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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: Roecoyle on Friday 25 February 11 03:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi, would anyone know where/what country the surname DLDDYHM would originate from?.
I still have`nt been able to find any record of it although i have been searching for ages.
I have mentioned the surname on the deciphering post/board and i agree this is the
correct spelling and i thank all the people who responded to that post. This surname
is obviously foriegn but i have no idea of where to search for foriegn names, thought
i would give this board a try. many thanks.
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Previous threads-
Lissa McKay Dlddyhm, help please. (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,499767.msg3565734.html#msg3565734) (Aberdeenshire)
help needed to decipher brides surname. (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,512552.msg3685830.html#msg3685830) (Deciphering & Recognition Help)
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Looking at the two images it seems to be clearly Deddy-something or possibly D'Eddy-something
There is a lady and 2 year old daughter with a similar name in the 1901 census at 23 St Andrews Mansions, St Marylebone. Looks like Mrs Deddyln, 22, and daughter Kathleen, 2, both from Brickley (?Bruckley?), Scotland.
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news.google.com I think has an article about her first marriage! Search for "Lisa McKay", it's an article in 1903 with the title "Groom's Name Is Dilddgim".
Again, this is probably not the actual spelling, you would have pay to get a copy of the article as it seems to have been OCR'd and the text is rather garbled.
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Good find Jorose!
Trying to squeeze more out of Google's OCR on this:
"Groom's Name Is Dilddgim
Pay-Per-View - The Sun - Jul 27, 1903
... morrilkfc of the marriage In St Andrerrci London on July 2 of Mr Cei*U DlWdglm a prosperous young met* of Wales to Miss Lisa McKayri scotch manicure wJH come aa a surprise Miss McKaybetoro ** had been employed In oneotthe manicure establlshmrntauoCt where ..."
So the first marriage was in July 1903 in London? Or was it?
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Thank you both so very much for your help Shaum J and Jerose.
I will certainly follow up your leads. It looks like that is her first
marriage which i had not found so far. Her second marr took
place in New York on 16th Jan 1904, she must have remarried
very quickly after the death of her first husband. (have`nt found
a death for him yet). I will keep you posted on how i get on.
many thanks. roecoyle.
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In case you haven't got this already.....she is in a 1917 New York Directory:
Lissa McKay Israel (Chas W Israel Co), 132 W21st
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There is a lady and 2 year old daughter with a similar name in the 1901 census at 23 St Andrews Mansions, St Marylebone. Looks like Mrs Deddyln, 22, and daughter Kathleen, 2, both from Brickley (?Bruckley?), Scotland.
They are in the household of Kate H Hapgood and Mrs D is described as a Lady Help
Just wondering whether that could be her. I can't see Elisa McKay in the Scotland census for 1901.
There is a birth registration for a Kathleen McKay in Marylebone in Q/e March 1899 which would fit.
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I certainly haven't been able to spot the marriage and wonder if it actually occurred. The birth for Kathleen McKay is interesting - can't see her on the 1901 census or a death for her.
At any rate if you can get the image of the original newspaper article that will hopefully be readable enough to get the proper spelling. If we can get the groom's proper first name, even, we can probably track him down.
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Adding to the garbled OCR text:
"Special Dispatch to the Baltimore Sun NEW YORK July 26 To their New Yot& the announcement In a morrilkfc of the marriage In St Andrerrci London on July 2 of Mr Cei*U DlWdglm a prosperous young met* of Wales to Miss Lisa McKayri scotch manicure wJH come aa a surprise Miss McKaybetoro ** had been employed In oneotthe manicure establlshmrntauoCt where Mr Dllddglm was aKgalt... "
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Hi Shaum J and Jerome, Thank you both, yes i had the 1917 NY directory.
I checked out the 1901 census which looked like it may have been my
Lisa but according to the marriage notice in the Baltimore Sun the marriage
was in 1903, could she have been calling herself Mrs D before the marr??
Maybe she was his Mistress, maybe he was already marr to someone else.
