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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Sophie30 on Wednesday 23 February 11 14:32 GMT (UK)
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I went to a really interesting talk last night at my local historical society on the history of lace. Although I love crafts and embroidery I knew nothing about lace making. It got me thinking, as I understand lace was predominantly made by the poor to supplement their meagre incomes (and sadly in most cases lace dealers made more from the craft than the talented lacemakers) - my ancestors were all poor agricultural labourers - I wonder if any of them made lace?
Would love to hear from anyone who happened across a lacemaker in their family?!
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Hi Sophie,
Yes got a couple, Dean Street Holborn - father (1794) and then son - lace maker's & weavers
KR Angie
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Hi Angie
Excellent! So they weren't living in Bedfordshire then? Apparently that was an area famous for lace. How fabulous! I would love to come across a lace making ancestor.
Sophie
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I have some lace-making ancestors - Morgans from Nottingham - though I think they were also framework knitters/stockingers/cordwainers/glovers, depending on the individual and the year. Because many people doing research first come across occupation information from the census returns, a lot could be hidden. Women and children are often given as "wife" and "scholar" (or even nothing), where in fact they also worked. If your female ancestors aren't listed as having an occupation of their own on the census, look around the local area to see what adult unmarried women were doing. It's a reasonable assumption that in a working-class household the women were economically active to some degree. Of course it isn't proof that they were X or Y, but it can act as a hint.
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On an episode of Larkrise poor Queenie was bemoaning the fact that she couldn't sell her handmade lace because of the new machine made stuff !!
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Mine guys were 'coach lace makers & weavers' I expect their wife's were too, but like eminie said, there is no record of their occupations. I expect it was hard work for very little reward
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I saw that particular episode and apparently by lace makers in the know the BBC didn't quite get their research right. The lace shown was not of the type she was referring to! Tut tut! Of course to non lace experts we wouldn't have known otherwise. Nottingham is another area apparently famous for it's lace as is Honiton, Devon. I believe Queen Victoria commissioned Honiton lace makers to make the lace for her wedding veil to help the cottage industry and keep it alive at at a time when the advent of machines effectively ruined the hand made lace industry. I guess it was a good thing that lace became cheaper and therefore accessible to all, notjust the wealthy but it of course drove the price down and highly skilled and talented lace makers suffered. It became a dying art. It's interesting that the poor made lace when it was usually more affluent ladies who became accomplished in needlework and needlepoint. I always thought lace would have come under this category and therefore made by the historical version of ladies that lunch! You were a nobody in the Tudor, Georgian, Victorian eras if you were not an accomplished needleworker so I was fascinated to learn that in fact the wives of poor agricultural labourers etc made these beautiful designs. Children were even sent to Lace school in some areas to learn from a young age the craft (not for their own development and security imight add - they were often exploited and mistreated). With family in the Staffordshire area and nearly all poor working class agricultural labourers I hope that maybe I had an accomplished lace maker in the family, although darn that lack of equality or whatever it was which meant a women's contribution to the household income was not recorded! I guess it simply wasn't important enough to mention. :-)
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An old neighbour of mine died aged 104 in 2004. She'd been a lacemaker in Nottinghamshire in the interwar years. Fascinating lady.
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That's quite some age! Goodness I bet she was really interesting. What a shame she isn't still with us. Let's hope she passed some samples or lace items on to her family for generations to come to appreciate.
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Quite a few of the wives and daughters of my ag lab ancestors in Huntingdonshire were lace makers, but Nottingham is one of the best-known lace-making places.
From the other side of my family we have an antique wedding veil of Brussels lace (very popular in Victorian times) which has served quite a few of our brides over the past couple of hundred years. Both my cousin and I let the side down, however, because we wanted something modern! :o
Gillg
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I tried lacemaking a few years ago and despite being an experienced knitter and moderately good at crochet, I just couldn't get the hang of lacemaking. I think experienced lacemakers work without patterns, but I didn't get that far and couldn't even understand the patterns, which are not written in words, as knitting and crochet patterns are, but in patterns (at least the ones I was supposed to work with)
Lacemaking isn't cheap to take up either, it's not just a matter of a couple of knitting needles or crochet hooks, so I don't know how our poor ancestors did it.
Lizzie
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I know they got sore fingers from the bobbins and damaged their eyesight through peering at the intricate patterns in poor light. Apparently Brussels lace makers worked in a damp room to keep the fine threads from drying out and virtually in the dark apart from a ray of light shining onto the lace pillow.
Gillg
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I have some wives of Ag Labs who were lace makers here in Bucks, we used to make Pillow Lace and apparently it is where Kat stitch was invented (what ever that is) ( I will need to check a book at home for that one though)
Here is a Silk Manufactory - a branch of those at Aylesbury and Waddesdon - at which about 30 females are employed. The other female villagers make straw plait and pillow lace. Bricks and tiles are manufactured here on an extensive scale. A weekly Market at Whitchurch was granted in 1245, together with a Fair on the festival of St. John the Evangelist."
[History and Topography of Buckinghamshire, by James Joseph Sheahan, 1862]
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No ancestors who were Lacemakers but there are quite a few of us making it today as a hobby of course !
