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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: jewelie on Thursday 24 February 11 23:38 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find any details about John George Saunders and Eliza Burn who were supposedly married in Nelson in 1842. He was born in the UK about 1821 but I have had no luck tracing Eliza. They may have had one child in NZ before moving to Australia by 1848. Would love any help or suggestions about tracing their migration to/from NZ (Eliza may have been born in NZ). Any records/ideas/hints/links would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Julie (Australia)
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Hi jewelie
Just for starters, can see a record of arrival in NZ.
SAUNDERS - John George
Occupation : Shoemaker
Age : 19
Status: Single
Arrived Nelson (NZ) per "Mary Ann" on 8 February 1842
Note says "paid passage" ? (May mean he paid his own fare to the colony ? )
Will look some more for you.
~ Lu
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Hi again Julie
Looks like this may be Eliza's arrival (indexed as "BURNS") ?
BURNS - Eliza
Age - 16
Occupation - Dressmaker
Status - single
Arrived at Nelson (NZ) per " Lord Auckland" - 23 February 1842
Related Passengers : (Not sure if that means "related to Eliza" .... or "related surnames" ??)
BURNS
-- Rebecca - 45 years - widowed
-- Daniel - 23
-- Robert - 18
-- Elenore - 10
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Still looking for you. ;)
~ Lu
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Link to Nelson Early Settlers database (source of previous info I gave you).
http://ww1.applications.nelsoncitycouncil.co.nz/early-settlers/
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Try this Library link - there may be further info available here ?
http://www.nelsoncitycouncil.co.nz/genealogy/
... on this site you'll also find "The Prow" (another heritage site for Nelson)
~ Lu
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Here's the whole family
Surname Forename Occupation "Age on Arrival" Ship "Arrival Date"
Burns Rebecca dressmaker 45 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns John joiner 27 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns Daniel baker & bricklayer 23 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns Frances wife 23 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns Robert tin man 18 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns Eliza dressmaker 16 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
Burns Elenore 10 Lord Auckland 23/02/1842
John B
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Wow .... how fantastic to get all that help. Thankyou so much! I shall now try to go forward from here and try to get marriage details and info about their move to Australia.
Cheers, Julie
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Ah ... here's a passenger list for the "Lord Auckland" which shows the "BURNS" as a family group. (I also see a John BURNS and wife Frances, who may be related ?)
Sadly, place (or county) of origin, not given. :(
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/LordAuckland.htm
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Hi Julie
I can't actually see a record of the marriage (on the resource I'm looking at) ?
That doesn't mean of course that there wasn't one, but 1842 is before the date of official registrations for NZ, so it may be that a church record (in Nelson), is all that's available. (Maybe make an enquiry re: church records, at one of the links I gave previously.) ;)
~ Lu
PS : I'm sure there's a webpage somewhere I've seen, with these early Nelson BMD's. Will try and find.
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Sorry ... not able to find the link I mentioned re: Nelson Church records - so do ask Nelson Library etc. what records they have. ;)
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Hi Julie
Our newspapers website, "PapersPast" is also (most often) very helpful regarding early records ... and Nelson is especially well-covered.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
Having said that, I can't see < at a glance > anything specific for John George SAUNDERS ... but you might like to explore papers, in more depth.
~ Lu
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1841 census
Wyatt St, Maidstone, Kent
Rebecca BURN, 45
Daniel BURN, 20
Robert BURN, 15, Brazier
Eliza BURN, 15
Eleanor BURN, 10
all born in county
HO107/490/3/Maidstone/Kent/ED7/28/3
If you look on Familysearch you will find all the baptisms at All Saints, Maidstone. Father was Daniel BURN.
Eliza baptised 15 Jan 1826.
Look under BURNS and BURN.
Ian C
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Passenger List - "Lord Auckland" to Nelson - 1842
It does seem surname BURNS is given in error for BURN ?
