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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Offaly (Kings) => Topic started by: Trappa on Sunday 20 February 11 05:07 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for the family of John Molloy who married Eliza Kerans 5 Jun 1850, Durrow, Kings County. I have a letter that was written in 1861 by his father Charles Molloy that says John was living at the 'White Forge' with his family and at that time had 3 sons and one daughter. He held 30 acres of land and was under agent to Lady Norberry. I have located the birth of a later son, Samuel Robert who was born abt 1865. Any help or suggestion on how to find further information on this family would be much appreciated.
Thanking you.
Pat
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To find earlier details you will need to investigate church records. Do you know what religion your Molloy family were ?
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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Thankyou for your reply. The birth of the children mentioned would have fallen between 1850 & 1864 which, I think is outside of the registration period. Their religion was Church of Ireland. By using the Irish Census 1901 & 1911, I have located some Molloys that may fit the bill - how can I verify them?
Pat
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Full civil registration started in 1864, but non-Catholic marriages were registered from 1845.
Where were the children born - i.e. which parish ?
Once we have this I can check what records might be available.
There are a few John Molloy listings on Griffith's valuation which I presume you've already seen.
Shane
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Griffith Valuation shows a John Molloy renting properties from the Countess of Norbury (which may fit in with the info in the letter), Henry Kemmis & John H. Armstrong all in the Parish of Durrow, Union of Tullamore. I did find a 'White Forge' crossroads on the map. If that is the area referred to in the letter, could that also help to pinpoint the area?
Thanks again
Pat
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CofI records for Durrow are available in the Representative Church body library, Rathfarnham Dublin and these include : baptisms from 1706, marriages from 1797 and death/burials from 1707.
Transcript for this parish also seem to be available on the pay-web site of the Irish Family History Foundation at http://www.rootsireland.ie ( see their list of sources at : link (http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources) )
I'll have a look for that White Forge Crossroad you mention to check the townland and parish.
Shane
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The marriage is on LDS site:
5 June 1850 Durrow, Kings Co., John Molloy, son of Charles Molloy, to Eliza Kerans, daughter of Simon Kerans
The same site has the birth of two sons
1. Samuel Robert, born 26 Apr.1865 Tullamore dist., King Co. (page 824 in civil register)
2. son born 25 Oct.1867 Kilbeggan, Co.Westmeath (page 655 in civil register)
https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records
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Thanks Shane & thanks Aghadowey! I have opened the link to RootsIreland. I had seen the site before, but didn't take it any further as I was unfamiliar with it. Hoping I have some joy there & that I find what I am looking for. Shane until I hear from you..
Thanks again
Pat
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White Forge (Cross) is in that area and seems the correct spot as it is a boundary to the Durrow Estate i.e. the road from the south and the road from the West/Durrow form two of the boundaries of the old estate and meet at the cross- beautiful name but I never got a chance to establish its provenance i.e. was there a forge? Other/nearby townlands are Coniler, Ballybought etc.
BTC
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Hello Trappa, I am a newbie and have just come across a reference to John Molloy & Family, your letter dated February 20, 2011
I hope the letter is a copy you refer to, written by Charles Molloy from Bogtown in Ireland dated September 29, 1861 to his Nephew William Whittaker who was living in Kansas USA , because the last time I saw the original in 2002 it was plastic bound located at Maitland South Australia. At the time I had taken two descendants of Charles Molloy's youngest son, Charles, (who at the time the letter was written had gone to Australia six years ago, but Charles had not heard from him for 2 years) to view the letter and hold it in their hands.
Do you have or want any info concerning the Charles Molloy family decendants in Australia...Whatz 8)
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Hi Whatz,
Yes! The letter to which I refer is a copy. I have not had the privilige of seeing the original. I am a direct descendant of Charles Molloy's youngest son, Charles who had gone to Australia. It is only quite recently that I have had a breakthrough and been able to locate information about Charles' brothers who remained in Ireland. I am assuming that your connection is with the Whittaker family as opposed to the Molloy family.