There are "groups" all over the country,the Lace Guild has a website if you are interested in having a go !!
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I'm with Lizzie on this one! As a keen embroiderer I was tempted to have a go until I saw the patterns and the process. My goodness - talk about complicated! I just couldn't get my head around the concept of how that jumble of bobbins and thread even begins to resemble the complicated patterns that are used. As creative as I am (I will have a go at most things arty/crafty) I just dont think I would have the patience for lace making :-)
P.S Shame on you Gillg :o :)
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I've got a 4 x gt grandfather who was a lace maker in Nottingham
- Joseph Skidmore (1809-1875).
His granddaugher, Emma Dicks, was known apparently as fine needlewoman, who kept her linens spotless and made lace for Queen Victoria - no proof of course ::).
Luzzu
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Thats quite a claim to fame! :)
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I know they got sore fingers from the bobbins
You get sore fingers from pressing pins through the card with the pattern on it and into a fairly solid pillow!
I did bobbin lacemaking a few years ago as a hobby and have a friend aged 88 who makes yards of the stuff.
It's not actually as complicated as it looks - at any given time you are only using a few (4-6) of the dozens of bobbins that are on a pillow, and there is a lot of repetition of the pattern. It is, however, very time consuming - especially for the finer laces like Honiton.
It tends to suit people who have a 'mathematical' brain and can follow charts rather than words. If you can do cross stitch you can probably do lacemaking :)
virtually in the dark apart from a ray of light shining onto the lace pillow.
There were various lacemaker's lamps, filled with water, that focussed the light - but it must still have been very difficult. See
http://lace.lacefairy.com/Lace/Gallery/LaceLamps.html
Linda
PS If you want to have a go, find a good teacher. It's almost impossible to learn from a book :o
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Thats quite a claim to fame! :)
Would be if I could prove it :D.
Luzzu
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Sophie reply #14
I should add that my daughter also refused to wear the family veil, saying it looked "creepy" - I think she was thinking of shrouds! Shame really, as my mother, aunt and great aunt look fantastic in the photos. They each did something different with it. We're not quite sure how old it is or who was the first bride to wear it.
danuslave #17
You can tell how much I know about it! :-[
Gillg
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danuslave #17
You can tell how much I know about it! :-[
But you're learning fast :)
Linda
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Some of my ancestors from North Crawley, Buckinghamshire circa 1850 to 1860 were Lacemakers.
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I'm with Lizzie on this one! As a keen embroiderer I was tempted to have a go until I saw the patterns and the process. My goodness - talk about complicated!
As danuslave has said, once you have understood the concept of following the pattern, which is drawn onto a piece of card and pinned onto the pillow, it really isn't that complicated. I was taught bobbin lace making by my grandmother, and once I had understood the basic process didn't find it too difficult, and (for myself) much easier than knitting.
I have much of my grandmother's lace, including one piece, which I remember watching her make with, I think, 32 pairs of bobbins (the bobbins are always worked in pairs)
Lacemaking isn't cheap to take up either, it's not just a matter of a couple of knitting needles or crochet hooks, so I don't know how our poor ancestors did it.
It isn't cheap to take up now, particularly if you want to buy antique bobbins (I am fortunate to have inherited a large collection) but our ancestors would just have used scraps of wood and bone mostly to make their bobbins. Horsehair would have been used to stuff the pillows.
There is a picture of one of my bobbins (with an interesting story behind it!) here - read reply #21, then go down to #23
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,457918.msg3191471.html#msg3191471
Jennifer
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I'm with Lizzie on this one! As a keen embroiderer I was tempted to have a go until I saw the patterns and the process. My goodness - talk about complicated! I just couldn't get my head around the concept of how that jumble of bobbins and thread even begins to resemble the complicated patterns that are used. As creative as I am (I will have a go at most things arty/crafty) I just dont think I would have the patience for lace making :-)
P.S Shame on you Gillg :o :)
Sophie - And not being sensible enough to have a go first, as I worked with the lacemaking teacher (she did it part time at evening class), I went out and bought all the bobbins etc. that she told me I needed. They got pushed into the back of a cupboard and eventually when we moved, I just threw the whole lot into the bin!!
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LizzieW - I can hear the long 'noooooooooooooooo' as everybody reels in horror that you binned your bobbins.
Jennifer - that is truly gruesome.......but fascinating. So someone must have owned that commemorative bobbin - perhaps someone who knew the poor Sarah Marshall or the terrible Mr Bull.
Did you inherit that particular bobbin?
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Jennifer - that is truly gruesome.......but fascinating. So someone must have owned that commemorative bobbin - perhaps someone who knew the poor Sarah Marshall or the terrible Mr Bull.
Did you inherit that particular bobbin?
'Hanging' bobbins were made in considerable numbers, so it wasn't necessarily originally owned by someone who knew either the victim or perpetrator - just someone who happened to be at the hanging and bought a 'commemorative' :o bobbin.
