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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Maxclo on Sunday 20 February 11 09:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Sunday 20 February 11 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hi there, the attached is of an ancestor taken with others and can only think that it would be around the Waimate/Waiho Forks/Timaru, as he spent most of his life there.  I assume is First World War, but as the ancestor was about approx.45 at that time, it wouldn't be enlisting to fight one would presume.  Could it be some sort of 'Dad's Army" type unit perhaps?  The other thought it was the Boer War, but looks too late a photo for that  and again, he would have been about 30. 
Thanks for any ideas or places as to where I can follow up. 
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: spades on Sunday 20 February 11 09:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxclo,

It certainly seems to be WWI or just after.

Although not clear on the photo and seen close up, the collar badges might just be the 'flaming grenade' of the Royal Artillery and the Royal NZ Artilllery (I don't know when they gained the 'Royal' honorific, sorry).

Might he have been a training cadre, perhaps?

Have you looked for him on Archway to see if they hold a personnel file?

Spades

Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: aniph on Sunday 20 February 11 09:59 GMT (UK)
Hi

There is a museum in Waimate, they may be worth contacting.

It looks like a private email address so I won't post it here. Google "Waimate Museum" and you will find it ;)

Annie
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Sunday 20 February 11 10:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Spades,

Thanks for your reply.  I don't know as I was thinking if Waimate area...hardly a place that was in danger of being under siege anyhow!..if artillery, would they not be photographed with guns perhaps.  I have done searches on Archway but may be wasn't able to pinpoint what I thought would be likely.  I put in his name, but from memory didn't come up with anything.  But could try again and with mention of the Royal Artillery.  Do you suggest what other search could be done.
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Sunday 20 February 11 10:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Annie, thanks for the information.  Will try that.  I had previously tried the genealogy society, but didn't hear back.  - This was some time ago and chances are they may not have even got my message.  I hadn't attached the photo then. 
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Sunday 20 February 11 18:19 GMT (UK)
Following on from Spades

Can you see the badge clearly on the copy you have
maybe able to match it here
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/new_zealand.htm
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Suzy W on Sunday 20 February 11 19:25 GMT (UK)
Love those Lemon Squeezer hats ;D

Does New Zealand Archives give the date of his enlistment?

Shame you can not get a closer look at the lapel and hat badges.  These will give you the regiment he was in.

I also agree it would be WW1.

Suzy W
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Sunday 20 February 11 20:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

Try putting it on the Armed Forces board

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,397.0.html

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Whenu on Sunday 20 February 11 20:19 GMT (UK)
Try having a look in here for service details,

http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/cenotaph/locations.aspx

Cheers
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: spades on Monday 21 February 11 06:45 GMT (UK)
Hi max,

Could you provide us with the name of the ancestor in the photo, please?

And just to clarify, the Royal Artillery and the Royal NZ Artillery used the same regimental badge on their uniform. I wasn't suggesting that your ancestor was in the Royal Artillery but could have been in the latter.

Spades.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 06:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

I wonder if they have come back for WW1 and may have been in hospital,the man second from the left sitting down looks like he may have his right forearm missing and the man back left looks as though he may have problems with his eyes,a couple of the others don't look too robust either,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Monday 21 February 11 07:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

the man second from the left sitting down looks like he may have his right forearm missing
Cheers Janette

Looks both arms to me Janette, I am sure I can see a bit of empty sleeve on the left.   Plus the way he is sitting doesn't seem right.


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 07:06 GMT (UK)
I think he is hanging on to the seat with his left hand,you can see fingers by his left hip,he certainly doesn't look well,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Monday 21 February 11 07:12 GMT (UK)
I think he is hanging on to the seat with his left hand,you can see fingers by his left hip,he certainly doesn't look well,

Cheers Janette

Must be time for new glasses ....didn't see those fingers.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 07:14 GMT (UK)
I saved the photo and enlarged it :P :P

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Kiwi Girl on Monday 21 February 11 07:51 GMT (UK)
me too - we are techno nerds!
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:06 GMT (UK)
Following on from Spades

Can you see the badge clearly on the copy you have
maybe able to match it here
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/new_zealand.htm
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Althea, unfortunately tried a couple of ways to see the badge clearly (scanned in a different resolution) but could only come up with what I thought was a plume...with a 'blobby' bit at the bottom ...and the only one I could see that looked like that was the band corps.... ! But as reading the comments, one of them does indeed look like he doesn't have right forearm as Janette has said..(I can see the hand of the other one) ..which may not indicate the band corps then! 
Thanks for that great site though and was really interesting seeing all the different badges.

Regards.
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:25 GMT (UK)
Try having a look in here for service details,

http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/cenotaph/locations.aspx

Cheers
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 08:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

Can you give us a name for you ancestor? we may be able to help you further,

Cheersd Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Whenu, another great site  because I think I may have brought up his record.  There are a number with his name, and in one or two things that I have come across for him, he seems to have adopted a middle name...but in fact his birth certificate in Ireland didnt.  Anyhow because he really had no kin in New Zealand at the time, he put a c/- address at that appears to be Waimate/Waihao Forks as I previously was aware he was from/spent time.  It says 42nd Reinforcements A Company embarkation Unit - 1914-1918 destination London.  Just can't figure that a approx. 45 would be called up.  Anyhow, will have to keep an open mind over this!
Thanks
Max.
Hi max,

Could you provide us with the name of the ancestor in the photo, please?

