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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: holliemcbride on Thursday 17 February 11 17:25 GMT (UK)
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Sorry my other comment has been removed due to it being so recent, so ive been guided to ask if any one has any connections to an Agnes Hughes Marshall who spent some time in torphichen as a farm servant in the 1930s and also a Thomas McBride who was a wood turner living at 46 Russel Row also in the 1930s.
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Maybe my reply to your earlier posting disappeared before you could read it. Agnes Hughes Marshall is a very distictive name. You could search for a marriage for her some time after the birth. The marriage certificate will give her age and details about her parents. You could also search the index back to find her birth, assuming she was born in Scotland. You could also look for a marriage for Thomas McBride and for Thomas McBride births. You will be able to narrow down candidates and eventually hit on the right ones. You could also search for a death for Agnes Hughes Marshall.
Graham.
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Hollie is the middle name definately Hughes.I can't find a birth for an Agnes Hughes Marshall but there is one for an Agnes Euphemia Marshall in Torphichen in 1912.
George.
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Hiya
Its on the extract of entry in a register of births name, surname and rank of proffession and maiden name of mother.
Thomas McBride Wood Turner and Agnes Hughes Marshall Farm Servant. But it is signed as Agnes Marshall.
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I wouldn't take them as cut and dried as my own grandmother had two middle names missing on her entry even though I know for sure she had them.Don't give up though,you will get a lot of help on here I'm sure.My grandfather was illigitimate yet I now have one side of his family back to 1775.Have to go to work but I wil have a look when I am free.Meanwhile click on the link below and you can see my search for my McBrides.I started with very little info and ended up with rellies from all over the place ;D
George.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,506190.0.html
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thankyou for your help really means alot. xx
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Hi Hollie,in your earlier post you said Thomas McBride was living in Bathgate.Now I am not saying yet that this is your Thomas but between 1855 and 1920 there was only one Thomas McBride born in Bathgate and that was in 1900 and none in Torphichen.If he turns out to be yours then I know where his parents were born.The 1911 census is available in April so we can see if he is still there then and if he is still the only one.
George.
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Good Morning,
I have been searching all morning and found the Thomas McBride that was born in Bathgate in 1900 died when he was 3 months old. So back to square one again.
Hollie
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I think the best idea is to wait until 1911 census is available as I have found alot of families continue to use the same name for a baby who they have lost for the next one. So maybe Bridget went on to have another Thomas McBride. What do you think?
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Yes this happens and has quite a few times in my ancestry.I wondered why that Thomas was missing on the 1901 census.So it would seem your Thomas could have born elsewhere and moved to Bathgate.Back to the drawing board ;D.Still it's all part of the fun and frustration of searching.I don't suppose it gives the parents ages on your grandfather's birth certificate.
George.
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Exactly, I did think with naivety that it would be easier then this. I have been in touch with the west Lothian Library who has kindly searched the valuation roll between 1931-1932 and 46-48 Russell Row has a tenant named Susan McBride registered there. Maybe another path to go down.
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Well at least by searching for McBride in Bathgate Hollie I am going to have several I have opened looking for mine,my gran Hannah McBride was born in Bathgate as was her father George and his father James moved there.There is a Susan born to a Susan McBride in Bathgate in 1900 but I think the entry below looks more promising.
George.
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Hey Hollie,this one looks more hopeful,the only other Thomas born in West Lothian in your timescale.Born Livingstone 1903,mother Susan McBride,father James McBride,married Bathgate 1896.Now where did they go to.Once again we need that 1911 census.Not long now though.
Thomas McBride born Livingstone 17th December 1903
Father James McBride coalminer
Mother Susan McBride maiden name Foy
James and Susan married in Bathgate on June 15th 1896
I have this doc,if it proves to be yours I can email it to you.Given that both Thomas and Susan are living at Russell Row,this could well be yours :)
ps.if you do want it emailing only leave an email address on my Personal Message box not on the thread.
George.
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Hollie,good news,this is looking more like your Thomas now.It would appear that the date of marriage is wrong on Thomas's birth entry.James and Susan married in Bathgate on 23 September 1905 so after Thomas's birth.This means they were not married at Thomas's birth or it was an irregular marriage.This basically is where a couple just state they are married and move in together.My guess is they just said they were married.It could also explain why the birth took place in Livingstone when they were both from Bathgate.Anyway they eventually went through with it properly.It was a Catholic marriage and in Bathgate this would have been at the Church of The Immaculate Conception.My McBrides married in the same church.I will check their records tomorrow.
James lived at North St Bathgate
Susan,whose maiden name was Foy lived at RUSSELL ROW bathgate
James's parents were Myles McBride and Elizabeth(can't make the maiden name out,will work on it)
Susan's parents were Patrick Foy and Sarah Foy,maiden name Canning.
Like me I think you are going to find you are part Irish ;D
George.
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1891 census Russell Row Bathgate
Patrick Foy Head 50 Born Ireland
Sarah wife 43 Born Ireland
SUSAN daughter unmarried 23 born Bathgate. This is Thomas's mother.
Michael son 19 Born Ireland
Patrick son 17 Born Bathgate
Thomas son 15 Born Bathgate
Sarah daughter 13 Born Bathgate
John son 10 Born Bathgate
James son 8 Born Bathgate
Peter son 5 Born Bathgate
Martin son 1 Born Bathgate
Have to rush off to work Hollie but I will email you these docs as you asked tomorrow when I have the day off.
George ;)
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Hi Hollie,more for you.I now have James McBride's mother's surname,it's Leyden.
