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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lynnv on Wednesday 16 February 11 18:03 GMT (UK)
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I would be grateful for any thoughts anyone has on the Vernons which is not an uncommon name in Cheshire.
My relative Joseph Vernon bn1821 Little Budworth to Joseph and Mary Vernon. He seems to be their first child. Siblings Sarah 1825, Ann 1827, Martha 1830 & Abraham 1833 all baptized Little Bud and on every census entry for all birthplace is Little Bud. So i thought I would look for marriage of Joseph & Mary in Little Bud- Not there. Banns are missing around this date.
Bertram Merrell has a marriage though for Joseph Vernon and Mary Towers in Great Budworth in February 1821 banns for this marriage say both are of Great Budworth parish. Do you think I am safe to assume that these are my relatives and for some reason decided to marry in Great Budworth which I know is not right next door to Little Budworth
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Dear Lynnv,
One of my OH's relatives married into the Vernon family and they were from Little Budworth.
As far as I recall the family tree goes back to 1824 with the birth of John Vernon of Little Budworth.
Have you had a look at the Beta site of Family Search Org. which lists the Lancashire, Cheshire and Yorkshire Parish Registers.
If I can help please let me know.
Bill
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Thanks Bill I have been on the Beta site but found nothing more than I already knew from records office. Quite a few Vernons in Little Budworth I'm sure we will be related further back. I'm just puzzled as to why Mary & Joseph would have married in Great Budworth. Wish the banns for Little Budworth for that period hadn't gone missing/been destroyed. Regards Lynn
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Actually Bill could be closer than I thought. I think your John Vernon may have been maried to Elizabeth Cawley whilst my Joseph Vernon married Sarah Cawley . Needs more investigation
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Just looking at my paperwork, John Vernon married an Elizabeth(?) and this info. came from the 1861 census. The children were: George (1846), Robert (1848), Joseph (1849) Samuel (1850) Clara (1857 and Enoch (1854). The family that is of interest to my wifes relastion follows the line of Samuel (Little Budworth) who married a lady called Ann (from Tiverton, Cheshire).
Hope it it of some use.
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Bill Looks like your Elizabeth and my Sarah Cawley were sisters both born to Joseph and Elizabeth Cawley (elizabeth bn1822 and Sarah 1825) I don't think Joseph and John were brothers but am looking for the link there. Keep you informed Lynn
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Dear lynnv,
Tks for your message. Will put my toe back into the pond on this part of my OHs family tree. Will keep you advised of any developments!
Bill
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Just looking at my paperwork, John Vernon married an Elizabeth(?) and this info. came from the 1861 census. The children were: George (1846), Robert (1848), Joseph (1849) Samuel (1850) Clara (1857 and Enoch (1854). The family that is of interest to my wifes relastion follows the line of Samuel (Little Budworth) who married a lady called Ann (from Tiverton, Cheshire).
Hope it it of some use.
the marriages are on
www.cheshirebmd.org.uk
1845 at St Peter , Delamare , Cheshire West 123/1/42 Elizabeth Cawley to John Vernon
1845 at St Peter , Little Budworth , Cheshire West 132/1/16 Sarah Cawley to Joseph Vernon
so I find it a little strange that 2 sisters would marry the same year in 2 different churches ???....I think the Delamere marriage needs investigating to see if Elizabeth is the sister of Sarah.....
allan :)
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I thought you might like this postcard of Little Budworth - a little later than your Vernon residence. I do have others if you would like more. I lived in Little Budworth for a number of years, my grandfather and father ran the local Post Office from 1932ish until 1975ish.
I also have the MIs for St Peter, but they are on fiche. I'll have to see if the local library or archives will let me use their fiche reader.
BumbleB
Why can't I attach a photgraph to this post?
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Plan B as I think that I cannot post a photograph on a look-up board - so I'll put it on the Cheshire board and cross-reference it to this thread (with the same title).
BumbleB
Moderator comment: Link to the image:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,515034.0.html
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Great Photo....allan :)
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Lovely, lovely photograph -many thanks.
Bill
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Finally got to the library to use the fiche reader :)
Memorial Inscriptions for Vernon - St Peter, Little Budworth.
B64 - In memory of Mary the beloved wife of Joseph Vernon who departed this life 12 March 1874 in the 83rd year of her life.
C1 - In memory of Arthur Vernon of Little Budworth who died 25 May 1822 in the 70th year of his age, also Ann his wife who died 21 June 1824 in the 73rd year of her age.
BumbleB
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Thank you so much Bumbleb have been away for some time and come back to some great news. Gots lots to go on now. Once again thank ylou for taking time to research for me. Regards Lynn
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Hi Lynn
I know that some time has passed but I do have relevant information regarding Joseph Vernon b 1821 whose parents are indeed Joseph Vernon and Mary Towers. If you are still looking and would like this information (or if anyone else reading this feed would like it) then please post and I'll reply.
Thanks
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Hi mrs Anderson, as you say it's been awhile since I've done any family history but any leads are so intrigueing would love to know what you have. I will need to go and have a look at my records now.
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Hi Lynn
My interest in the Vernon family is a slightly different angle. My gt gt gt gt grandfather is a Henry Towers. His birth certificate showed his mother to be a Mary Towers and no father listed. I thought that my search was over as it's difficult to pinpoint a father to an illegitimate child. However, Henry's father was listed on Henry's marriage certificate and it was Joseph Vernon !!
Henry was born in 1819, Joseph and Mary got married in 1821 (and she must have been pregnant again with Joseph Vernon jnr !). They got married in Great Budworth and lived in Little Budworth thereafter. I'm not sure why they got married in a different place but Henry is listed at Little Budworth for his birth and so I can only think that there may not have been a priest in place at Little Budworth in 1821 for when they got married.
