is 115859 and there's crew agreements available from 1904 to 1927 .... AGH there's that 1927 mentioned again...  Is that a co-incidence, or is that indicating that ECG's TAS family read in one of the newspapers in 1927 that the SS Suffolk was to be scrapped etc...

Official_No:  115859
 http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=115859
1904:  E2
1906:  E2
1907:  E2
1908:  E2
1909:  E2
1911:  E2
1912:  E2
1914:  D1
1916:  E2
1918:  E2
1919:  E1
1921:  E1
1923:  E2
1924:  E1
1926:  E2
1927:  C2

Its a tad toooooooooo late for me to make much sense of that, but hopefully other RChatters will know...

Cheers,  JM
 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 27 February 11 06:53 GMT (UK)
I've been to that list JM and that page  - I can't get beyond that page though -  :-\ :-\   

Seems as if you need to go to NA for this research - armed with ships numbers etc etc.    Also did you notice that the ship with that number is registered or built of something in London - I suppose it means registered there, as I've been told by someone that it was built in Liverpool - you or someone else.   
There is another ship also registered in 1902 which was sail and strip steam - does that mean they rejigged the same ship  - but it has a different though consecutive number!!  115860.

Anyhow I still cant get to the crew lists - don't know why.   :(

I am thinking that the family heard of the scrapping of that ship and began making enquiries which then had to wait for the statutory 7 years before they could proceed.  Hence the 1934 date.   Seems reasonable to me.   which suggests they knew nothing further about any of ECG's activities in UK!!    Suspect I am just repeating something which you've all deduced long ago - but there you are - (little aggy the one at the back!! - that's me!   ::))

Wiggy 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 February 11 07:01 GMT (UK)
 ;D

I suspect there's a fee or charge that applies, but I am sure that I read that these crew lists are in NOVA SCOTIA ....  yep,  rescued by the Nova Scotians when Kew only wanted a 10% sample thingy ... 

Do you have any Nova Scotian contacts ..... perhaps DebsUSA may have some thoughts....

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 27 February 11 07:05 GMT (UK)
Funny you should ask that JM -  I do as a matter of fact!!   

Bet they would bee much too busy for this sort of caper though!!    Too busy running the choirs of the county!   Don't think family history is their scene at all at all - but they might know of someone who is in this line!!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 February 11 07:09 GMT (UK)
Yep, a fee, seems like $40 (in Canadian Dollars) to start, and then a photocopy fee on top, and I can't figure out if that's $40 for each ship's file or for each year ...

Have you hunted around through newspapers etc to find names of other ships in Australian ports at same time as SS Suffolk in May & June 1908 (in case his contract with SS Suffolk finished then and he had signed on with a different ship.  

Then armed with those ships names, get their registered numbers too ... ready to get your money's worth if the fee is for a whole year !  And of course, I am suggesting you do aim to get 1908 ....  There MUST be some info written into either the Suffolk's log or the particular crews list for that voyage .... either he signed off, or he went missing, and the name of the port that happened at can help ....  

Cheers,  JM
 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 27 February 11 07:22 GMT (UK)
Well I will take on board you suggestions - but I will also go slowly until I get Edna Frances G's birth certificate - you just never know your luck - it might say something useful!!    :)

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 March 11 09:36 GMT (UK)
 Hi folks,

Have just heard from a Hilditch descendant to whom I wrote - one of Edna's children -  8)

He at least seemed to know who Edward was and made the comment that Edward died quite some time ago - I've written back post-haste to ask him what else he knows - like when and where and minor details like that!!    I DO HOPE he knows!! 
I also hope we are talking about the same Edward!!

Fingers, eyes, toes etc crossed-   Gee it is hard to type like this!    ::) ;D ;D

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Tuesday 01 March 11 09:44 GMT (UK)
Agh,  Wiggy,

Fingers crossed, toes (nearly) crossed, (that perhaps) he has photos of ECG too, and perhaps a sea trunk full of info about ECG's mother's father's mum and earlier generations on that line  ;D

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: jaywit on Tuesday 01 March 11 09:45 GMT (UK)
Wiggy That's brilliant, now you have contact you never know where it will lead.  Just need to see that marriage certificate now.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 01 March 11 09:55 GMT (UK)



Great news, Wiggy....... let's hope it's all the right information.     :D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 March 11 10:20 GMT (UK)
Acting on a hunch from the tenor of the contact's writing, I've just been searching for Edward Gaunts who died in UK from 1927 to 1936.

