RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: em NSW on Sunday 20 February 11 22:51 GMT (UK)
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I have come to a dead-end with this relative of mine.
Here is what I know about Annie Frances Lacey.
She was born 27 Nov 1890 in Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, India (familysearch.org), daughter of Henry James Lacey.
She married 20 Nov 1918 Robert Young (a New Zealand soldier aged 39 years) in Torquay.
Robert Young died 12 July 1926. He had been living at 114 Newton Rd Auckland. He had two sons, 6 & 5 years, and he was recorded as having been living in NZ 6 years
1926 Wises Directory Robt Young Meola Rd
1931 Electoral Roll Mrs Annie Young "Homeleigh" Meola Rd Pt Chevalier.
I think she is likely to have returned to England, and there is a death in 1943 which might be her, and which I have requested a certificate for.
What I am hoping for is the names of her sons (are there school records that might assist me here?), and when she arrived in and left NZ (if indeed she did leave). I cannot find any potential death or remarriage in NZ.
Thanks for any help you might be able to provide,
Emily
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I should add that I once discovered the registration in the UK of an Annie Lacey death. By some huge coincidence her date of birth was also 27 Nov 1890, but the death certificate showed that Lacey was her married name, and there were other discrepancies which rule her out.
Emily
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Hi Emily and welcome,
Here is a link to the cenotaph entry for Robert
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0byk/
Cheers Janette
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Thank you Janette. One problem with Annie is that Young is such a common name. I have been down many false paths trying to track her, and her sons, down. So every piece of information helps.
Emily
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Hi Emily,
do you know where Robert is buried?
Cheers Janette
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Janette, I think he is buried at Hillsborough cemetery.
Emily
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I think he is buried at Hillsborough cemetery.
You can confirm his burial details here
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/cemeteries/cemetery.html
John B
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Hi Emily
Sorry, can't help you with school records.
There is a possibility that the names of the sons may have been mentioned in a funeral or death notice for Robert (I say "possibility", because many early death notices in NZ, tended only to include the spouse's name.) I can check if you'd like - let me know. ;)
~ Lu
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Hi Lu
That would be very kind of you. I am beginning to resign myself to having to wait 10 years until the birth records are available online (assuming that the younger son was born in NZ). My next step will be to look at land transfer records for Meola Rd. Unfortunately the numbering of Meola Rd seems to have changed at some time since 1930, so everything about Annie is proving to be a difficult.
Emily
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Will do - within next few days.
Do you have access to findmypast ?
Spotted (on index) an "A.F. YOUNG - travelling Plymouth, UK to Auckland in 1919." Drat ... there's no Y.o.B. or sex, shown. Full record though may have more info ? (Often these brides of soldiers, travelled in groups, to their "new" home of New Zealand.)
~ Lu
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Hello Emily
PM x 4 sent
Regards
Beg
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Hi Emily
Was only able to find the one notice for Robert - alas, it didn't mention his children at all. :(
YOUNG - On 12 July (1926) at Auckland, Robert, dearly beloved husband of Annie Frances YOUNG, aged 46 years.
Funeral will leave the premises of A. Holmes, Undertaker, Abbotsford Street and Khyber Pass Road, Newmarket at 3pm today, Tuesday, for Hillsborough Cemetery.
[Source: "NZ Herald" - Tuesday, 13 July 1926 ]
"NZ Herald" & "Auckland Star" also checked for In Memorium notices - 1927 & 1928 .... sorry, nothing to be had.
~ Lu
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Hello Emily....For what it's worth, I tried to contact the person responsible for the Lacey family tree hosted on ancestry.com but for the life of me I'm unable to get past the "give us your credit card details" page.
If it's allowed (Spades?) you may want to post a request on the board for a subscriber to ancestry.com to pass on your contact details to "Waihue".
Or you may simply wish to join ancestry.com
The Army Service record Spades requested for you has been digitised and is available for download at Archives NZ. Surprisingly it confirms my guesswork. But doesn't mention the children.
