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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mama on Tuesday 08 February 11 06:56 GMT (UK)

Title: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Tuesday 08 February 11 06:56 GMT (UK)
Could someone kindly find Alfred and Frances Hartley on 1860/70 Census.  They were married in Calverley, nr.Bradford in 1856.  If I have the correct Frances (nee Maude) she was a weaver in Clayton w.Yorkshire prior to marriage.
Thankyou
Mama
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 08 February 11 07:29 GMT (UK)
Hi

Could this be them in 1881?  If so they were in America for the birth of their first child before the 1861 census

Alfred HARTLEY   age  50   born England   Stone Cutter   
 Frances HARTLEY   Wife   age  43   bn ENG   Keep'G House     
 Fanny HARTLEY   Daughter age  21   born ME     
 Alfred HARTLEY   Son  age   16   born ME     
 Lilly HARTLEY   Daughter age  10   born MA       

Census Place Manchester, Chesterfield, Virginia

Rosie
 
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Tuesday 08 February 11 09:33 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately it seems a co-incidence with people the same name.  FRances Maud/Maude was possibly born about 1809 (I don't know the exact date) which would make the age difference incorrect.  She gave birth to a daughter Mary Ann Maude (single mother) about 1829 who was married in 1850 in Elland Church.
The marriage I found of Frances Maud and Alfred Hartley was 1856.  The ages don't seem to be right
I will do some more work on it tomorrow and see what else I can come up with.
Thanks for your information.
Marg.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 08 February 11 10:02 GMT (UK)
Sorry! Getting confused here.

Do you have any dates for Alfed and Frances, apart from their wedding in 1856?
If you suspect that Frances was born in 1809, then she would have been 47 at marriage?
Was she a widow?

Of course, all these answers would be on the marriage certificate!
Ages, Fathers names & occupations, addresses, and witnesses. All helpful stuff.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 08 February 11 16:33 GMT (UK)
Hi

The 1856 marriage is on the IGI  http://www.familysearch.org/

Frances Maud  age 21 father James Maud
Alfred Hartley  age 25  (no fathers name given)
13th January 1856   Calverley, Yorkshire

This does not tie in with a 1809 birth  ???
Is this what you mean the ages don't seem right.

Rosie
 
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Tuesday 08 February 11 20:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply.  I am sure that I have the wrong couple as Frances Maud I am looking for gave birth to a daughter about 1829.  Back to the drawing board.
Marg.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 08 February 11 21:18 GMT (UK)
Perhaps you should tell us exactly what you DO know, from concrete evidence, and then let us help you find the missing pieces.

Have you any birth or marriage certificates?
Any confirmed dates?
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 08 February 11 21:39 GMT (UK)
She gave birth to a daughter Mary Ann Maude (single mother) about 1829 who was married in 1850 in Elland Church.

Perhaps this baptism (from IGI, extracted)?

MARY ANN MAUD

Birth: 14 AUG 1828   

Christening:  28 JUL 1829   
Ebenezer Primitive Methodist, Halifax
 
Daughter of FRANCES MAUD
 
www.familysearch.org
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Wednesday 09 February 11 05:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply.  What you have sent regarding her birth and baptism  is practically all I know.
Some extra info on Mary Anns baptism record from the register :
Baptised - 28th July 1829, Mary Ann - a female, Born - in the Parish of Bradford 14th August 1828,  Mother - Frances Maud, Abode - Clayton, Occupation - Weaver, Her X mark, baptised by Josiah Partington  This information was sent to me previouslys yet I don't have her birth certificate
I am trying to find the registration number of Mary Ann Maud's birth so that I may apply for a birth certificate. As it is prior to BMD could you tell me where I can look for the registration number?  Mary Ann Maud was married in 1850 in Elland to William Shaw.  On her marriage certificate the signature for her father was Joseph Drake.
I have information on Mary and Ann, her husband and children, my aim now is to find out more about Frances Maud and her parents.
Marg.
Marg.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 09 February 11 07:27 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find the registration number of Mary Ann Maud's birth so that I may apply for a birth certificate. As it is prior to BMD could you tell me where I can look for the registration number? 

If she was born before July 1837 then there will NOT be a birth certificate!

Birth certificates were only issued once civil registration started.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 09 February 11 09:05 GMT (UK)
On her marriage certificate the signature for her father was Joseph Drake.

Fathers don't sign English marriage certificates, unless they happen to be a witness in which case they sign in that capacity.

Who were the witnesses to the marriage (there should have been at least two) and what exactly were the details (if any) given regarding Mary Ann's father?  Any clues may be helpful in tracing Frances.  Presumably you don't yet know whether Frances was still alive by the 1841 census?
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 09 February 11 09:14 GMT (UK)
Seeing as how the abode at the birth of Mary Ann was Clayton, I checked the 1841 census for any Maud/e family in Clayton.

Reference is HO107, Piece 1295, Book/Folio 2/10, Page 14
Paliah, Bradford, Clayton

Maude, Joshua  M  55  Weaver Worsted
Maude, Mary  F  60
Maude, Satah  F  20
Maude, Jonathan  M  20
Maude, William  M  15
Maude, James  M  10      All born in Yorkshire

I would assume that these are family?


Furthermore, I can only find 1 female Frances Maude in the whole of Yorkshire, and she is married to Francis Maude!
There is a 40 year old Frances Maud, but she is married to Joseph Maud.
Also a 50 year old in Hunslet, married to Robert Maud.
The remaining 2 Frances Mauds are aged 6 and 15.

Conclusion?
Frances Maude has either married between 1829 and 1841, or she has died
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: Calverley Lad on Wednesday 09 February 11 14:37 GMT (UK)
Looking at the entry for the marriage of Alfred and Frances 1856 01 13, the father of Frances is James Maud (cordwainer) whilst Alfred's father David (delver).
No occupation for Frances is given.
 Brian
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Thursday 10 February 11 00:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all those who replied.
Regarding the Marriage Certificate of Mary Ann Maude.  The witnesses were "Amos Crowther" and "James Boothroyd" and the names of the parents were entered.  The bride's father was said to be Joseph Drake occupation "Mason". I have tried previously to find Joseph Drake in the Stainland, Elland area where they were married.  Maybe that he came from an area closer to Bradford.
I had noted that there was a Frances Maud in Hunslet but found that Hunslet was closer to Leeds and hoped to find something around Bradford.
I found the marriage of Joshua Maud and Mary Hartley on 23/2/12 in Bradford but could't find any birth for Frances (or Fanny) that tied in.  I am limited in resources really so appreciate any information and welcome suggestions (as long as they are kind ones!)
I only assumed that Frances was a single mother as there wasn't any father mentioned on her Certificate.  Maybe she was married or  widowed?
Marg.
Title: Re: Census lookup Alfred and Frances Hartley
Post by: mama on Thursday 10 February 11 06:20 GMT (UK)
I have found a Frances Maude born in Norland (yorkshire) daughter of John Maude.  She married William Horsfall on 1st September 1849.  This was found on IGI, information taken from 1881 CEnsus.  I have not been able to confirm their marriage on BDM

Marg.