And just to clarify, the Royal Artillery and the Royal NZ Artillery used the same regimental badge on their uniform. I wasn't suggesting that your ancestor was in the Royal Artillery but could have been in the latter.

Spades.
Hi max,

Could you provide us with the name of the ancestor in the photo, please?

And just to clarify, the Royal Artillery and the Royal NZ Artillery used the same regimental badge on their uniform. I wasn't suggesting that your ancestor was in the Royal Artillery but could have been in the latter.

Spades.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Spades,  The ancestor's name is James Forrest, but I think appears in the cenotaph base as James William Forrest and some other piece of paper we have had James Willliam Forrest, so I am trying to make it fit!  In the photo he is the "Hitler"-moustached one - seated second from the right - the other chap looking somewhat like his twin.  In the Cenotaph information it gives nominal roll numbers of 88 and 4 but whether that is of any use.  I see that the personnel file is restricted access.  42nd Reinforcements A company - whether that means much again - but no doubt there will be information on that company. 

Regards.
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

Can you give us a name for you ancestor? we may be able to help you further,

Cheersd Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 08:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Janette, just posted a reply to Spades with his name, James (William) FORREST but by his birth certificate James Forrest.  There is a James Forrest on the cenotaph site but ruled him  out because the next of kin was New Zealand whereas my ancestor's kin were Dublin (and they were deceased by then).

Thanks.
Max.
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 09:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

A lot of the WW1 files at Archives have restricted on them,but they still digitise them without the restricted bits ;D I may be worth putting a new thread on the board asking for a Wellington Archives WW1 file to be digitised

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 09:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Max,

I wonder if they have come back for WW1 and may have been in hospital,the man second from the left sitting down looks like he may have his right forearm missing and the man back left looks as though he may have problems with his eyes,a couple of the others don't look too robust either,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: spades on Monday 21 February 11 09:08 GMT (UK)
It's ok Max, I'll look for an Archives file for you. Just be patient as there's quite a few queries in front of you.

Thanks for posting a name.

Spades
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 09:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks Spades,

I knew you would come to the rescue ;D ;D

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 09:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Janette, yes I thought must be post-war photo and just a gathering of the few that made it ...(albeit loss of limb perhaps)...not sure in your other message when you say digitise...?  Seems strange that it would be restricted anyhow..

Regards.
Maxine
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 09:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine,

there is an explaination here as to why some are restricted

http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21004157

The file is digitised at Archives and then can be viewed as a PDF document on the Archway website

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 09:19 GMT (UK)
It's ok Max, I'll look for an Archives file for you. Just be patient as there's quite a few queries in front of you.

Thanks for posting a name.

Spades
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Monday 21 February 11 09:31 GMT (UK)
THANK YOU Spades and everyone for your help - If indeed this is the ancestor in question (and I hope it is for everyone's sake!) but if not, I  have picked up some useful sites and information. 
I am patient Spades...as I haven't had any/much information in the past and have gained quite a bit in these postings which I certainly didn't have before. 
Regards.
Max.
p.s.  the lemon squeezer hats...certainly interesting - and unique ..   
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 19:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine,

The Lemon Squeezer hats are definitely NZ  ;D
Our army personel still wear them for ceremonial occasions

http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/structure/uniforms/ceremonial-service-dress.htm

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Suzy W on Monday 21 February 11 19:42 GMT (UK)
There is a hill/mountain near Hamner Spring that always make me think of the Lemon Squeezer hat, I think they should name it after the ANZAC's.

Good spotting about the arm Janette, he certainly does look different to the other men, and he is the only one who does not have his arms in front.  So I wonder if this is a mixed bunch of men?  The photo could of been taken at a hospital while they were recovering.  Anyone have clues on hospitals for returned service men down South?

Suzy W
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Monday 21 February 11 19:47 GMT (UK)
Not down South Suzy, I only know of Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Rotorua that was turned into a recovery place for the men.


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 20:02 GMT (UK)
It seems that there was a Sanatorium at Hanmer

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH1-Medi-t1-g1-t1-body-d22.html

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Suzy W on Monday 21 February 11 20:40 GMT (UK)
My grandfather recovered at the Rotorua hospital, I was trying to find the photo, but do you think I can?

Was it Queen Mary Hospital in Hamner Springs?  They have now closed it after many years being used as a detox hospital.

Suzy W
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Suzy W on Monday 21 February 11 20:41 GMT (UK)
Found it ...King George in Rotoura
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Janette on Monday 21 February 11 20:50 GMT (UK)
The soldiers block at Hanmer was built in 1916

http://www.hanmersprings.gen.nz/hanmer_springs/queen_mary_hospital.shtml

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Thursday 24 February 11 08:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine,

The Lemon Squeezer hats are definitely NZ  ;D
Our army personel still wear them for ceremonial occasions

http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/structure/uniforms/ceremonial-service-dress.htm

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Army photo query - Waimate
Post by: Maxclo on Thursday 24 February 11 09:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks Janette, Suzy and Kiwihalfpint for further thoughts re this and is something to follow up on as a possibility.  Unfortunately just a bit hard to go back to this or concentrate too much as with some of you may  possibly live in Christchurch as I do so things have just put on the back burner at the moment, but appreciate all the time and effort.

Maxe.