I live three miles away from Great Budworth and have visited the graveyard and found nothing. Little Budworth is about six miles away and I understand Joseph and Mary are buried there. Henry Towers along with four generations of my family are in St Mary's churchyard, Sandiway (about eight miles away).
I have three other children for Joseph and Mary (Ann, Martha and Abraham). If you need any other info, I'll be pleased to help.
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My apologies but Great Budworth and Little Budworth are at least 10 miles apart, with Northwich in between :) I find it rather strange that two people who say they are born in Little Budworth, lived in Little Budworth and died in Little Budworth, should get married in Great Budworth. Are you sure you're talking about the same couple - Vernon is a fairly common name in the area.
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Ah - I may have the link :)
Little Budworth was in the hands of the Egerton family, and Great Budworth was in the hands of the Egerton-Warburton family. Rowland Egerton, born 1804, was the son of Philip Egerton who became 9th baronet of Egerton and Oulton (Little Budworth) in 1825 - further details available from "Mr Wiki" regarding the addition of Warburton to the family name.
I had noticed, in the early censuses, that the staff in Little Budworth, for the Egerton family, were invariably "out-siders" with very few locals. Perhaps this was the same for the Egerton-Warburton family in Great Budworth, and that Joseph and Mary were "transferred". On Henry Towers' birth entry in Tarporley, Mary is said to be from Rushton, which makes sense.
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Thanks bumblebee what you say about Egerton-warburton families make great sense.
Mrs Anderson, bumblebee provided me with a grave inscription from St peters little bud some time ago for Arthur vernon of little bud who died 25 May 1822 in 70 th year of his age and also his wife ann who died 21 June 1824 in 73 rd year of her age. I think these are Joseph's parents. Arthur married ann in 1778 in little budworth. Do you have this info? My records seem to go back one more generation.
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Hi Bumble B
Yes, I do think it is the same family and I have thought about the situation quite a lot. Regarding the marriage: well, the only explanation I think may be relevant from the Towers side, is that they lived in Marston. Great Budworth is on a hill and halfway down the hill is Marston - maybe half a mile/a mile as the crow flies from where the Towers family lived. I wondered whether the Towers side set the place where they married and, like you say, they were drafted in to the Egerton-Warburton estate.
I've researched (at amateur level) the Vernons/Towers for about eight years and I can't seem to find any other combination of names/dates. I agree with the Arthur/Ann info regarding Joseph Vernon Snr.
Are we getting there ? :)
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So, you think that Mary was born in Marston in 1791, moves to Little Budworth or Rushton where she gives birth to Henry and has him baptised in Tarporley in 1819, then marries Joseph Vernon 2 years later in Great Budworth, then moves back to Little Budworth where she dies at the age of 83 in 1874. Have I summed it up correctly?
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Yes bumbleb that seems the answer to me.
Will put henry towers into my tree now. Thank you Mrs Anderson. Have you gone any further back than the generation before Arthur and ann vernon( nee parsons)?
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Hi Bumble B
Actually, I don't know where Mary was born. I have a birth date of 1798 not 1791. Also, I don't know that Henry was baptised - all I can say is that Henry was born in 1819 and he puts a selection of Marston, Little Budworth and Northwich down on census material as his birth place. I can confirm that Mary Towers and Joseph Vernon are his parents due to the birth certificate and marriage certificate (which I have).
My summation would be that Mary was born near Little Budworth where she met Joseph - her baptism is in the right area. Perhaps the vicar wouldn't marry them at Little Budworth due to an illegitimate child perhaps and so the Towers family in Marston organised the marriage in their parish ? Being as we don't have Banns records it would be hard to tell. They got married in Great Budworth but that was their only link ? I'm just thinking creatively because of human nature.
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Sorry, didn't get around to posting this:
1841 Census - HO107/96/2 folio 5 page 4 - Little Budworth
Next door but one to Joseph and Mary Vernon -
Charles Towers - 35 - Ag Lab - all born in county
Jane 35
John 7
Thomas 4
Charles 1 month
1851 - HO107/2166 folio 54, page 10 - Little Budworth
Charles Towers - 50 - Ag Lab - born LB
Jane - 51 - born Winsford
Thomas 14 - LB
Charles 11 - LB
Mary 6 - LB
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Mrs Anderson -
Henry Towers was baptised in Tarporley on 14 March 1819, the son of Mary Towers of Rushton, Spinster. - FindMyPast - Diocese of Chester baptisms 1538-1910 - image.
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As I went to Lichfield Archives today, I took the opportunity to look at my personal fiche copy of Little Budworth Memorial Inscriptions. There are no Tower memorials, and only the two for Vernon I have already posted.
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Thank you for that info. I went to Cheshire Records Library and saw the microfiche of the parish book of Great Budworth. I knew that there had been a fire but only a chunk of the book had been damaged. Amazingly, Joseph Vernon and Mary Towers' wedding record was in the first few pages that were not damaged. They were both listed as from that parish and Joseph was listed as an Agricultural Labourer which is correct.
About the same time a lot of Vernons were married at Great Budworth and then about 20 years goes by and there are none - but some appear in areas around Little Budworth.
I also realised that Henry Towers' baptism information I actually had and I viewed the baptisms of the Vernon children: Joseph (30.9.1821), Sarah (10.4.1825), Ann (19.8.1827), Martha (28.2.1830) and Abraham (17.2.1833). Joseph is listed as a labourer again.
I don't think the children stayed in the area as I know that Henry Towers was married and buried in St Mary's Church Whitegate as he owned a farm there and I have his will also.