There are two I find interesting but I don't know how things work in UK - if someone here had indexes, they could see more 'info'! -  does it work that way in UK??

 Edward Gaunt, died Derby aged 54 (that's two years under for my guy)  3rd Q 1930, 7b 561.

there was one other -

died Luton aged 60 -(once again 2 years out - over this time) 2ndQ 1932,  3b 406

Can anyone see more than that please?? -  if not, no matter!!  Just thought it might be worth a look -

Those are the only two for those years who even come close to the right age.

cheers folks,

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: jaywit on Tuesday 01 March 11 10:25 GMT (UK)
Wiggy I don't think either of those are yours.

There is one born Nottingham living in Derby in 1901 and the other born Bedfordshire ( where Luton is) so it looks as though it's them.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 March 11 10:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks for looking Jaywit!   That's all I needed  - just to know!! 

I've also looked in Queensland in case he came over here to 'be with his daughter'   ;)

 - -  been thinking about that too - Edna would be the female equivalent of Edward wouldn't it - and Frances was Edward's grandmother's name 'as I think I have mentioned . . .  and  James was a very small snail'!  ;)   ;D

so my other thought was that Edward may have died soon before Edna was born and she was named in his memory . . . . . just that we can't find the evidence!!   ;)

OK bed time in Aus.

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 March 11 20:53 GMT (UK)
Just been doing maths in the shower - and have realised that the year George Hilditch, husband of Edna, died was also the year Edward would have been 100 - so delete any reference to Edna and Edward being together in QLD!! 

Thing about FH is that you have to be able to add and subtract too!   ::) - no wonder I'm not so good at it!!!   ;D ;D

Wiggy

p.s.   Hope that contact replies soon - I'm in 'suspenders' now!!   ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Rufous Treecreeper on Wednesday 02 March 11 02:14 GMT (UK)
Great news Wiggy  :D  Glad they replied so promptly and hope they do again  :)  It would be so exciting to find out what became of ECG!

Mo
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 02 March 11 04:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Mo,

I've found the Ancestry tree from which you've got 'info' - and it appears there are four offspring of Edna and George Hilditch.   Three boys and a girl.    You'd reckon one of them would know something about Grandfather wouldn't you!!  Here's hoping!

Can only find one and he was going with his mother to Kenya in 1948 - have been looking through the overseas births - can't see anything.

All appear to be still living - and so they should be - have worked out they are my generation!!!    ;D ;D

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 21 March 11 06:31 GMT (UK)
Hello scavengers,

I've had two very peculiar replies from the son of Edna - just a lot of 'expletive' type characters - but I don't think he was swearing at me - don't know what that was all about - nothing just a row of "*@$^&%($"  type printing??    No name or anything - I wonder if someone has hacked into his email address?     Is this what happens does anyone know?

Also how long will I wait before contacting GRO to see where those certificates are??  It is almost 4 weeks now since I sent the order and the money!!  The money was processed immediately - well, I suppose it would be but . . . ???

Wiggy   ::)   :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 22 March 11 09:44 GMT (UK)



Now, Wiggy........... get in touch now.   At least they'll be able to tell you when they were posted, so you can make enquiries at the Post Office.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 22 March 11 09:50 GMT (UK)
Sent letters today asking what was going on!!   Now another wait until I hear from them!!

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 22 March 11 09:58 GMT (UK)



There's an email address you can contact, much quicker than snail mail      ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 22 March 11 10:01 GMT (UK)
yep  When I said letters I meant Emails!   ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 22 March 11 10:13 GMT (UK)



Next step....... phone them             ;D ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 22 March 11 10:16 GMT (UK)
If nothing arrives soon that will be on the cards too!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 March 11 04:07 GMT (UK)
So there I am about to take off for a few days and what lands in the letter box but the LONG AWAITED  certificates!!

Edna's birth says she was daughter of Edward Cecil and Edith Gaunt - as expected - Edith was the informant!!

Edith's second marriage to George Forsyth says she was a widow - also as expected.  George was a Baker - (and the George in the Kenya Regiment was his son George.  I have it from the horse's brother.)    The marriage was held in a registry office parties lived next door to each other at the time according to the certificate.   Witnesses are not names I recognize - Maud Newhouse and J N Threlfall - both fathers of the couple were already dead.