I would be happy to exchange information with you...Trappa
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Yes Trappa, I am happy to exchange info with you.
I recently came acroos details through 'Trove' a Commonwealth of Australia Project putting images of many Australian historical newspapers on line) of Law Cases that occurred in Adelaide in 1876 and 1885 that gave detail of when the Whittakers moved to Offaly . They also listed family details. Your Charles Molloy married to Jain Whittaker, and she had 7 other brothers and sisters.
I now know Jain's father was John Whittaker a weaver at Hilclair and married Abigail Smith. Jain's eldest brother was Thomas Whittaker b. 1785 and died 1812 and married Elizabeth Fuller. I have descended from that line.
I am amazed at you effort in trying to locate exactly where Charles Molloy had land in Offaly and of course place names quoted by Charles in the 1861 letter probably were local name and might no longer exist.
I am intrigued from whom you were able to obtain the copy of the letter. It was published in the 'The Whittaker Saga' ( a story of William and Maria and their 3 sons) ISBN 0 9593675 00 which was printed back in 1983 an is probably in the National Library Canberra and Mortlock Library in Adelaide. Cheers for now, Whatz
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Some Molloy family headstones in Durrow cemetery;
Pat Molloy; Aug 1854 (76)
wife-Catherine; Nov 1877 (90)
dtr-Mary; Dec 1840 (28)
grand-son-Tom O Brien; (23)
son-Timothy; 18?1
son-Patrick; March 1901
his wife-Marcella; Nov 1937
dtr-in-law-Catherine; 8/9/1960
erected by son Timo Molloy Ballinamona
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Patrick Molloy; 28/8/1917 (55)
sister-Ellen; 11/11/1915 (57)
bro-William; 5/3/1945 (85)
his wife-Ellen; 21/1/1950 (78)
Tim Molloy
Michael Molloy; 16/9/1954 (84)
Margaret Molloy; 26/11/1979
erectecd by his wife Ellen & son Michael
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James Molloy; Kildangan; 18/1/1990 (80)
Father-James
infant bro-John
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Rody Molloy; Muniagh; 17/11/1958
Parents; Bernard & Mary F.
Sisters-Annie & Kitty
Mary B; 9/11/1994
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Patrick Molloy; Ballybought; 7/7/1973 (82)
wife-Mary Kate; 3/6/1984 (72)
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Jack
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Hello Whatz,
This is my second attempt to send this reply. The first I managed to lose when doing the spell check. Hopefully I will be more successful second time around.
If memory serves me correctly the copy of the handwritten letter together with a typed transcription was given to me by a distant cousin who was living in South Australia at the time. She had attended a Whittaker family reunion where she had been welcomed as a direct descendant of Charles Molloy.
It was only quite recently that I dissected the letter into possible location names and families. For the locations once I looked at them phonetically and cross referenced to the handwritten letter the possibility of an incorrect transcription became probable.
Of course this then paved the way for me to locate Charles Molloy and Jain Whittakers' children as mentioned in the letter as well as their subsequent families.
Additional information provided on various websites suggests that the parents of Charles Molloy could be Warren Molloy and Elizabeth Dobbins. I do not have any proof of that, yet I do believe it to be so. A sibling of Charles Molloy was Sarah Molloy who married John Handibo. John Handibo was transported to Australia in 1830 for stealing a sheep. Sarah followed him in 1836 with their surviving children. John Handibo's parents are listed as James Handebo and Ann Dobbins. Interesting!!
John Handibo and Sarah Molloy moved to the Armidale area of NSW, Australia and were residents of that area until their deaths in 1865 and 1862 respectively. Likewise Charles Warren Molloy after he married Elizabeth Ward in 1862. Note the introduction of Warren as a family name as it continues down through the generations. By the time of the birth of their son, Charles Warren Molloy in 1866, they too, were living in the Armidale area. Was it merely a coincidence that they moved to the same area or was it possible that Charles Warren Molloy knew prior to his arrival in Australia where his Aunt and Uncle were living?
