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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Aeife on Wednesday 23 February 11 16:44 GMT (UK)
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Hi, folks.....I'm new to this forum, have hit the proverbial "brick wall" with my g.g.grandfather, James McArthur. He and Annabella McGilvray were married 13 Feb 1827, Kilchoman, Islay. I can find no birthplace for James....all I see on census is "Argyll", no locality. At time of marriage, he was from Kilchoman. Was employed at Islay House as ag lab in 1841, then family moved to Glasgow ( Govan, Gorbals). On his death certificate ( 1866-Hutchestown), his parents are listed as Duncan & Mary (Currie) McArthur. Can not find anything at all on them, either, and queries to Finlaggan Trust on Islay also zero. Can anyone help?
Thank you.
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Hello and welcome. You might be better getting this enquiry moved to the Scotland Board. In the meantime you could have a look at this web site. It is a pay site, but I think there might be some records there for you.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Madri
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Hi Aeife
Welcome also from me to RootsChat :)
The 1851 census for James and family in the Gorbals, Glasgow has him as being from Islay in Argyll, born c. 1806. If I have the right entry for 1861 with the family at 246 Thistte St, he is down as being from Avan, Argyll. This is from the transcript, so not sure what the original image may have in respect of 'Avan'. Birth year for 1861 also makes him older, born c. 1796.
Have you had a look at these two sites:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~steve/islay/data.htm
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tlarson/bdm/
If James was originally from Kilchoman in Islay, one of the problems you may be facing is that I don't think there are Old Parish Registers in existence before 1821. See listing here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyArgyll.htm#K
At least four of their children's births show in Kilchoman:
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tlarson/bdm/births/KilchomanBaptisms1821-1854.csv
Monica
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Thank you all for the warm welcome......
This character, James, has been a source of much frustration for me, being unable to find much of anything about him. I am officially retired, but still have to work, and am on limited income, so the Scotland's People option is out at the moment. Have perused Ted Larsen's site, and Russ McGillivray's excellent compilation of the McGillivrays on Islay, where I found the first info on James & Annabella.
Was hoping to come to Scotland this year with a friend of mine here in Florida, who is from Greenock, but that is looking bleak for this year. Maybe next year as some of my cousins are getting interested, and two of us tested for DNA, me being one, and was that a revelation!
This research, to me, is like attempting to learn Sanskrit! Don't seem to be very good at it, and I am now "obsessed" with finding the actual birthplace of James & his parents, so perhaps I can take it farther back.
As to "Avan", would have no idea what that is......
Have tried to trace another of James' daughters who was born in Glasgow....
Marion ( Mirron, Mina) b. 17 July 1845, married William Dinwoodie 29 July 1870, Govan, hoping to find descendants with information, but no luck there.
As for Duncan McArthur & Mary Currie....can find a "Donald" & Mary Currie on Islay, and a Duncan & Mary Currie in Dunoon, and that's it...can't pin them down.
Again, thank you for your help, and hopefully, someone out there will reply with some news.
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Hi Aeife.
I hope Monica wont blush when I say that she’s a real expert when it comes to finding relatives.
She and others helped me considerably concerning MY James McArthur..., son of Neil, Neil born in Tyree 1796. Concerning my original research for a Campbeltown-James McArthur who also had connections in Glasgow, Monica and other specialists put me on the right track.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,479337.0.html
Also, although my James will probably not interest you..., you may find this worth surfing:
http://www.kintyreforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10788&hilit=Flemings+land They also have a genealogical page.
Good luck..., Iain.
PS I’ll send you a private mail !
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Hi Aeife.
I have a friend who's husband is a distant McArthur relative, (Tyree / Campbeltown) and the "War and Peace" account below is absolutely typical of her passion and expertise. So the following is not my work !
Re James McArthur, reckon Avan is a transcription error. First thought was it might be Arran (Isle of) but that's generally in Ayrshire, or Bute. Nowhere near Islay.
1861
James McArthur 65
Ann McArthur 55
Ann McArthur 22
Mary McArthur 20
Mirion McArthur 14
Jemima Taylor 7
Notice the youngest child Mirion, (Marion) born c1847 Glasgow, and the 2nd youngest Mary born c1841 ?Avran?, so the family likely moved to Glasgow between 1841 & 1847.
