RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: patticake on Monday 14 February 11 04:12 GMT (UK)
-
Need help finding where marriage and christening records for the WM Chapels, east Bradford, can be found and searched. Specifically the years 1881-1888 and definitely 1885.
Names: Marriage: George H Waterworth and Harriet Turner. Marriage date unknown but most likely prior to 1885.
Christening: Rose Waterworth, parents above, born 18 February 1885. Registered 12 March of 1885. Subdistrict Bowling. Lived on 65 Sturges Street.
-
Patticake, I can see the following marriage:
George Waterworth / Harriet Arundale
March 1883 / Bradford
Vol No: 9b / Page No: 171
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
or
1883
George Waterworth / Harriet Arundale
St Wilfred, Calverley, Leeds
http://www.yorkshirebmd.info/
Madri
-
Welcome to Rootschat!! If you live near Bradford, then the Bradford Nonconformist records are held at the West Yorkshire Archive Service office in the Central Library in Bradford, although most of them will be available on microfiche at any of the WYAS offices in Halifax, Huddersfield, Leeds and Wakefield. However, I'm sure that a kind Rootschatter will be able to offer to do the look-up on your behalf, if you are unable to get to Yorkshire.
BumbleB
-
I live in the US so I won't be able to do the look up myself :) If someone could check them for me, I would be very grateful. I am at a brickwall trying to find information on Harriet Turner. All I have is her name on the birth record and that she supposedly died, somewhere, in March of 1888. There in no death record in the GRO, no marriage record in the GRO and no way to know which Harriet Turner she might be from the census.
Patti
-
Madri, I too have seen the record with Harriet Arundale and expect to have the the GRO record any day. I think I had it a few years ago and determined that it was incorrect but I am having a second look since I cannot find it.
My Harriet seems to have fallen through the cracks of records. There is high probability that she immigrated with George and baby Rose to the US after 1885 but there are no passenger records with their names. George did immigrate in 1881 and I found that record but nothing later. How the heck did he father a child in Bradford????
-
Gosh Patticake, that is quite a conundrum. Did they re-enter the States via Canada? Harriet's death could be either USA or England??
Is it possible that they never married?
The couple that I gave you the marriage details for (above), I have since found on 1891 Census here in England. I will give you the ref so you can eliminate them.
RG12 / 3750 / 60 / 3 - 5 Phoenix Street, Wakefield
I guess we have to find Harriet & Rose entering the States together or George & his daughter Rose?? I will keep searching.
Madri
-
Calverley marriage 1883 03 24 transcription:
George Waterworth 34 years batchelor blacksmith Rodley father George Waterworth farmer witness Albert Grimshaw.
Harriet Arundale 23years single millhand Farsley father John Arundale millhand witness Sarah Elizabeth Barker
Entry CE127/S/26
Brian
-
Thanks Brian. That confirms the marriage is NOT my George. His father was Thomas and a tailor by trade and George is listed in the 1881 census as a brass finisher.
-
Madri, I do have someone looking into obits in Norristown, PA for the date of Harriet's death. George remarried 6 months later. As for entering via Canada, that is possible but I am fairly certain that Ancestry would have turned that up. Not impossible that it didn't.
I have wondered about them not marrying BUT the birth record indicates Rose's mother as Harriet Waterworth, formerly Turner. Maybe it just didn't get registered, maybe they married in the US and returned to England (which will be impossible to find) or maybe it was her second marriage and Turner isn't the correct name. That is why I hope there is a christening record with the Methodists. I need another name or some piece of information.
Thanks for all your help. If you have any ideas let me know.
How can I attach a scan of the birth record? Looked at the directions but I am not getting the Browse box to upload image. Never mind.
-
Hello Patticake. I have checked marriages here between 1875-1889 for a George Waterworth & Harriet Turner. There is nothing registered on GRO sites or BMDyorkshire.
They may have intended to marry, when they returned to England for the birth, but perhaps 'events or whatever' happened and things changed. It's possible Harriet was a married woman, it's also possible that she was a British woman in America at the time they met.
I also have searched Ancestry, nothing turned up yet. I hope they were not travelling on Alias names!!!
I'm sure something will turn up eventually. It's just a matter of eliminating piece by piece.
Madri
-
Madri, it is SOOO nice to have someone going over the same records and verifying my work. This may remain the one great mystery of my family history in which case I will consider myself lucky.
Anyone still able to look at those Methodist records?????
-
Most late 19 century nonconformist registers are at Kew London and though they have online search engine of these! it supposed to only go up to 1837 ( Reason info can be bought in GRO Births certs 1837) but some late ones are recorded
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/nr/rdonlyres/e9551411-e3a0-45b2-a65a-f7ba8e4b2718/0/lh_lma_nonconformist.pdf
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
WYAS film copy's of these registers may go up to 1890 in Yorkshire repositories but I doubt it. You maybe better asking on the London board (Covering Kew National archive building in Richmond London) as there could someone local who may go there who could/may help you.
There are a few people who do Bradford look ups! but if none answer? then I would assume no Micro films of that register is on film. Or they use the no look ups policy post 1837 when Birth certs can be bought! or only doing pre 1837 Baptism look ups.