I have heard from a descendant of Edith's that Edward abandoned his family, leaving Edith with three young children.   She couldn't manage and put Claude into an orphanage - hence the Barnardo's home and references.

The informant believes Edward took off to Tasmania when he left the family - this doesn't quite add up,  unless Edna is indeed George Forsyth's natural daughter.  I have been invited to ring my contact so will do that probably - in the next few days maybe.  Have further email contacts to make to sort that out.

However it looks as if we are looking for Edward's death outside Britain!!     Hmmmmmm    ::) 

Wiggy

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 March 11 04:30 GMT (UK)
So....

It is entirely possible that Edward Cecil G may NOT have told his family in Tasmania about his second marriage ... and thus they were unaware that he had three English born children...  AND he didn't keep in contact with his Tas family either, for THEY thought he had disappeared "beyond the seas"in May or June 1908 ... but in fact he disappeared during WWI ... 

So we are looking for ECG perhaps using an alias (umm ... RANSOM was his mum's m.s., but there's always Mrs G # 1's m.s. or Edward Cecil GRANT or ....  ::) ) ...

Interesting though that Edith's second marriage says she was a widow ... any possible clues as to when she became one ... any faint writing or obscure marks somewheres.   I presume that the Registrar would have asked her about that .... but it was during war time, so it would be easier for him to accept say "he fell at the front" .... BUT he ought to have checked .... Back in pre civil registration days and when the penal colonies were still just that, if either party was NOT either a bachelor or a spinster, then the widowed party needed to sign various legal documents before the licence to marry was approved.  This was based on UK instructions issued by WHITEHALL... And the original parish record was meant to include the licence # so that those affidavits etc could be easily found if anyone came forward to make a complaint of bigamy...

WWI UK medal cards  (but he would have been quite old, so had to fib on enlistment papers if that was his way to bolt )
OR
in any of the Dominions WWI records 
OR
as a merchant navy chap
OR
............................. hypothetically there's always  Plan  D, E, F or any of the other remaining letters of the alphabet

We can eliminate the one at Five Dock NSW in 1913 ...
BUT we cannot eliminate the one in 1908 on the SS Suffolk...
AND we need to think of where-else to look, or else we have yet another ERNEST on the books ...

Ummm.... Perhaps there's an RChatter with some deep knowledge of those records in the Nova Scotia archives ........ for crew lists etc.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 March 11 04:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Wiggy,

Also, on Edna's b.c. what was ECG's occupation and his then address.  ... And is that near to the address of either Edith's address on her m.c. to George...

Can those witnesses on the m.c.  be found on any records in the UK? (They were  Maud Newhouse and J N Threlfall)

Cheers, JM   
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 March 11 05:51 GMT (UK)
Wiggy, what EXACT date did Edith marry George please...

There's an Edward RANSOM who fell in France, possible 20 Oct 1915 (although this could be enlistment date)... although I don't have a clue about reading the Medal Cards properly...

RANSOM Edward, Cpl,     Rif Brig,     Reg. # S/9992     
3 Medals ...   VICTORY M/102  B/18 2375      BRITISH    do   do       15/Star   M/1B    776
 K i A   Theatre of War    FRANCE   Qualifying Data  20 . 10 . 15
B W & V H Roll amended to read Cpl  Auth M/102  B/18 Enc  5A
N.B, where the address could be ... it is left blank.

OR    (AND notice same date)
Edward RANSOM, Pte, R.A.S.C. R.E. , Regtl # T4/129095;  WR1254849;    153642
3 Medals ... VICTORY RE/102  B67  page 13555        BRITISH   do   do       15 Star   R.E. /19C  703

And under the heading REMARKS and bracketed to the references for the Victory and the British medals

Ret'd  (992 TR  1923)  8426 / aldt

Theatre  of War first served in    (1)

Date of Entry therein 20.10.15

Perhaps a quick post on the WWI board for help  if I may make a suggestion ...

Cheers,  JM 

PS.  I think second one would be   Royal Army Service Corps, Royal Engineers, Royal Engineers  BUT THESE COULD ALSO REFER TO THE ONE PERSON ... noticing that the  medals may have been Ret'd  ... perhaps R E T U R N E D ....
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 March 11 06:23 GMT (UK)
1. Edna was born at 65 Miles street Toxteth Park. on 3 Mar 1914 - birth was registered on 23 April 1914 - that's not quite 2 months after the event!!    Edward's occupation was given as Electrical Engineer (Journeyman) - like that with the 'journeyman' in brackets.