I have not been able to find the 1903 marr to confirm it. As you say did the
marr take place at all. I am trying to find a death for Mr D as when she marr
husband 2 she is stating she was a widow and this was Jan 1904!
In the 1905 census Manhatton NY she is with her husband Charles and a
daughter aged 1Month and a daughter Frances 8yrs(whom i think is her
step daughter) but no mention of a daughter Kathleen. I will try and post
the notice from the Boston Sun which i purchased but its in PDF form so not
sure if i can post it or not. If not i will transcribe it. many thanks ,roecoyle.
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trying to post it.
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Hi still tying to post the article.
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Sorry its hard to read but i will transcribe it.
Grooms name is Dilddgim.
Special dispatch to the Baltimore Sun, New York, July 26th-
To their New York freinds the announcement in a morning
paper of the marriage in St Andrews Church, London on July 2
of Mr Cecil(i think) Glynee Dilddgim a prosperous young
merchant of Wales, to Miss Lisa McKay a pretty Scotch manicure,
will come as a great surprise. Miss McKay, before her marriage
had been employed in one of the fashionable manicure establishments
of London, where Mr Dilddgim was a regular patron.
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Sorry forgot to type the newsparer heading. as below.
Special dispatch to the Boltimore Sun July 27 1903.
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Hi Roe,
I'm still following your most interesting posts!
Apparently, there are no marriage records for July 1903 posted on the BMD.
Found St, Andrews Church in Hoborn (if that's the church you need) and website states that for records after 1831, contact London Metropolitan Archives, Northampton Road, EC1 0HB.
I'm still not comprehending the part of the marriage announcement that states "for their friends in New York" (were they previously in New York??) and why post the announcement in the Baltimore Sun then? ???
Your search gets more interesting with every post!!
Deborah
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Hi Gracie23, yes its a strange one is`nt it?. I thought that too
about the Boston Sun, why?. I don`t think Lisa would have
been travelling back and forth to New York and have friends
there as she came from a very poor family. Its very strange
to have just been married for 5 months(July 1903) and widowed
and remarried in New York in Jan 1904, how fast is that!
Something funny going on here and its driving me nuts!
It just struck me maybe she was married in 1903 in London USA.
I just presumed it was London England. ???
Thanks for your interest. Roe.
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Perhaps it was London, Ontario? There was also a Wales, Ontario until 1958 :)
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Fascinating thread and each new clue brings more mysteries!
There's a Wales in Erie Co., New York (just east of Buffalo) and only about 170 miles from London, Ontario.
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I wonder if "Cecil" was pulling something - can't find anything about him at all even just using first name searches. Think his middle name might be listed as "Glynes" in the article, but either way... ???
The surname simply doesn't seem to exist. :(
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I thought Cecil's middle name might be Glynne but that was when I was thinking that 'Wales' was the country :-\
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Roe,
I really think this is a Welsh name, whether spelled correctly or not.
May I suggest you post it on the Wales board and see if anyone there can come up with anything you could work with.
If you look at Welsh names, there is a lot with the double d's and strings of letters with one or no vowels! I was reading on a Welsh site last night and it said that some double d's are really a "th" sound" Very interesting language! :o
Deborah
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Many thanks to everyone for your input, all very much appreciated.
I have today sent to GRO London for a copy of the birth for a Kathleen
McKay born 1899 (as suggested by shaunJ), i think this is a good
possibility this is Lisa's daughter. Although in the 1901 census it states
she was born in Scotland, i think this may have been a white lie for
whatever reason. I could not find a birth in GRO Scotland that would
fit, so here's hoping its the London one, If i can confirm this is Lisa's
daughter then i would presume that either Lisa was using this surname
although not married to the gent or she was married a few years before
the marriage notice in the Boston Sun, so why the notice in 1903??.
That's if the surname really existed, i am beginning to wonder.
In the meantime i will try and find a marriage in the other Londons of the world.
I will keep you posted. Roe.