If ancestry.com doesn't work out you can still try contacting the (guesswork) g-g-nephew.
Good luck
Regards
Beg
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Thank you very much Lu and Beg. You have gone to a lot of effort for a newbie. I will try to make sense of all of the information you have provided. The state library has a subscription to ancestry so I will try to contact the subscriber you mention.
Would Holmes the Undertaker have records available in NZ?
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Hi Emily,
Unfortunately Holmes the Undertaker is long gone,I may be able to get more info from the cemetery office,
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette,
emily
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Hello Emily....If by State Library you mean the NSW State Library then their website says they have the Ancestry Library Edition. Maybe someone else knows for certain but I'm not sure if the Library Edition can access the "Family Trees" option. It allows you to start a family tree but doesn't allow you to view already created trees. That's for paid-up members only.
Hopefully I'm wrong but there's something nagging at me about the Library Edition and Family Trees which I can't quite remember. I just thought I'd mention it.
If you do manage to access the Lacey family tree all well and good. But if you keep finding yourself re-directed to the "give us your credit card details" page then it's not your fault :-)
And, as an aside, if you do decide to give them your credit card details for the "free" 14 day trial just remember that you're on a public computer in a public library. Zero security.
Regards
Beg
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I can confirm that 'family trees' are not available on the Library version of A**.com at our local Library here in Takaka.
But if you were going to try the 14 day free trial, wouldn't you do it on your own computer at home?
And I cannot see the free trial option now for Oz version with all our electoral roll data :(
John B
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Just an update on this thread. Spades very kindly ordered the digitization of Robert Young's military record and very impressively, the file is now available online (http://www.archives.govt.nz/digitalarchive/archives:35046).
This has provided a lot of information - some I had, but some is new eg he lived in 'Homeleigh' in Gt South Rd, Papakura (the same house name his widow, and my relative, Annie Lacey is recorded as living in in Meola Rd). Unfortunately the names of his two sons are not recorded.
It does, however, refer to a will. The will is not indexed (as far as I can see) on archway. Is it possible that a will still exists (at Archives NZ) but is not indexed?
Thanks again for everybody's interest and kindness in assisting me.
emily
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Hi Emily,
Here is the info from Hillsborough cemetery
BURIAL IN Hillsborough Cemetery
Deceased: YOUNG, Robert
Place of Death: Auckland Infirmary, Epsom
Occupation: Boot Clicker
Gender: Male
Date of Death: 12/07/1926
Place of Birth: Scotland
Age: 46
Date of Burial: 13/07/1926 Tuesday
Plot Location: Area 1 Block A Plot 629
Burial Depth: Extra Depth
Burial Right No.: 303
Funeral Director: A. Holmes
Register Entry No.: 1914
Cause of death: Pulmonary Tuberculosis
Where deceased last came from: Scotland
Years in province: 43
Officiating clergy: Rev Hobday
Cheers Janette
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Hi Emily
the plot was purchased on 14th July 1926 by Mrs. A. F. Young of 124 Newton Road, Auckland.
There is no one else buried with him.
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette
Everything is pointing to Annie having returned to England. I do hope I can track down Robert's will, as it may have her son's names on it.
emily
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It does, however, refer to a will. The will is not indexed (as far as I can see) on archway. Is it possible that a will still exists (at Archives NZ) but is not indexed?
emily
Hello Emily....more than happy to be proven wrong but as I read it Robert wrote the will mentioned in the digitised record on 7 Dec 1917, before the children you mentioned were born.
He completed his army issue XFQ-1 Will on Friday 7 Dec 1917, went into battle on the following Tuesday, and was wounded in action the following Monday. Fortunately for him the army had set up sixteen hospitals in Étaples, the area over which they were fighting. Robert's war lasted for seven days. Four days later he was in Fulham Hospital, London.