2. Edith was remarried on 6 March, 1915 at Registry Office, District of West Derby, County of Liverpool they lived at 20 and 22 Barnet Street West Derby.     (There is a note outside the columns,  to the right of  the cert which appears to say twenty twenty - no idea what that means - if anything!)

I think Edward could have been too old for the war!   50 in 1914 - but he may have put his age down    :-\   ::)
- even so I bet he wouldn't have been taken on so early in the war - unless he was still on board a ship which was co-opted into the war effort - I find that hard to believe so early in the piece - it was still the phoney war until Christmas of that year wasn't it??   They weren't calling all comers until later were they? -  after all they kept thinking it would be 'all over by Christmas' -  :-\ 

This continues to pose problems!!    ::)

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 March 11 10:06 GMT (UK)
Might be an idea to search the NZ BDMs for any sight of him - my next task!

 - specially if Claude came this way looking for him - well came this way anyhow!! -  maybe looking for him with vengeance in his heart considering what happened to him!

Wiggy   
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Saturday 26 March 11 10:18 GMT (UK)
So in theory, based on the documentary lawful evidence that your hard earned pennies procured,  ECG was with Edith in August 1913, and at that time he was an Electrical Engineer (Journeyman) but sometime before 6 March 1915, Edith had not only become a widow but had met and become engaged to George and  so she married George on 6 March 1915 ... but George didn't want Claude around, and Edna retained Edward's surname, marrying as a Gaunt in preference to her step father's surname... 

Intriguing ... 

Cheers,  JM 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Saturday 26 March 11 10:30 GMT (UK)
Very intriguing  - and not necessarily so,  as Jaywit and others have pointed out!! 

Wish something would fall into place!!   ::)   ;)

I've driven a long way - I'm off! - thought it was feeling later than my watch is saying - it says 7.30 - but the computer says 9.30  and it feels like 9 30!!

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 March 11 15:40 BST (UK)
Hi    Suggestion..... read replies 11  12  14  and put dates into line with recently received certs  and also look  back at when that chap resigned from the labor league.   agh....  theree is ECG could well be.   Pennies to be saved up BUT get the lancs cert first  ie mc for 1915 for Edward Gaunt.  Wiggy again I have woken up in middle of night with the thought PRIMARY docs are best ever better than the official docs which are second hand record of the primary doc.           Cheers  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 30 March 11 03:17 BST (UK)
Right - well as quite a few of the people concerned are still living, I am being careful with what I am now writing - but I have permission to tell some of the story.   Had a long chat with my distant rellie last night.

Edward abandoned the family as I already said - but the timing of his abandoning is unclear - apparently after Edna was conceived.

My informant doesn't know much because the next generation was also a bit tricky, and he had little to do with his mother.

Apparently Edna was also left with a child and  after some time, and chat with her MiL with whom she got on well, she followed her husband out to East Africa with the child - that's the one we found in the shipping indexes - where the second child was born - another split with her husband,  followed by yet another reconciliation at which point the third child was born, also in East Africa.   Edna was a 'bit of a socialite' and George was not convinced all the children were his - they split up again and both parties remarried.  George had another family with his second wife - not sure about Edna, but I don't  think so.

George died in Mombasa as we know. He'd been a ship Engineer also like Edward. The family returned to UK I think and my informant was brought up there - he later came to Australia tracing the rest of his siblings who had been split up after Edna and George parted company - Edna took a couple and George took the other.

What is very interesting is that I was able to track Edna to QLD where she died in 2005 - because by that time she had remarried and her death cert. is in her second husband's name - even though I traced her by her first husband's name - work that one out - 'cos I can't!

The end result is that I am no further ahead with finding Edward - but my informant is going to UK later this year and will go searching at N.A. Kew, in the hope of finding  Edward on the crew lists!  (If he hasn't surfaced in the meantime.)  He might even look for Matthias Gaunt while he's there, if I remember to ask him nicely - 'cos he's his Gx3 too!   I wonder if I can stretch the friendship and ask him to look for another missing seaman while he's there!!    ::) :-\    ;)

It would seem that the family in Tasmania were in ignorance of the UK family - from what we can gather.

