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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: patval on Tuesday 15 February 11 19:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Does anyone have any idea what qualifications a Town Clerk would require for election... I have had it suggested that they had to be a solicitor or writer...
regards
Patricia
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You could perhaps ask on this new website! They might possibly have the answer! ;)
http://www.askscotland.org.uk/
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I do not think there would be any particular qualfication required other than the tacit support of a majority of the Councillors. It would not have been a permanent position then, probably requiring an annual election or vote to continue.
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Following my discovery in Feb of the Dornoch Council Minutes, I found that our ancestors Hugh Macdonald snr and Hugh Macdonald jnr are both recorded as holding the position of Sheriff Clerk of Sutherland also acting as Town Clerk of Dornoch, Hugh jnr taking over both posts when Hugh snr died in 1756. Apparently in Dornoch at that time the position of Town Clerk was not included in the re-election process, it was a position for life. the position of Sheriff clerk had opposition but Hugh jnr got the post .
MS 1483 (NLS) Dugald Gilchrist letters to John Mackenzie of Delvine:
Letter of 4-3-1756 (extract):
Mr McDonald sheriff clerk is by all appearance on his deathbed…..[candidates for his post] There are 2 countrymen at Edinburgh in the writing business, viz Donald Ross a son of a tacksman and an old caner of the Earl’s at Brora who wrote with Mr Davidson of Whitehouse, and William Sutherland aforesaid whose father is a tenant on the estate of Skelbo. There is a son of Mr McDonald’s likewise who lives at Chanry of good character. They all 3 understand Erse but I believe the first and the last I have mentioned have more the practice than William Sutherland.
Letter of 24-3-1756 (extract):
Mr Baillie at Ardmore informs me that Hugh McDonald’s son succeeds his father as sheriff clerk of Sutherland. His father made demission of the office in favour of his son a week or two before his death.
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I can't find any evidence of Hugh snr in Dornoch his son is recorded as living in Chanry (Chanonry) at the time of his fathers death.... I thought perhaps it would help if I knew what profession Hugh might have held.....
Thanks Patricia
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Domestic Goddess, I have posted my question, see what replies I get....
Many thanks.
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I would venture a guess that a Town Clerk would be appointed by the members of the Town Council it would not be an elected job.
Can you tell us which town it would be? A small Town or a big City?
Usually, over the last 100 years or more a Town Clerk is usually a solicitor or legal post.
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Hi
the town was Dornoch, quite a small fishing village in the early 1700's but had been made a Burgh.. it is on the east coast in the county of Sutherland.
I have found evidence that the position of Town Clerk was for life although the councillors were elected anually.
I think you are right about the clerk holding a legal position I just wondered was this so in early 1700.
Regards Patricia
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I seem to recall that there have been other questions about Sherrifs on this web site..
I am sorry I had not noticed your other post when you mentioned Scotland. I live in Wales, so the terminology in Scotland is quite different. And I have made wrong assumptions about Scots words before.
I suggest you do an advanced google search of other threads on this site to see if you can pick up previous questions. The thread I am thinking of was in the last 6 months, and was asking about a sherriffs wife, IIRC.
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From page 209 of The History of Sanquhar (online and out of copywright)
http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofsanquha00browiala#page/208/mode/2up
This section is quite topical as it refers to the position of Town Clerk in the 18th century (Sanquhar was a Royal Burgh in Scotland)
I note that the position was made a life appointment in 1789 previously being voted on an annual basis.
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Scouse Boy is right. The Town Clerk is not an elected position. These days the equivalent official is probably the Chief Executive of the council. Almost all the 18th century Town Clerks I have come across were indeed lawyers/solicitors/writers, and most of the current CEs of local authorities I've encountered also had a legal background.
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Scouse Boy is right. The Town Clerk is not an elected position. These days the equivalent official is probably the Chief Executive of the council. Almost all the 18th century Town Clerks I have come across were indeed lawyers/solicitors/writers, and most of the current CEs of local authorities I've encountered also had a legal background.
In recent years though, there is a tendency for the Town Clerk to be the chief legal officer of the council, sometimes the Town Clerk has been re-named as the County Solicitor.
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From what I can gather they were not paid a great deal for their services at that time either...... must have been more for prestige than payment.....
Thanks for all the help you are a knowledgeable lot......., I think I can consider Hugh to have been a writer..... May help in finding his parents although Dornoch records are very poor in the early 1700's.....
kind regards Patricia... :-*
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as it says of the prospective candidates, "they are both in the writing business", in Scotland a "writer" is a lawyer! see WS, a Writer to the Signet Skoosh.
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Thats right Skoosh but it says 2 candidates were writers Donald Ross and William Sutherland... of Hugh Macdonald it just says 'there is a son of Macdonald likewise who lives etc..... are we to assume being 'likewise' he is also a writer?
Another puzzlement is the fact that Hugh snr 'made demission of the office in favour of his son a week or two before his death'.
One of the Gilchrist letters says:
Letter of 17-3-1756 (extract):
Hugh McDonald our sheriff clerk died on 11th current. I find his son is applying for that office… I understand likewise that William Sutherland of Sciberscross our sheriff substitute relies on Forse’s interest with you and the other commissioners for procuring him that office and that he has secured credit for the purchase of it.
then later
Letter of 24-3-1756 (extract):
Mr Baillie at Ardmore informs me that Hugh McDonald’s son succeeds his father as sheriff clerk of Sutherland. His father made demission of the office in favour of his son a week or two before his death.
Can we also assume that this post would appear to go to the highest bidder? And yet Hugh snr resigned on his deathbed passing on this post to his son????
???
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Pat, commissioners are presumably the commissioners of supply for the county, Forse, a laird (there are two Forse's). The army required both influence & cash to fill an officers place in a regiment, some more fashionable than others. It must also have applied with civil posts. Skoosh.
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Hi patval :)
Did you ever get any response to your question posted on the Ask Scotland website? ???
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Hi there, yes I did......
A.
Dear Patricia
I am not sure that I can give a definitive answer to your question. Certainly the position of Town Clerk and Sheriff Clerk in Dornoch passed from father to son.
However according to Michael Hook in ‘A History of the Royal Burgh of Dornoch’ in ‘1729 the council was composed of the Provost, four baillies , a dean of guild, the treasurer and eight councillors one of whom acted as Town Clerk’.
I have found little evidence of what qualifications the Town Clerk and Sheriff Clerk had but Robert Manson in 1655 was a ‘Wrytter in Dornoch’ (Old Dornoch and its Traditions- H.M Mackay)
William Taylor, Sheriff Clerk, whose son and grandson succeeded him holding office for about 100 years, was a lawyer.
It would seem that sometimes the same person held both offices and sometimes not.
I hope however this is of interest.
Kind regards
Susan
References
MacKay, H. M. (Hector Munro) . - Old Dornoch : its traditions and legends / by H. M. MacKay, town-clerk ; wit . - Dingwall : 'North Star', 1920
Hook, Michael . - A history of the Royal Burgh of Dornoch . - Dornoch : Historylinks Museum, 2005 . - 0954425340
......... I am still researching though as I have been unable to source the books referred to......
A never ending task
thanks for your message
regards
Pat
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