As was standard for a wounded soldier his will was then dispatched from the Records Office in Rouen, France to (I'm guessing) Base Records, Wellington NZ. This is how I read the annotation in red on page two of the file.
After the war Base Records returned the will to Robert, which he acknowledged on 7 May 1920. This is mentioned on page 14 of the file.
Whether or not Base Records kept a record of the Will is unknown. It's not mentioned in Archives NZ.
Robert had the Will in May 1920. What he did with it is anyone's guess.
As I said, more than happy to be proven wrong :-)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Emily,
Losts of probates held by Archives NZ remain unindexed and don't appear on Archway.
I think you should ask someone to look for Robert YOUNG's probate at Archives NZ's Auckland office - the archivist staff will help.
Spades
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I think she is likely to have returned to England, and there is a death in 1943 which might be her, and which I have requested a certificate for.
Hello again Emily....more unasked-for advice :-) and I'm possibly jumping the gun too.
If the 1943 Brentford death doesn't pan out (although the deceased's age seems to fit) you could always have a look on the "National Burial Index for England and Wales - 1538 to 2008" CD when you visit the NSW State Library. Somewhere between thirteen and eighteen million records, depending on which edition the library holds. (The State Library website says 2nd edition which means *only* thirteen million records)
If you're interested here's a blurb about the Index...
http://www.ffhs.org.uk/projects/nbi/nbi-v3.php
Unfortunately it's only accesible within the State Library, not via their website.
If you can't make it to the State Library you can always post a request here and hopefully one of the Wellington rootschatters visiting our National Library can check on the CD held there. It's the 3rd edition so there's the extra five million records.
Or you can just pay your money to findmypast.co.uk who have the 2nd edition on their website.
But fingers crossed the 1943 death record you've ordered answers all of your questions, which will make this post redundant.
Regards
Beg
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... you could always have a look on the "National Burial Index for England and Wales - 1538 to 2008" CD )
If you can't make it to the State Library you can always post a request here and hopefully one of the Wellington rootschatters visiting our National Library can check on the CD held there. It's the 3rd edition so there's the extra five million records.
Or you can just pay your money to findmypast.co.uk who have the 2nd edition on their website.
Regards
Beg
Hi Emily
Above CD is available in the family history section of many libraries here in NZ (and I'd expect it would be the same in OZ) ... so maybe check the online catalogue at your local library / libraries, first. :)
~ Lu
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Hi Emily
Above CD is available in the family history section of many libraries here in NZ (and I'd expect it would be the same in OZ) ... so maybe check the online catalogue at your local library / libraries, first. :)
~ Lu
Hello Lucy....
I actually checked the on-line library catalogues for New Zealand (http://nzlc.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&Search_Arg=National+Burial+Index+for+England+and+Wales&SL=None&Search_Code=GKEY^*&CNT=25&HIST=1) and Australia (http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/18031312?q=National+Burial+Index+for+England+and+Wales&c=book#versions=) before suggesting the NLNZ because, surprisingly, the NLNZ is the only one I noticed which specifies the third edition. May (or may not) make a difference.
Regards
Beg
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HI
Just another update. The NSW State Library only has the second edition of the discs, and she was not on it. I think even the third edition may not help as the Ealing cemetery (I think the most likely for the 1943 death) is not indexed. I will update this thread when I receive the certificate. Thanks for all the assistance.
emily
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Hi Emily,
there is an email for Ealing cemeteries,why not contact them
http://www2.ealing.gov.uk/services/community/births_deaths_marriages/deaths/cemeteries.html
Cheers Janette
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I have two names: Robert Ray Young born (1919)
Keith Athol Young born (1921)
Source = request for Hospital Charitable aid Jan 5 1926 as father, Robert, in hospital.
I think they must have returned to England too as I can find no trace in NZ.
(I am related through oldest brother of Robert, John Young)
Have possible: Keith Athol Young married Annie F Bentley/Wood in Worksop Nottinghamshire 1948.
Died 1980 Worksop Nottinghamshire.