Wiggy

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 30 March 11 03:25 BST (UK)
JM - you keep saying primary documents and I do understand what you are saying - but when I send for what I think are the best I can get, I get the transcribed documents - I don't know how to go about getting primary docs other than visiting the actual records office,  and right this minute am not going to chase them either - I think my informant is now sufficiently interested to carry on searching himself, and it is his direct family.
 
- I actually asked him if he felt annoyed/affronted that others were rummaging round in his immediate family history - but he didn't, so that was OK.   
I was trying to put myself in his place and think how I would feel if I suddenly came across people finding all about my immediate family.

Thanks so much for all your help everyone - will post more if anything conclusive comes to light!

Wiggy    :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Rufous Treecreeper on Wednesday 30 March 11 03:30 BST (UK)
Straight from the horses mouth so to speak, Wiggy.  I think, while not a definative answer to what became of ECG it is almost better.  Certainly much more interesting than an entry in a death index.  Your perseverance has paid of and you've got a handy new cousin as well  :D

All the best,
Mo
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Wednesday 30 March 11 03:37 BST (UK)
Congrats Wiggy,

Agree with Mo

Much better to have 'meat on the bones' than just an index reference, especially as your new found cousin IS interested in his own direct line ...  Yes, do ask him for those favours to add to his TO DO list.  I am sure that if he can progress your research he will.  When I go to archival offices I tend to have my own TO DO list and also try to have a couple of "FOR OTHERS TO DO" lists. 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Wednesday 30 March 11 07:49 BST (UK)


Well done to Wiggy and to Wiggy's rellie........... while he's at Kew, I wonder if he'd have a look for...........    that man!!!        ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 30 March 11 07:54 BST (UK)
Ernest would that be??    ;D ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Wednesday 30 March 11 08:04 BST (UK)
Ernest's shadow could be hiding behind the fourth row of the second set of the double doors that you get to after you have gone down past the basement's hidden passageways and found the back door and then used the BIG key on the other set of keys that were hidden by Ernest when he sought to disappear.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 30 March 11 08:10 BST (UK)
Well anyway I am feeling proud of myself for finally finding Claude Cecil going to Canada and returning 4 years later - Yes I know everyone else found him for me - but now I have found him for myself which is rather clever - but thanks for being pointed in the right direction!! 

Can't find him leaving and heading in this direction though - that's what I was searching for at the time!!  Oh well it isn't a complete waste of time!   ;)

Can't be looking for Ernest - he's too shifty - worse even than Edward - actually i reckon they are secreted together somewhere!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Wednesday 30 March 11 11:42 BST (UK)



Mmmmmmmmmmm, I reckon majm's right.........  he's behind the...................     
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Rufous Treecreeper on Thursday 31 March 11 02:20 BST (UK)
I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Ernest - but is it possible he's in the handbag?

Mo
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Thursday 31 March 11 07:53 BST (UK)



Mo..........  Pleasure and Ernest do NOT go in the same sentence!!!!    ::)   As for the handbag........ could be, could be         ;D ;D
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Monday 25 April 11 01:19 BST (UK)
@wiggy

I'm a decedent of olive gaunt, send me a pm if you can (I can't see how to send one) 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 01:31 BST (UK)
Oh wow!!   8)   ;)

post once more on this thread - then you and I will be able to exchange PMs!  Just answer this!

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Monday 25 April 11 01:35 BST (UK)
Ok we will see.   
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 01:40 BST (UK)
Hi there idleart,

Welcome to RChat ....  

That's your third !  PM facilities should be fully functioning now.  You can click on the green button under Wiggy's (or anyone elses) Avatar and get to the PM options.

Wow Wiggy .... Fingers crossed here.

Cheers,


JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 01:50 BST (UK)
Welcome indeed - thanks for making contact!

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Tephra on Monday 25 April 11 05:51 BST (UK)



Welcome to Rootschat, Idleart....... no doubt Wiggy is still jumping up and down at finding another relly     ;D ;D

Barbara
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Monday 25 April 11 06:09 BST (UK)
I don't know if I can be of much help, ECG is an enigma to me and my branch of the family as well.
All I know is that Claude ended up in Australia, Olive talked to him on the phone. 

As for ECG he supposedly left for the Isle of Man when he abandoned Claude and Olive but that isn't concrete.
Edna wasn't born at the time as far as I know.