James' occupation given as Dock Labourer, so he did not have a particlar trade, and possibly went where there was work.
Had a job finding them in 1851, but the 3 daughters ages and names helped.
In 1851 both James and Annabella have their birthplace as Islay. Archibald born Glasgow, c1843.
1851
20 Salisbury Place Gorbals
Household Members: Name Age
James Mcarthur 45 Labourer (iron Worker)
Aychella Mcarthur 41 (Annabella)
John Mcarthur 16
Ann Mcarthur 13
Mary Mcarthur 11
Archibald Mcarthur 8
Minas Mcarthur 6 (Marion)
An Ancestry member has written 2 notes for this 1851 census, re Aychella- Annabella
"DIKAYVAN - 22/07/2010 spouse of James McArthur..... real name- ANNABELLA McGilvray" and
"DIKAYVAN - 16/08/2010. First name should be ANNABELLA. This is my g.g.grandmother."
In 1841, the family are still on Islay- Bowmore Islay House Farm
James Mcarthur 30 Ag Lab
Anabella Mcarthur 25
John Mcarthur 4
Margaret Mcarthur 12
Isabella Mcarthur 8
Anne Mcarthur 3
Mary Mcarthur 1
Alexander Cameron 80
Janet Cameron 20
N K Cameron 8 MO
Wonder who the Camerons are? Grandfather perhaps? More than likely connected in some way.
I found a marriage for a Mary Curry to a Donald McArthur, not Duncan, on 11 Sep 1799 at Killarrow, Argyll. Killarrow is an Islay Parish. Who was the informant on the death extract? It would not be the 1st time an Informant gave incorrect details to the registrar.
Of course, James' birth may not have been recorded at all, many parishes didnt keep records till the early 1820's. Small Isles is one, Lismore another.
Annabella, d/o Archibald McGilvray & Catherine?. See 1841 Census Kildalton Port Ellen p8, Arch McGilvray 65, with a Catherine 60, she might be his sister not wife? Relationships not given in 1841. Catherine 22 and Marion 18. Note Duncan McGilvray below. Page 5 has a Donald McGilvray with son Archibald among his children.
Re birthplace given for James & Annabella. At first glance it might look like Avon, but comparing the rest of the handwriting on the page I dont think the last letter is an 'n'. The 'v' does not look right either, more like an 'i' followed by an 'r'. Maybe the enumerator misread the original household schedule, which might have been in another's handwriting. I suspect that possibly it refers to a township in Islay which is no longer in use. Examples of some little townships in Islay beginnng with A - Ardmo, Ardbeg, Ardnow, Ardnaw, Adel
Look at http://maps.nls.uk/counties/view/?id=222 map from 1732.
Or http://maps.nls.uk/joins/view/?rsid=74400197&sid=74400199&mid=581&pdesc=South%20West%20section from 1801.
Much of Islay placenames are Viking origin, so it would be easy to misread. Perhaps the 1792 Kintyre Census might help, there's a fair chance that Duncan McArthur might be listed at some wee township beginning with A. If his son James was born bef 1811 (if James married 1827 he would have to have been at least 16 then), then Duncan would most certainly be alive in 1792.
Look at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~steve/islay/cemetery/sur05.htm there is an Archibald McGilvra & Margaret McGilvra nee Campbell buried at Killarrow. Margaret died Jan 1809 aged 63.
Me here…, ;) ! Apparently, my James McArthur is not connected to yours…, pity, as I could have sent you a lot of info from Campbeltown and Tyree.
Hope your "brick wall" is now lowered a little.
I'll send you attachments. Have a nice day…, Iain.
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I'm related to Peter McArthur, son of Duncan McArthur and Jane/Janet Landale. Duncan appears to have married twice - second time to Marion Dick. Duncan was born in Glasgow in 1799. This family were coal miners,roadmen and labouers. They moved around the country: Glasgow; Stirlingshire; Clackmannan; Perthshire and Fife.
Ring any bells?