Thank you for the information re the parentage for Jain Whittaker and your lineage. Do you have any knowlege of her other siblings and their movements?
Best wishes,
Trappa
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Hello Seanmac,
Thank you for the detailed information you have provided regarding the Molloy family headstones in Durrow Cemetary. At this time I don't think that they belong to my Molloys - But who knows?
Trappa
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Good dayTrappa
I mention that I had used Trove to down load digitised details of court cases Following is details of one of those cases and I am only showing the detail of the petitioner William Whittaker , who had been encouraged by Adelaide solicitors to come from America and lay claim to James Whittaker’s estate. James Whittaker had died intestate when the Admella had been wrecked in 1859.
It was detail set out in the “affidavits table explanation of the case" that revealed a number of Whittaker descendants we never knew existed and that William W had been baptised and poor Nancy Whittaker, the mother of James, we thought had produced a natural child (bastard) whereas the table clearly tells us she was Nancy McCluskey and that she had married James Whittaker, a soldier, who died at war when son James was a young boy. Also it says WIlliam Whittaker came to King's County at a place called Kilbegan. I assume it must have been over the border to be Kings Co, as Kilbeggan is in West meath Co
Taken from Court Case Wm, Whittaker v. the Curator of Intestate Estates.
South Australian Register (Adelaide, SA : 1839 - 1900) Monday 29 November 1875 Page 3 of 8
William Whittaker (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/40089220?searchTerm=William Whittaker&searchLimits=l-title=South+Australian+Register ...%7Ctitleid%3A41) (Trove)
LOCAL COURT OF APPEALS. Saturday November 27. 1875
His Excellency— Let the affidavits be read.
It appeared from a table put before the Court that the root of the petitioner's pedigree was in one William Whittaker, who came up to King's County, Ireland, in 1775. He lived, at a place called Kilbegan, and was believed to have been lawfully married. At any rate he had two sons— John, a weaver at Kilclair, and James, a soldier. James married one Nancy McClusky, by whom he had one son, also called James. This man came to Australia, did well, was drowned In the Admella in 1859, and left considerable property both real and personal. He, however, died intestate, and search was ultimately made for heirs. It was found that Nancy McClusky, the mother of the intestate, had married a second time one James Watson, and had had issue four children. These being but members of the half blood could only take personality, and on the strength of affidavits (the admissibility of which, as will be seen from what follows below, is now disputed) had that portion of the estate divided among them.
To find an heir of the realty recourse was had to the family of the brother of deceased's father. It was found that he had married one Abigail Smith, by whom he had eight children, the' eldest male being Thomas, who was born 1785, and died in 1812. He married Elisabeth Fuller, and bad nine children ; the eldest male living is the petitioner, Wm. Whittaker, who claims as the second cousin of the intestate to be heir-at-law. He is believed to have been born in the early part of February, 1810. At that time very imperfect and often no registers of birth were kept, but It appears that he was baptized on the 13th February. It appears that petitioner in early life emigrated to America, and has become a naturalized citizen of the United States. In the year 1864 he heard of the death of the intestate and that he could have the property by coming here. Accordingly he realized his farm and property at a considerable sacrifice. Since that time — 11 years ago — every enquiry has been made into the history of the family, and there has been no other claimant. The property is producing some £300 a year, and it has been stated in the course of argument that the Curator derives about £50 a year for his trouble as administrator.
Moderator Note : Link fixed and shrunk
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Hi Whatz,
What truly amazing information to be provided with. I did go on the Trove website to see the actual item as printed. Wouldn't every genealogist be pleased to find information like that! I have previously used Trove to locate information on the Molloy family but have always limited my search to NSW and unfortunately, I have never found anything of any great consequence.
I have not yet been able to fully digest the relationships between the families noted, but I will put pen to paper and then I will be fine. Did your Thomas Whit(t)aker remain in Ireland - if so, do you have details of his children and their marriages? Do you have any additional details of Thomas and Jain's other siblings?