Hope it helps
Dobby
-
Hi all. First time user. Will someone be kind enough to do a search for me? I'm in Australia so can not yet to Bradford. Any record, birth, bapt, any record at all from there will be appreciated. ... Thomas William Harvey, born c1861 in Bradford England (to father Thomas William Henry Joseph Harvey). Moved to Australia c1875 (about 14 years old) and was married in a Baptist Church in South Australia in 1889, (where there were no witnesses named Harvey). (All this info comes from his marriage and death certificates).
-
Welcome to rootschat, Maykorent.
Have you found father and son on 1861 or 1871 censuses?
Added:
Are you sure it says Bradford (and on which certificate?)
-
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I can see, from your tree, that Thomas' death certificate transcription states that he was born in Bradford, England and had been resident in Australia for 35 years.
However, I cannot trace a marriage for his father in the England and Wales registrations - FreeBMD - nor a birth registration in Bradford Registration District for Thomas around 1861.
-
Hi chempat.
I've found no good match for any records, census or otherwise. Not even a solid match for his immigration. (I've been struggling with this one for many years). I'm starting to think there may have been an adoption, or his birth may have been registered under his mother's maiden name.
The transcript of his death certificate that I purchased says "Birthplace and length of residence in Australia: Bradford, England, 35 years". "Date of death: 30 September 1910, age 49".
The name of his father comes from the transript of his marriage certificate, (dated 11 April 1889) which includes "Age and condition of groom: 27 years, bachelor". Gooms occupation: farmer.
-
Just putting this for possible father:
Thomas Harvey
Born 20th Nov 1828 at Bradford, Yorkshire
Father: James Farish Mother: Mary Farish
Denomination: Baptist
Piece 1910: Bradford, Westgate Chapel (Baptist), 1784-1837
except that would mean not using surname Farish
-
There is the other thought, related to Baptists - baptisms were not carried out until adulthood, and Thomas William arrives in Australia at the age of 14 :-\
-
chempat
Farish ... I missed that one! I have also found a soldier called Thomas Harvey at the Halifax Barracks in 1851, but no other record of him. (Added to the pile of possible fathers).
-
Just a point of order (There are 2 major city Bradford's)
In 'Greater Manchester' Lancashire
West Manchester is Salford
East Manchester is Bradford
See map link
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bradford,+Manchester+M11+3QG/@53.4830619,-2.252348,13.92z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487bb113680fa4c9:0x3109fe622b0a72d2!8m2!3d53.480315!4d-2.205051
-
I believe I found him!
He was baptised in Ardwick, (a mile and a bit from Bradford, Manchester). Apparently married into a Methodist family after starting off as C of E.
Thanks all ;D
-
Hello
All Marriages from 1837 within England and Wales, should be Registered with the Registration District Civil Registrar (under our Registrar General) and also listed on the General Register Office (G.R.O.) Index, separately under both the Marriage surnames.
Both the marriage parties should have the same (matching) District name, Volume and Page Number, in the G.R.O. Index.
The Index is usually enough (along with finding them in the Census and their child/childrens Birth Certificates) to give the information required to order a Copy Marriage Certificate from the General Register Office (G.R.O.) and these can be ordered on the internet from anywhere in the World I believe, to be sent as Pdfs (or by Post).
Here is an 1873 example sent from the District Registrar's Office covering Selby, Yorkshire, England, for a Wesleyan Methodist Marriage
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=756955.msg6287254#msg6287254
(Reply 695)
The Certified Marriage Copy held by the Registrar General (G.R.O.) might be an exact copy sent by the Minister, or hold the same duplicated information, including Witness names, (many of whom are related, or known to one or both of the family marrying).
If familiar with the local Registration process, sometimes we go direct to the District Registrar, but from elsewhere in the World, people seem to have obtained England and Wales Certified Copies from 1837 fairly easily by online ordering (once they have checked the Marriage image is not already online).
Search here (where you can also check the actual images of the GRO Index)
https://freebmd.org.uk
From 1837 (in England & Wales) a UK Government gov.uk website
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
Some Parish Church Wedding images are online, but if Nonconformist and not online, then it might be easier to find the Birth, Marriage and Death from 1837 in the Civil GRO Register Index, rather than look for individual Chapel Registers, because there were numerous Nonconformist Chapels all over our Country, in rural country Lanes, or villages, to large towns or cities (where there were often several or many Chapels in an area).
To give some idea 60,000 left one particular Nonconformist sect around the mid 19th Century and either went to break away sects, or to C of E, or other Nonconformist sects, or Quakers, or Jews, or even Catholic.
----------
Bear in mind if they Married in Scotland or the Isle of Man or outside of England and Wales, a researcher will have to consider a search of these other Registries too.
Once, a correct matching English & Wales Civil Marriage Certificate is obtained, this should also give the Chapel, Register Office, or place etc., where the Marriage took place.
----------
It is possible my ancestor might have become what is known as a 'Quaker Methodist' and possibly why the Quakers refused his Quaker Membership application in 1836. However, the Quakers buried him in 1845 as Not in Membership.
I have recently seen some information, indicating some would be at the Parish Church Sunday morning, then at their own Nonconformist Meeting in the afternoon. Some were even trying to draw Anglican / C of E attenders away to their own Nonconformist Meetings.
Mark