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After following this story in the other threads about the "funny" surname, I'm so glad that you've been able to come this far, Roe!
I had a look in the GRO indexes for the JAS quarter of 1903 for surnames DILDDGIM, DIDDHYM and variants, as well as for Lisa/Elissa/Lissa MCKAY/MACKAY but no sign of either :-\
There's no sign of them in the digitised LMA marriage records, either. If the "St Andrew's" mentioned was in a Westminster parish, it is probably not digitised, and will still be at the Westminster Archives.
I agree with Deborah that it would be an idea to post on the Wales board, for help with the surname, as they may be able to suggest what it is/should be.
Cheers
Prue
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Thanks prueM and Deborah, Yes i will try the Welsh board and i will have a look
into the St Andrews Church records and see what i can dig up.
Many thanks. Roe.
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The only Welsh name I can think of is Dyddgen, which is a Welsh Chapel, a street in Crwbin near Kidwelly, and there's a Welsh Director of a famous UK soap with that as part of his name :)
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Thanks morganallan, thats another one to add to my list. Roe.
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Hi Roe
I wonder if you have considered this family:
birth Cecil Richard F GLYN registered Hamstead Dec Q 1875 (1a/598)
In 1901 Hampstead RG13/Piece1224/Folio132/Page20
Richard H Glyn, age 59, Commision Merchant, Employer, b Canada
Mary A Glyn, age 58, b Essex
Hugh D Glyn, age 29, Unm, solicitor, b London, Hampstead
Cecil R F Glyn, age 25, Unm, Commission Merchant, Employer, b London, Hampstead
Edith G Glyn, age 24, Unm, b Cricklewood, London
Guy G Glyn, age 22, Um, Civil engineer, Cricklewood, London
Plus one servant & a cook
death Cecil Richard F GLYN, age 30, Hendon Jun Q 1906 (3a/133)
Edith Grace Glyn married a Charles Edward Briggs (a clergyman !) at St Andrew’s Well Street, St Marylebone, Westminster on June 9, 1903. According to the marriage register (viewable on An***try) there were no marriages performed between June 20, 1903 and July 16, 1903
Cecil & Edith’s father, Richard Henry GLYN was also a commission agent, born in Quebec. He died in 1913 and his probate indicates an estate of approximately pounds 65000.00 – a lot of money now and even more in 1913 :) I don’t have access but he is mentioned on New York Passenger Lists.
Heather
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Hi Heather, many thanks for your info and interest, no i had not seen this family
but it is certainly interesting and i will have a look into it.
Roe.
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Hi Roe
There is a tree on Ancestry for the Glynn family. It might be worth contacting the tree owner to see if they have more information. Cecil Glynn died May 14, 1906 per the application for administration by his father so possibly his death was unexpected. He may have an obit in the Times?
Keep us posted!
Heather
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Roe,
If you look at Welsh names, there is a lot with the double d's and strings of letters with one or no vowels! I was reading on a Welsh site last night and it said that some double d's are really a "th" sound" Very interesting language! :o
Deborah
Hi Deborah,
Glad you find our language interesting; the way it is written certainly makes it different from present-day English. The double-d sound is simply the sound of 'th' in English mother, bother, this, the, etc. Older English used to write 'th' in its different apparitions as two separate letters, thorn and etha. Also 'w' and 'y' are treated as vowels in Welsh, leading to the possibility of a perfectly normal Welsh word such as 'bwydydd' (foods) appearing to have no vowels at all.
The surname in your post seems to have no relation to any Welsh name I can imagine, with the slight exception of Morganllan's 'Dyddgen'. I think the Baltimore Sun was being a little creative in its decipherment of someone's scrawl.
Anyway, best of luck in your search,
Pinot :)
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Recieved the birth cert for (as mentioned in previous post) the Kathleen McKay as follows.
24th Feb 1899 at Queen Charlotts Hosp. Maryleborne Rd.