At PapersPast, there is death at Nelson in 1904 for a Daniel BURN, aged 85 years (bc 1819) ... and an article on persons applying for the NZ old age pension in 1899 showing a Daniel BURN - 79 - who'd been in NZ 56 years (arrived approx. 1843). Both seem to be a good match for the Daniel who arrived on the "Lord Auckland" with other BURNS family members.
~ Lu
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Wonder if this is John George SAUNDERS
St Leonards Shoredith, London baptism
1824 Jan 18, John George, s/o John & Mary SAUNDERS, New Inn Yard, Wool stapler, born 1823 Aug 22
Ian C
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Top marks, Ian ! :)
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From http://www.woodchurchancestry.org.uk/midkentmarriages/
Daniel BURN married Rebecca AVERY at All Saints Maidstone on 6 Feb 1811.
Some of the others there look to be Daniel and Rebecca's older daughters.
Ian C
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A possible from Familysearch for Rebecca
1793 Mar 17, Rebecca, d/o Edward & Elizabeth AVERY, born 1793 Feb 17
A Rebecca BURN died in NZ in 1884 aged 93, so fairly close. Her death certificate should be able to confirm or deny this.
Ian C
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A possible on Familysearch for Daniel, at All Saints Maidstone
Baptism - 1789 Feb 13, Daniel, s/o Samuel & Jane BURN
Burial - 1833 Nov 15, Daniel BURN, male
Ian C
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Wow .... how fantastic to get all that help. Thankyou so much! I shall now try to go forward from here and try to get marriage details and info about their move to Australia.
Cheers, Julie
Hi again Julie
Do you have Australian death certs. for John George & Eliza ?
Or maybe better still, a certificate for a child of theirs, who was born in Australia ?
Oz records generally give a lot more information.
Depending on where in Oz they died, you may get info regarding length of time spent in NZ; names of living and deceased children, an idea (not always accurate) of where born/parents names etc.
Further births to the couple registered in Australia, may show, ages of previous issue.
Incidentally, if you are lucky enough to find a church record for the Nelson marriage, it may only give minimal info (NZ marriages did not record birthplaces or names of bride/groom's parents, unitl late 1880) - though if Eliza was (as seems, under 21 years of age) the person giving her permission to wed, may be recorded.
~ Lu
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A Rebecca BURN died in NZ in 1884 aged 93, so fairly close. Her death certificate should be able to confirm or deny this.
Ian C
Mmm .. I'd just spotted that also. :D
And buried at Nelson.
http://www.nelsoncitycouncil.co.nz/cemeteries-database-2/
(Lots of other BURN burials there, including Daniel and Robert.)
~ Lu
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Might be worth posting a request on the Kent board about the BURN family, with a link back to this post, so as not to duplicate what has already been posted.
Ian C
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Other researchers of this BURN family (with NZ links). ;)
See World connect > >
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
~ Lu
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Thanks Eyesee and Lucy2 - you have been an amazing help!! I have started to look at The Prow website and it looks fascinating.
I don't have death info for John George or a cert for Eliza .
Eliza died in Adelaide (and John probably did too) and very few Sth Aust records are on line ... and I am in Qld!!! Their daughter Rebecca Eliza was my gt grandmother and I have her death details, but not the actual certificate (yet!!) She was born in Adelaide in 1848.
I am now able to connect to other Burn NZ researchers through ancestry, and have already found lots of info that may help.
I really appreciate your efforts. I have a busy weekend ahead of me!
My thoughts to all in NZ.
Cheers, Julie
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I am also a researcher who is descended from Daniel Burn and Rebecca Avery
Caroline
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The family of Eliza's brother Daniel Edward also went to Australia (Melbourne) and some of their children were born in Adelaide as well....
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Hi Caroline, and welcome to RootsChat. :)
As Jewelie, the original poster, has not been on RootsChat for some time I have sent them a Personal Message (PM) advising them that you have replied to their topic.
I removed your email address in accordance with RootsChat policy noted above, but included it in my PM to Jewelie.
I hope you receive a response soon.
Spades
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thankyou for the help - I have taken your advice :)
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;) 8)