 
 
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 06:34 BST (UK)
Idleart,

Agh but do you understand that ECG was father Edna or only to the two younger ones ...    hoping to pin down a year for his last sighting ... and still giving a tad of consideration to a marriage for an Edward GAUNT and Elizabeth CONNOLLY as per index this was 1915 at West Derby Registry Office ...  and copy of that certificate can be ordered via Lancashire BDM reference REG WD/313/107  .... this ref number is so very very close to that website's ref for Edith GAUNT's marriage to George Forsyth ... (REG WD/313/117)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Cheers,  JM

Idleart, RChat is a great place for help with any of your ancestors ... and the Scavenger Hunts are fantastic as so many fresh eyes are always willing to help.

Ummm.... he fetched himself off to IOM ... now what did he intend doing there ... 

And Wiggy and Barbara,  I can hear you saying HE WENT TO HIDE, he was most Ernest in his endeavours .... yes, well but of course ... "Wiggy's Teddy went to IOM for it is beyond the seas".   Most likely it reminded him of VDL err  TAS  8)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 06:58 BST (UK)
yer talking in riddles MAJM!!

I have found another marriage close to Edith and George Forsyth - Cecil Edward married Florence B Towers 7a  451 - only two records away from Edith .  Names reversal - happened in Leicester - I thought someone had said the other Edward marriage close to Edith was a furfy - didn't someone find that was a different bloke - will have to check again now!

I can understand why the family weren't in a hurry to meet up with our Ed again - sounds as if he wasn't the best of fathers!!

How can I see those records without spending good money on them?? - 'cos though I'd like to find him, there are lots of other direct ancestors I'd rather spend my pennies on!!    And if there is now way then . . .  I guess he is going to remain hidden!

I will now chase Claude in Australia.   

Do we have any clues as to which part of Australia, please Idleart?

Seems as you all suggested that Edward was not father of Edna - though she did take after him in some ways by the sound of things from other contacts I've made.
The 'Edward as father' and the 'widowhood' could have been matters of convenience as was suggested by several.

Wiggy

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 07:26 BST (UK)
Wiggy are you looking at GRO marriages, or at the LANCS link .... cause both Edward GAUNT and Edith GAUNT are recorded as at West Derby Registry Office in 1915 at the Lancs link.  (twelve marriages for surname GAUNT in 1915 in Lancashire on that website)...

GRO
Cecil Edward GAUNT is in Volume 7a ....  1st Qtr 1915
Edith GAUNT is in Volume 8b 1st Qtr 1915
Edward GAUNT is in Volume 8b  4th Qtr 1915

Volume 8b covered The district W.Derby is an alternative name for West Derby and it is in the county of Lancashire

Volume 7a covered The district Leicester is an alternative name for Leicester and it is in the county of Leicestershire

Cheers,  JM (talking in riddles !!!, well that's what happens when using wifi, at least though it is on a stick thingy and not via the even more clunky reader tablet)...
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 07:48 BST (UK)
No - I know it happened - but I think someone found that other Edward on the birth register - that's what I meant. I think it was proven that he was another Edward.

Will have to re read the whole thread again!! I am getting confused again!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: regross on Monday 25 April 11 07:52 BST (UK)
Wiggy nice to see you working on this puzzle with a scavenger hunt.

you have probably seen these but nothing ventrued nothing gained

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THD19000428.2.52&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0--

reported in American papers also
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1900-07-01/ed-1/seq-10/;words=Cecil+Gaunt

which makes me wonder why report almost word for word the same thing in the NY papers.

canadian link for 1915 ww1servicerecord for an Edward Guant service record
remote chance but there is a canadian link for his son
http://www.archive.org/details/CEF_39thBattalion_1915

added also most likely a coincidence but note paretnts names
http://www.awm.gov.au/research/people/roll_of_honour/person.asp?p=578702


Robyn
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 09:31 BST (UK)
Hi Robyn

No, I  hadn't seen any of those - but none of them apply to our Gaunts.  The co-incidence of names is interesting isn't it.

the family of this one has ended up in NZ, but not as Gaunts!

thanks for the links!

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Monday 25 April 11 22:06 BST (UK)
found this don't know if it's of any relevance though

http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/default.aspx?detail=1&type=I&id=SWD1/1/241
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 25 April 11 22:19 BST (UK)
Well that's an interesting one

- I don't think it is 'related' - Edward C didn't have any children by his first marriage and Edward senior, Gx2,  stayed with his real name - too well known to be anyone else I think.

