RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Old Laughin Lady on Monday 18 April 05 17:01 BST (UK)
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I have reached the proverbial brick wall with my search.
I cannot trace any birth records for my Great Great Grandfather, Dennis McGurn and in the 1881 census he is married and living in Paisley and it states he was born Glasgow/Lanark around 1857 - 1859.
There are no traces of him on the 1871 census. To add to the confusion his father has a different name on different documents.
Dennis's marriage certificate names his father as Martin McGurn and his mother Margaret McGurn nee Campbell. His death certificate names his father as Patrick McGurn and his mother Margaret McGurn nee Campbell, again no trace of Martin McGurn on the 1871 census, although he may be deceased by then, but I cannot trace his death certificate either.
I did find a death certificate for Helen McGurn who died in 1863, her parents were Martin & Margaret. The death was registered by his brother Patrick. They lived in Hill Street Anderston Glasgow.
I did trace a marriage certificate for a Patrick McGurn and Margaret Campbell 1861. Coincidence ??
What I need to know is, were Martin & Margaret ever married, were there 2 Margaret Campbells. Perhaps Dennis's parents both died young and he was raised by his uncle Patrick, there are a lot of Patricks out there at that time.
and where can I get info on Martin & Margarets marriage (this may have been in Ireland) Martins death and Dennis' birth. I believe they were Roman Catholics.
Dennis fathered 10 children. They all had similar names to other McGurns in the glasgow area around 1871 ie Margaret, Mary, Elizabeth, Isabella, John, William, Denis, Hugh. Martin & Sarah died in infancy.
Is there anywhere I can get any of this information. Any help is greatly appreciated. :)
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Hi, I can't see a Martin McGurn in Glasgow index 1851/61
If Helen/Ellen McGurn was born after 1855, her birth cert will give her parents date of marriage, if they did indeed marry.
Liz
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Hi Liz
Thanks for checking that out. No birth records for Helen either I'm afraid.
So looks like I've reached the end of the road with my Scottish search. :(
Maggie
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Maggie, This birth record is in IGI so it must be on 'scotlandspeople'
ELLEN MCGURN
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
22 JUL 1862 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: MARTIN MCGURN Family
Mother: MARGARET CAMPBELL
Liz
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Liz
Your a star. I dont know what I was doing wrong but I just couldnt find it, so I just typed in the surname and year of birth that you gave me and there is a record there. :)Unfortunately there is a problem with the site at the moment, so it means I cant view it yet. Maybe I will get a marriage date there or at least some clues.
Is there any mention of a Dennis/Denis's birth on your magical IGI site. He would have been born 1857 -59, ages differ on each document, or is this a site anyone can access and I could check for myself?
Thanks again for your help with this..all may not yet be lost :)
Maggie
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Maggie, It's the LDS site, where you can search for births and marriages, it is not complete. It also has 1880/1 census for USA, Canada and England.
www.familysearch.org
Liz
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Hi Liz
I managed to view the birth certificate for Ellen/Helen, it has Martin McGurn as the father and Margaret Campbell as the mother, married in Glasgow in 1854.
No marriage records !!
Is there anywhere I can access a 1861 census ? in the hope they may be there..although they dont seem to be recorded anywhere else.
I tried the site you mentioned and eventually managed to get some names...it was a bit of a struggle getting information...
Any advice will be appreciated before I sink into the McGurn black hole as they all seem to have moved around a bit and ages differ greatly which leads to even more confusion and frustration.
thanks
Maggie
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Maggie,, I think I've found him in 1861 index.
Census taken ANDERSON 644/8 enum dis 45 page 8
Martin McGorran age 34 born Antrim Ireland
Margaret age 30 born Donegal Ireland
Dennis age 5 born Glasgow
Patrick age 1 born Glasgow
McGurn/McGorran, How those emumerators like to make it difficulf for us in our search.
All the best
Liz
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Liz
Thanks again for your help. Have found Martin McGorran & Margaret Campbell marriage on Scotlands People, unfortunately there are no records available to view..does it get any harder?
The info you gave me from the census means my Great Grandfather was born in 1856, but no birth records found under McGorran/McGurn. Nor no death records for Martin. Maybe he and Margaret went back to Ireland ?
I suppose if they had to make their X mark, then they couldnt read either, so they would just agree with what was written down for them and the spelling gradually changed.
I will continue on with my search...suppose Ireland will be my next quest.
Once again thanks for your help.
Maggie
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Liz
Just a quick update, I think I have found Dennis's birth certificate, following your lead, I have tried all spellings, and he is Dennis McGorren.
Cant access it yet as I am work.
Thanks for the tips.
Maggie
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Maggie, That's good news. When searching you can use * in place of letters. e.g. Den*is will give you Denis and Dennis. Searching for Martin McGurn/McGorren/McGorran, death try McG*r*n This should bring up all of the above name varients, possibly others, but should narrow down your search.
Cheers Liz
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Liz
Thanks again for your tips.
Have found Dennis's birth certificate and his mother Margarets death certificate.
Still no sign of Martins death certificate, Margaret died first in 1869 and I know Martin was deceased by 1881, I have tried all spellings. There is no record of him in the 1871 census, so he may have died soon after Margaret, though perhaps not in Scotland and thats why I cannot find him on Scotlands people.
If Martin died soon after Margaret the family would have been very young and perhaps Dennis was raised by Martins brother Patrick, hence the different fathers names on his birth, marriage and death certificates.
You gave me the info that Dennis had a brother Partick aged 1 in 1861, I have found a Patrick aged 10 living in boardings with other children in Ardrossan on the 1871 census, there is also a Martin McGurn aged 4. I still have to find out if they are brothers and if they are Dennis's brothers. They may have been fostered if their parents died soon after each other and none of the other family members were able to take them in. Thats my next task.
It would have been easier if they had given their children unique christian names, but then that would have made it too easy for us.
Cheers
Maggie