No, I didn't inherit that one - many years ago my father was able to buy a very old lace pillow complete with an unfinished piece of lace on it with all the bobbins still attached - one of them being the William Bull bobbin. I have quite a few others with names on them.
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Well I guess its more of a talking piece than a commerative tea towel or something. Goodness - I guess there really was an entertainment factor in public hangings - they did merchandise! its a wonder they didn't do a programme? maybe a supporting act? with icecreams in the interval. Heavens I'm glad I wasn't born in victorian times or before - I'd have flaked out I think! in fact I would have been to busy rooting around in my skirt pockets for my smelling salts I wouldn't have found time to buy a commerative bobbin!
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When I was lacemaking we had a local woodturner who made bobbins for sale but his son, who was only 16 or 17 at the time, made some amazing ones - real works of art. Even though I've given up lacemaking, I've kept most of the bobbins because they are so beautiful (and the others went to a good home!)
Linda
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The 1851 Census shows my 4 x g. grandfather John BRANSOM aged 45, wife Mary aged 41 and 6 children living in Newton Blossomville, Bucks. Ref: HO 107 1723. It's interesting to me that all the women on the page are Lacemakers (except Mary, my ancestor) and all the men are Ag Labs. The Occupation box is left blank for Mary :(
Maybe Mary was not interested in Lacemaking, not skilled enough or whatever. Or maybe she had her hands full housekeeping for a family of 8! It does bug me that the Occupation box on the Census is left blank for so many women when they were clearly extremely occupied in what was essentially unpaid, unrecognised work. I'll wager those women Lacemakers listed were also Housekeepers too!
PS though I admire and respect those Lacemakers for their skills, I wouldn't have the patience, it would drive me nuts! Maybe I take after Mary? ::)
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My 3rd Great Grandmother Mary Ann Hewlett (married name ASHTON) and 5th Great Grandmother Mary Misseldine (married name Smith) were Lacemakers from Odell, Bedfordshire.
Judging by the census data I have seen, it was a widespread occupation in this north Bedfordshire village.
Phil
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I've got some Nottingham lacemakers in my tree. I also have a collection of antique scraps of lace which I picked up in junk shops for pennies years ago.
There was also a small lacemaking contingent in Leicester - a brother-in-law of my 4gt-grandmother was a lacehand in Leicester - and a connection through lacemaking between Leicester (and maybe Nottingham, I don't know) and Calais. Entrepreneurs who set up lacemaking factories in Calais used English lacemakers - there was quite a little English enclave there, I think.
Many years ago I watched an elderly lady making bobbin lace and how her fingers flew! She was in her 80's, if I recall, but the really interesting aspect was that she had a neurological disability (? cerebral palsy) and all her life, her wrists had been bent forward so that she could not straighten them - they were at about 90 degrees to her forearm. Despite this she could hold the bobbins between her fingers and make this beautiful lace by hand.
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Many Nottingham lace workers migrated to calais.
There are several references in Felkins History of Machine wrought Hosiery and Lace Manufature (not light reading but fascinating stuff)
This is an extract of such
There were stated to be between 1600 and 2000 bobbin net frames in France, of which 650 were in Calais....The framework or carcase of the Calais machines were made there but many of the insides of the machines were obtained from Nottingham. They were worked entirely by men who earned from 14s to 16s a week by 2 shifts of 6 hrs daily. Women winders gained 7s 3d to 9s 6d and children 2s 4d to 6s 4d weekly. Each machine gave employment to 12 persons in all.
Phil
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Bumping an old thread but having discovered one of my ancestors was amongst the Leicester Lacemakers who went to Calais I have to wonder what their life was like there - was it a little English enclave where they stayed within their own community or did they mix into French society, working and living side by side with the French - speaking the language etc as well
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My grandmother was a lacemaker, as was her mother and many of the female relatives - they came from Bucks. I have her bobbins and quite a bit of her hand made lace. Would like to have a go some time but the local courses are on a day I can't make at the moment.
Her daughters became dressmakers and at least two of the sons were handy with knitting needles and sewing machines, strange the things that pass down families.
I also have London silk weavers on the other side tree.
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What was your ancestor's name, Iolaus?
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James Cherry - he died in Calais in 1838, born Great Wigston in 1791
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Many of my female ancestors in East Devon were makers of Honiton Lace, which was used on Queen Victoria's wedding dress & the royal Christening robe. The cottages were small & dark so on dry days they probably worked outside in the light like these ladies.
(http://www.oldukphotos.com/graphics/England%20Photos/Devon,%20Honiton%20Lace%20Worker%20-%20old%20lady.jpg) (http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2206/2157315383_27685ecff4_z.jpg?zz=1)
(http://www.vintageroyalwedding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/victoria-wedding-gown.jpg)
(http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2013921/rs_560x415-131021175104-1024.2gown.cm.102113_copy_2.jpg)
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Hi, I also have lace makers in my family. Mine were from Branscombe and Honiton in Devon and apparently one of them made the lace for Queen Mary's wedding dress. My Grandmother on that side of the family was a dressmaker and my sisters I'm sure have said they remember her making lace to trim their dresses in the 1950's (before my time, I was something of an afterthought!!)
Gaynor x