Myles McBride and Elizabeth Leyden married in Bathgate on 17th December 1859.
Myles's parents were Hugh McBride and Margaret Mclean
Elizabeth's were Francis Leyden and Ann....still trying to work her surname out ;D
Have it now it looks like it is Ann Fannin,another Irish name.
George.
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What we have at the moment.
Thomas McBride
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James McBride = Susan Foy
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Myles McBride = Elizabeth Leyden Patrick Foy = Sarah Canning
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Hugh McBride Francis Leyden
= =
Margaret McLean Ann Fannin
We can track Thomas once the 1911 census is available in April.
George.
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Some more to add to the above Hollie.Sarah Canning's surname is Cannon,not Canning.
Patrick Foy a 30 year old widower and pit worker married Sarah Cannon a 22 year old farm worker living at Westfield Farm in Bathgate on 12th February 1867.
Patrick's parents were Michael and Mary Foy.(still trying to work out Mary's maiden name)Michael was a blacksmith.
Sarah's parents were Hugh Cannon and Susan O'Donnell
Hugh was a farmer.
Add on.the thinking now is Mary Foy's maiden name is Mary Cox.
George.
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Almost all the names mentioned here, Cannon, O'Donnel, McBride etc are still in Bathgate and went to St Mary's High School with my wife.
James.
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Hi James,how are you,well I hope.Hmmm,it's possible I have relations in Bathgate then,my grandmother was born there as was my great grandfather and my great great grandfather married there,all McBrides.
George.
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Hollie,some more info since we last spoke via PM.It's taken a bit longer as the digging is getting harder ;D.
Westfield Farm,where your GGG grandmother Sarah Cannon was working when she married still exists.It's just north of Bathgate to the west of Torphichen.
Some more of your GGG grandparents Myles McBride and Elizabeth Leyden's children.I'm sure there are more but this is all I have so far.
WILLIAM born 29th December 1860 Falkirk
ANN born 29th May 1864 Livingston
JAMES born 26th August 1866 Livingstone...yout GG grandfather.
MYLES born 26th October 1868 West Calder
This would be the younger Myles I found already,will have to go back and find him again ;D
It looks like when James and Susan went to Livingstone for the birth of Thomas(before their marriage)they had relatives there.
George.
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Oops forgot,some on Patrick Foy and Sarah Cannon's children.You have them on the 1891 census but there is another not on it,Catherine.She would have been 21 at the time of the census and possibly working elsewhere or married.
SUSAN born 27 December 1867 Bathgate
CATHERINE born 3rd October 1869 Bathgate
PATRICK born 28th November 1873 Bathgate
You saw on the census that their eldest son was born in Ireland,now I can tell you where and so I would think this is where Patrick Foy,your GGG grandfather comes from.
MICHAEL FOY born 18th September 1871 County Mayo.
Parents..Patrick Foy and Sarah Cannon.
You are very lucky,I haven't located where any of my Irish lot were born yet ???
George.
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an irregular marriage.This basically is where a couple just state they are married and move in together.
Err .... not altogether! An irregular marriage was (broadly speaking) a marriage recognised by the law but not by the Church (of Scotland).
Regular marriages were those performed by a clergyman after due proclamation of banns etc.
You could, however, also be legally married by declaring yourselves to be married in front of witnesses, or by 'cohabitation and repute' - in other words, by living together for long enough to be regarded as married.
See http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
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I was giving the abridged version Forfarian,I have several in my family including one that wasn't solemnized in church till nearly 40 years later ;D
George.
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one that wasn't solemnized in church till nearly 40 years later
Fair dos :) though I'd have thought that 'cohabitation and repute' would have kicked in by 40 years!
But the commonest type of irregular marriage was the marriage by declaration before witnesses.
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Have one of them too,seems to have taken place at a house in Glasgow,witnessed by two relatives and rubber stamped at the Sheriffs.
As to the first one,she was dying and they seem to have gone through with a church marriage before she died.
George.
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Hi
I hope I can add something useful to this thread and perhaps glean some information for myself.
I've not read everything on this thread but was drawn in by the parts about Susan Foy (McBride) and her Mother Sarah Foy.
Patrick & Sarah Foy of Russel Row, Bathgate were my paternal great great grandparents.
I have some papers about their oldest daughter Susan (32 yrs old at time of 1901 census) married to James McBride.
Their son Myles (4 at time of 1901 census) joined the army in 1915 and died 25.8.18 of 'exhaustion' as a prisoner of war in Kaehmen, Crossen.
Her address was given as The Loan, Torphichen, Bathgate.
I also have an old photograph with no information on the back other than 'Mays Grandmother'.
It's highly likely that this was May Foy (born 1914) whose paternal grandparents were Patrick & Sarah Foy of Russells Row, Bathgate
It is however possible that the lady in the pic is on her mother's side. That would be Helen O'Donnell. She was the wife of Patrick Foy Jnr (Balbardie Avenue, Bathgate)
It's a long shot but someone may be able to confirm the identity of the lady in my picture.
(https://i.imgur.com/ub7IDKi.jpg)
Sarah Foy (nee Cannon) ?
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Exactly, I did think with naivety that it would be easier then this. I have been in touch with the west Lothian Library who has kindly searched the valuation roll between 1931-1932 and 46-48 Russell Row has a tenant named Susan McBride registered there. Maybe another path to go down.
Hi Hollie. My great great grandparents (Patrick & Sarah Foy) lived at 46 Russell Row. Their eldest daughter Susan married a man called James McBride.
I believe he was from The Loan, Torphichen but I guess they could have lived with her parents after they got married