Name Kathleen (no surname listed on cert for child)
fathers name. ------ none.
mothers name. Elizabeth McKay, housemaid of St George`s
Informant, E McKay. 132 Alderney St. Pimlico.
???Whats the chances of this being Elisa/Lissa McKay and Mrs Deddyhn
on the 1901 census with her 2yr old daughter.
I still have not been able to find a child born in Scotland that would fit
and Lissa is not on any Scottish census after 1891, I think this maybe
her. any suggestions welcome. many thanks roe. :-\
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I can't find any trace of this child elsewhere, so it seems reasonably likely to be the one you're looking for. It is normal for there to be no surname listed on the certificate; there is no space for it. The surname is assumed to be that of the father if they are married and that of the mother if no father is listed; in cases where both parents are listed but they are not married it is indexed under both names.
I think some Queen Charlotte's Hospital records are at the LMA.
www.historicaldirectories.org shows a Mrs Cornish at 132 Alderney in 1895, and a George Lound Cornish there in 1882; this may have been the family she worked for (I would guess that George had passed away by 1895 and it was his wife there), or someone else may have moved in by then.
It was not uncommon for a woman working in a domestic, live-in position to lose her job or have problems finding a new one if she had a baby in tow and no husband; so there would have been very real pressures for Eliza to represent herself as "Mrs" (perhaps with a husband "away in New York") when looking for work.
The key is probably finding out when/how she got to the US and under what name!
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Also in 1920 is that "Eliza" now listed as "Katherine E", b. 1882 Scotland, wife of Charles? (Josephine is with them).
Actually http://www.ellisisland.org has her, I think, coming in as Katherine (trip home?)
1922, Katherine McK. Israel, aged 41 (listed as US citizen, "husband born US").
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Following up on Jorose's 1922 sighting, the ship was the Tuscania which left Glasgow on 13 October 1922.
I don't see any Israels on the UK outgoing manifest but there is a Cath McKay aged 41 whose last UK address was "Carloune (?) Elgin"
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The address given for Kath McK Israel on the US manifest for the Tuscania (Oct 23 1922) is the same as the 1920 census: 6941 Ridge Boulevard, Brooklyn ( enumerated in 1920 as Isreal)
Husband born NYC 3 April 1866
Kath's US passport number 212825
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Thankyou so very much jerose and shaunJ for all your input, searching, help and advice.
I think between us all we have solved the (Deddyhn???) mystery.
I agree there is no trace of this child any place else, so i`m presuming this is Lissa`s
child. It is as you suggested very likely that she pretended she was a Mrs Deddyhn
with her husband away to help her gain employment.
I had seen the 1920 census and had wondered if this Katherine E could in fact be Lissa
and like you i now feel it must be her.
I have just a few minutes ago found Josephine Israel age 17yrs on the Tuscania
in Oct 1922 with the same address 6941 Ridge Boulevard, leaving Glasgow Scot
and returning to New York. I think we can safely say Katherine E is definitely Elissa.
The Elgin link would also confirm this is Lissa as her sister MaryAnn lived in
Elgin at this time and she had many family members still in Scotland.
Thank you all for your help and if i do find anything else to substantiate our story
i will off course post it here. Roe.
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NO! NO! Roe..it can't be over!! ;D
Why did she change her name to Katherine?
What about the marriage announcement to Cecil Richard in 1903?
Friends in Baltimore?? All lies??? ???
What happened to Lissa's child?
Inquiring minds still want to know! ;)
I see a movie...a novel..something out of all of this!
It MUST continue!!
I need an ending here!!!
Thank you for a most interesting post and journey Roe!
Deborah
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Hi Deborah, Yes there is still a few unanswered questions to unlock
what happened to her child? Ive still to find the answer to that one.
the marriage announcement ,i think that was a fake for whatever
reason, she was married in New York just 5 months after that
announcement (to Charles). Maybe she was paving the way to
her new life in USA, who knows.
I'm going to try and find out what happened to the child next.
I`ll keep you posted , we might get a novel out of this yet lol.
Roe.