Don't stop looking though!!!    ;D ;D

Wiggy
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: regross on Tuesday 26 April 11 06:16 BST (UK)
Wiggy

Just a couple of examples or events where serving war personel died in teh time period and not all were idenetified.

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCasAlpha1914-18G.htm
http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/Letters/NWHulldiedinexplosionofHM.html


and intersting South afrian co-inicdence of engenieer reistrations in the time frame:
http://www.ecsa.co.za/index.asp?x=seek

Robyn
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 26 April 11 08:10 BST (UK)
Robyn you are as ever very good at finding references in obscure places!! I don't know how you do it!!

I think our Edward was too old for the first world war  - the Boer war is a possibility - haven't been able to nail him there yet though -

It would seem that Edward had already deserted the family by the time Olive was born - but then he wouldn't have been at home if he were on the SS Suffolk in Australia so . . .  :-\

Tricky.       He would appear to be rather good at ditching his family however!!

Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: regross on Tuesday 26 April 11 12:41 BST (UK)

http://www.baberfamilytree.org/worldwide/non-connected-trees.htm

someone else researching  E.C. Gault as a side connecetion to their tree

Robyn
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 26 April 11 13:01 BST (UK)
Wow Robyn - I will contact that person tomorrow- don't think that is correct at all - unless Olive married twice - and her descendants are not saying anything about that!

Looks pretty suss but will make contact and see what can be sorted out!

Thanks for that link!

Wiggy   ;)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 26 April 11 23:03 BST (UK)
Idleart - you are closer to the action for this one - what do you think about it??

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Wednesday 27 April 11 04:54 BST (UK)
Yes I'll see if I can get some clarification.
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 27 April 11 09:23 BST (UK)
What we have discovered is that ECG was not a nice man - (a friend of King John's I believe - A.A Milne!  ;))

Edna it seems, is very unlikely to be his as he'd left the family almost before Olive was born - e.g. before he sailed to Aus on the Suffolk in 1908, possibly.  Understandably enough he wasn't talked about much! 

Edward's children didn't hit it off with George Forsyth much either - so they had a pretty hard time of it.   Claude grew up in Barnardos homes for much of his childhood.   I found Olive living with her aunt and uncle in 1911.

Can't find death of Claude - but for death of Edith, the hunt should be at the beginning of the war - 1940-41 and in Faraday Street where the family had been living for some time.     Don't know much about Edith's Forsyth family, but the Gaunt part - (with Edna) seemed to stick together, and have kept in contact - though they lost contact with Claude after a bit.    Think I have this right.

Olive and family migrated to NZ as did Edna and family.   They did not know about the Tasmanian connection - so Idleart has a host of new rellies to get his head around!

I will leave it to Idleart to add any more history which he feels might be for public scrutiny, as this is his own family - (and we are now moving into the region of the living rellies - so verboten!)
- ( that's the best bit - I am now in touch with one of Edward's great grandchildren!)

Thanks to you all for your searching  and your contributions to this hunt!

Wiggy     :)
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 April 11 14:06 BST (UK)
Agh .... so it is likely that ECG's mother (Emily, 1845-1921) never knew the fate of this her eldest child ... and most likely did not know of her grandchildren (on that line) either. 

On a brighter note though,  it is so very good to learn that Idleart has found Emily's descendants .... and that Wiggy has found further info about those grandchildren and MADE CONTACT with one of ECG's great grandchildren ....  now would that be a great great great great grandchild of Catharine Christina oh I do so hope I have counted off the right number of greats ... just in case here's another for Catharine THE GREAT ....

These Scavenger Hunts are another of the bestest features of RChat ....

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 27 April 11 23:10 BST (UK)
Actually it is good that Idleart has found his ancestors on his grandmother's side!   Those are the ones he didn't have!!  - - as well as the descendants!!  - (though, he only knows me so far so he can't get too joyful!!   ;D)

Wiggy     ;)

Edit to add:
Oh yes - Edith's death - found that 4th quarter 1941 in Liverpool North!
Title: Re: WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2
Post by: idleart on Wednesday 27 April 11 23:31 BST (UK)
It's been amazing for me to discover that I have ties to Tasmania.
Would never have guessed that or known if I hadn't been feeling nostalgic on ANZAC day.
So thanks everyone for an interesting journey.