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Hello, Kiltie.....
Thank you for replying, but as you can see from previous posts, I am essentially at a standstill with my McArthurs. I have no idea where Duncan McArthur, father of MY James (don't know about him, either) might have originated. Only know that on James' death certificate, his parents were given as "Duncan McArthur" and "Mary Currie".
When I'm snowed in this coming winter, plan to get back to serious research, and hopefully, track down these individuals, but in the meantime, any hints or info will be appreciated.
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Hi,
A Donald Mcarthur married a Mary Currie on 11/09/1799, Killarrow, Argyll
Possible children of Mary Currie & Donald Mcarthur were:
Janet Mcarthur baptised 09/07/1800. Killarrow, Argyll
Archibald Macarthur baptised 20/05/1802,
Mary Mcarthur baptised 30/05/1805, Killarrow, Argyll
Nancy Mcarthur baptised 01/07/1807, Killarrow, Argyll
Malcom Mcarthur baptised 07/02/1809, Killarrow, Argyll
Katherine Mcarthur baptised 20/07/1809, Killarrow, Argyll (Currie spelt Curry)
Marrion Mcarthur baptised 01/08/1814, Killarrow, Argyll
No James though.
Sharon
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Hello, Sharon.....
I had also looked at this couple, thinking maybe that James' father's name may have been Donald Duncan McArthur, but guess that's not the answer, as you found their children, which I hadn't seen, and no "James". On only 1 census (either 1851, or 1861) the birthplace of James is given as Islay, on all others, it's Argyll. Roger McWee of Islay could not find the family, either.
Any suggestions you may have, will be gratefully followed. I managed to find a cousin in Scotland, descendant of Annabella's sister, who informed me where James & Annabella are buried in the necropolis, Glasgow, and he said there may be others in the lair, as well. Don't know if there are records there that might give the birthplaces of the deceased. He also told me that he went to the Mitchell library and had a look at the various censuses, but no distinct birthplace.
Thank you for your reply......
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Hello all.....
I have recently moved to another state, and just now getting back to the research on James McArthur.
Wondering if the "Avan" on the census as his birthplace could possibly refer to either Avinlussa or Avinvogie, both on Islay, altho I don't think these names are much in use today. I DO know that McArthurs were in both places, still can find no reference to James or his parents. Have looked at tenant lists, and there were Duncan McArthurs at Cruach, Lower Leorin, Port Ellin (spelling on list), and Tormisdale.
Any thoughts from anyone on what I might look for from here? And I want to thank all who have replied thus far.
Of course, I realise that James & his parents may not have been from Islay originally, but blast me if I can find anything about anything!
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Hi
I've just registered on this site and came across your post.
I'm also researching McArthur/McGilvray.
My g grandfather was Donald McArthur, born Oa, Islay, Argyllshire. He married Margaret McGilvray in Glasgow on 1st June 1894.
Maggie, as she was known, was the daughter of Charles and Jean McGilvray (nee Gillies) They were married in Portnahaven, Islay, Argyllshire on 11th December 1856.
I notice in your post that you mention the McArthur family moving from Islay to Gorbals district of Glasgow.
My father (Donald McArthur) and all of his siblings were born in the Gorbals between 1920 and 1938.
I wonder if there may be some common ground here?
It would be good to compare notes.
Morag Richardson (nee McArthur)
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Hello.....
I'm sorry to be late in responding to your post, but I haven't checked this site lately.
I imagine you will have seen the excellent Rootsweb compilation of the MacGillivrays of Islay, by Russ MAcGillivray, so my McGilvrays are covered pretty well....it's the McArthur lineage I'm having the problems with. Have tried Scotlands People to no avail, so am still in the dark there. Can not find parents of James McArthur, either...births, marriages, etc.
Would love to collaborate with you on any information, but have to say that I'm, by this point, not too optimistic!
Thank you for your reply.
Diana
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Aeife..., Hi !
I don’t have the time to read all the past messages, but I have found this. (done in a hurry so I stand to be corrected by the others)
Annabella McGilvray McArthur. Abt1807, 1871 census at Govan and died 1878 Hutchesontown, Glasgow.