Best Wishes
Trappa
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I have some information on the descendents of John & Eliz obtained through the families of William and Charles T, two of their children. My grandmother's sister Sarah was married to William and many of their descendents and those of Charles T, came to Canada. Please post if you wish further information.
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Hi jecgirl,
I would be very pleased to receive any information you hold on the Molloys in Canada and in turn, if you are interested I can provide information on Charles Molloy who came to Australia.
Trappa
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Trappa, my records are by no means complete but I show only 3 children of John Molloy and Eliza Kerans, Charles T. b 1854, William b 1859 and Elizabeth b 1864. I would appreciate your filling in the blanks for me. Charles T. married Dora Hankinson (b 1857 in King's County) in 1884. Charles T. died in Durrow 17 Dec 1909. They had 8 children that I am aware of. Dora and some of the children emigrated to Canada in 1914 and some of their descendents still live in Brantford, Ontario. William married Sarah Elizabeth Kelly, b 1866 in Tullamore, King's County in 1882. They had 10 children and emigrated to Canada in 1913. Sarah was the sister of my grandmother Emily Kelly. Sarah and Emily had an uncle William Kelly who emigrated to Australia in 1856 to join his brother Thomas. They farmed and the farm was called Clonminch, after their homeland in King's County. Sarah and Emily also had a brother William whom I believe first went to England and then to Australia as well. There are many descendents of the two Molloy brother's in Canada although I am not in contact with any except one.
How do you fit into the Molloy family? I have a Charles T. Molloy, son of the above Charles T. and Dora who was born in 1888 but I have no further info. Is this the Charles you are related to?
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Hi jecgirl,
My relationship is through Charles Warren Molloy, brother of John Molloy who married Eliza Kerans and William Molloy who married Eliza Hankinson. Their parents being Charles Molloy and Jain Whittaker. Charles Warren Molloy emigrated to Australia approx 1855. He married Elizabeth Ward at Port Macquarie, NSW and moved to Walcha NSW.
Trappa
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Thanks. I do have Charles Warren and Elizabeth Ward on my tree but I have no dates or other information or any children. If you would share that info with me, you could use the board email to do so. I believe there was also a sister of Charles Warren named Anne and my records have her as a twin of John (or at least born in the same year, 1821) but I have no other info. I also had the parental information.
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Hi
Just going through the threads and noticed a potential error. A John Handibo arrived as an unassisted immigrant in 1836 in Port Jackson, NSW, Australia. Sarah also arrived as an unassisted immigrant in 1836 in Port Jackson, NSW, Australia. Coincidence?
The John Handibo transported in 1830 was also a younger man according to the convict records, born in 1787.
Regards
kwhitts :-)
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Hi there, my great grandfather was a James Molloy from Kildangan. His daughter married and moved into Tullamore. I've been to the Kildangan house but not been inside though I do have some pictures of it.
If it is the same Molloys then the grave stone of the little boy reminds me of a story from my mother who told how James' wife was feeding the turkeys and had boiled up nettles. The child stumbled backwards into it....
I believe that James' mother was a Mallone from Rahan.
Hope I'm not wasting your time here....
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Hi ray at
Good to hear from you. I am very interested in hearing more about your James Molloy. I was in Durrow & Tullamore in May chasing info on our Molloys. Do you know any birthdate or death date for your Great Grandfather? We have been deciphering a Molloy table gravestone from the Durrow Church graveyard that may be of interest.
Karen
Australia
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I would have said that a second James Molloy in Kildangan was unlikely, but a second James Molloy who was a right footer (protestant) is even odder. No, my great grandfather would have been RC and if by the church in Durrow you mean the church on the Durrow estate, then no, he would more than likely be buried in Tullamore although there is a rather pretty RC church a little ways along the Kilbeggan road. The truth is partly that I don't remember enough details and partly that there was something of a distance between two parts of the family. But obviously I was mistaken in thinking it was the same Molloys.
All the best, Ray