Children Mary 1840 – 1891... Marrion 1848 John 1839 Ann 1838 Archibald 1843 Minas 1845.
Her parents Archibald McGilvray 1776 – 4th May 1859 Margaret McInnes Abt 1772-
Paternal Grandparents Alexander McGilvray and Marion McTaggart.
James McArthur Dec. 1805 – 1st June 1866
His parents Duncan McArthur 1800 - and Mary Currie.
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Mary McArthur 1840 – 26th April 1891 at Old Machar, Aberdeenshire. Marriage 13th of November 1863 at Blythswood to James Stewart 1837- 1899.
She has one child Mary Stewart 1885 – 30th November 1954..., this Mary has Ronald/Stewart/ Williamina Elsie/Eric/Ronald as children with Samuel George Munro. 1886-1954.
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Williamina Elsie Munro born Aberdeen 9 June 1904 - died 27 July1990 in Lexington, Kentucky, USA. Left Glasgow 27 Aug 1915 (RMS Cameronia) and arrived in the US new York 7 Sep 1915.
Her husband... Kendal Reid Guinn, 16 June 1913 Clinton Country died 1953 new Orleans.
Two children... private:
James: From the 1851 census..., it’s changed a little since ! ;)
20, Salisbury Place, Gorbals, Glasgow. (occupation... iron worker)
http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=20+Salisbury+Place,+Gorbals,+Glasgow,+United+Kingdom&hl=fr&ll=55.848349,-4.256945&spn=0.006951,0.022724&sll=55.777719,-4.142404&sspn=0.007386,0.006845&hnear=Salisbury+St,+Royaume-Uni&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.848442,-4.256901&panoid=IcFUSUdeHnZ9RkSk9n8mgw&cbp=12,177.96,,0,-0.93
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Hello, Iain.....
Hope all has been well with you since last we "talked".
You have found a wealth of information, it seems, and I want you to know that I sprung for Scotlands People, and can find nothing on James McArthur OR Duncan & Mary Currie that I can pin down.
See you found my mother, Williamina Elsie (she hated that name!) Munro. Lately, I've been trying to find more on the Munros, as I was absolutely disgusted with the lack of anything concrete with McArthurs, and figured I'd let them slide for a while, but at any mention of the name, I'm all eyes!
Good to hear from you, and hope your own searches are proving to be fruitful.
Thank you for this latest information.
Aeife
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Hi Aelfi !
I have this on the “Munro” family.
Samuel George Munro: 23rd of October 1886, Aberdeen, Scotland. Died 16th of October 1954... Lexington, Kentucky, USA.
Wife Mary Stewart..., 1885 – 1954.
Samuel's parents:
Alexander Munro..., Rothiemay, Banff, Aberdeenshire born on the 14th of November 1840 -
Isabella Adam, parish of Echt, the 10th of June 1846 – died on the 26th June 1914 in Aberdeen.
Alexander’s parents..., no info.
Isabella’s parents:
John Adam, born Monymusk, Aberdeenshire 1804.
Barbara Lyon, 1811.
Marriage to Barbara the 8th of May, 1841. (as seen on the 41 – 61 census reports)
Their children...
John, 1833 / Mary, 1835 / Barbra, 1839 / Helen, 1841 / Sophia, 1843 / Isabella, 1846 – 1914 / James, 1848 / George, 1850.
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Hi, Iain....
Looks like you've been busy again, and coincidentally, I got a message from a Munro I had contacted from a 2004 post of his I happened on, and thought was worth a try....turns out, we ARE related....his gg grandfather was brother to mine, and enabled me to go back another generation with the Munros. Says he has more info, and I hope it's back further.
You said you got the info from a U.S. tree, and am wondering if it's mine (Guinn family), as have not seen any others with these particular folks. I have not updated the tree in quite some time, so need to get on it, it seems!
Thank you for your help and interest, as I am finding out more from individual people like yourself & others than I am fumbingly able to, from professional sites. Wish the McArthurs would fall in line, accordingly!
With much graditude, Aeife
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Just adding link to new post if anyone can help further www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,651911.0.html
Monica