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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: John117 on Monday 07 February 11 22:29 GMT (UK)
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My Great-Grandparents, John Allan and Martha Giffin married on 21 June 1864 and lived in Ballymena, Co Antrim. John Allan was a Seedsman. Any information regarding either family would be gratefully received.
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat. I have found the marriage and there are at least nine children.
21 Jun 1864 John Allan married Martha Giffin in Cullybackey Reformed Presbyterian Church, Ballymena.
The fathers were Robert Allan and Thomas Giffin. Children were:-
14 May 1865 Robert (died young)
28 Oct 1866 Mary
19 Dec 1868 John
15 Dec 1869 Thomas James
12 Apr 1871 Robert
4 Oct 1872 Jesse Anderson
3 May 1874 Martha
17 Dec 1876 William
26 Jan 1879 Arthur Ross.
Regards
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Dear kingskerswell
Many thanks for your very informative reply...you've provided the names of my great, great-grandfathers.....would you have the names of my great, great grandmothers too ?
Regards
John117
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Hi,
Sorry, Irish marriage records do not list mothers' names.
Regards
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Dear John117,
Maggie Allan b.30 May 1881 was the 10th child
I have a good amount of John & Martha Allan's descendants researched as well as all the Giffin connection. Please PM me to get in touch.
regards
Alistair
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Hi John 117
Welcome to Rootschat
I too have Giffen connections in Ireland and you can't go wrong contacting Alistair as he has been researching all the Giffen families in Ireland for years and has very sound information.
Some time ago I picked up an advertisement on line re a business in Antrim circa 1880's. I was looking for verification of our James Giffen in Belfast who was a grocer. This one turned out to be a grocer named James Giffen in Ballymena who besides other things in the ad was a seed merchant. If you think there is a connection I will send it along. But most of all talk to Alistair.
Good luck on you searches
Twitter
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Hi John 117
Thanks for the PM. I have to send this here as the rules say you can't add an attachment to a PM---so here goes. My Giffen's all appear to originate in Carrickfergus and then some moved to Belfast. I have a feeling that if you could get back in the records far enough they are all related. The "in" or "en" endings seem to me to be changes over time or transcription errors. The following is just the ad and I tried most of the morning to locate where I got it but so far no luck. I have some pretty good data on the Giffen's of Carrick if you are interested as there may be a connection. Who knows.
Twitter
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James Giffen of Albert Place Ballymena in the advert in Bassett's 1888 County Antrim directory is the brother of Martha Allan nee Giffin. He died in 1894, his wife and middle daughter having been killed in a storm in 1875 when a chimney fell on them. Their headstones in Cullybackey Reformed Presbyterian have both Giffin and Giffen but the family name of all the Ballymena ones is Giffin.
The Carrickfergus Giffen family are definitely 'en' and almost certainly descend from the Carnmoney Giffens who came from Ayrshire around 1730. The Ballymena Giffins (and Givens) are originally from Cullybackey and came there from Scotland in the 1740s. They may be connected back in Scotland but while in Ireland I am sure they were separate families.
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The different spellings Giffin was a bit confusing at the start of my research.....I thought I was looking at two different families.
As a young teenager, I remember being told of ancestors being killed by a chimney collapsing but didn't know exactly who they were or how they were related to me!
This now makes sense - thanks
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Hi Alistair, I came across this post looking for information regarding my Given roots in Cullybackey. I've got back as far as James Given, b. 1807 to John (and, I think, Rebecca Mark), but the early history is still unclear.
Your comment about the family coming from Scotland matches some of the stories I have about Ayrshire roots. Do you have any more information, or sources for this piece of information?
Any help would be very much appreciated :)
Peter
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I have just started, in 2016, to research my connections with the Allan/Allen Family from Ballymena. My starting point was information from my father that my Great Grandmother Frances {Fanny} Elizabeth Allen's (b. 1859) father was John Allen and that she also had a relative named Mrs Burns, Mountjoy Road, Ballymena. I have discovered that witness to Fanny's marriage in 1877 were a Thomas & Agnes Allen and a Nancy Allen registered the birth of her first child in 1879 at Creebilly, Ballymena. The child (surname McCullough) only lived for 3 days. Is there any known connection to my Great Grandmother Allen with Isabella Burns (nee Allan), whose husband was a draper in Church Street, Ballymena and John Allan, Seed Merchant, Church Street, Ballymena, who died in 1909. John Allen also listed in 1901 Irish Census but not in 1911 Irish Census.
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
she also had a relative named Mrs Burns, Mountjoy Road, Ballymena
Do you have any idea of when Mrs. Burns would have lived there?
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As my Great Grandmother Frances (Fanny) McCullough (nee Allen) died in Belfast during 1934 I suspect Mrs Burns lived in Mountjoy Road, Ballymena around that time.
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Can't find a Mountjoy Road in Ballymena :-\ there is one in Omagh, along with Mountjoy Streets in Belfast & Londonderry.
So trying another tack. Here's Thomas (draper) & Isabella Burns in 1911- she's born Co. Armagh:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballymena__No__2__Urban__In_34_files_/Church_Street/117384
However, 1901 says Isabella born County Down:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Church_Street/925846
Husband Thomas born in County Tyrone (according to both census) so wondering if 'Mountjoy' could be the name of their house rather than a street name?
Thomas Burns, son of William, married (1870 Co. Antrim) Isabella Allen, daughter of Robert
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Thomas Burns died 1920- address still Church St.-
Probate of the Will of Thomas Burns late of Church Street, Ballymena, Co. Antrim, Draper and J.P., who died 4 April 1920 granted at Belfast 17 May 1920 to Robert MacDonnell, Manager and Henry O'Hara, Clerk and Robert Allan Burns, Draper. Effects: £5051 14s 0d.
Burns Eleanor of Church Street Ballymena county Antrim spinster died 10 December 1954 Probate Belfast 15 July to James Eric Whiteside Adams draper and James Henry Bamber solicitor. Effects £2615 17s.
Burns Robert Allan of Church Street Ballymena county Antrim retired draper died 7 November 1945 Probate Belfast 29 January to Eleanor Burns spinster and James Whiteside Adams draper. Effects £356 5s. 3d.
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I have discovered that witness to Fanny's marriage in 1877 were a Thomas & Agnes Allen and a Nancy Allen registered the birth of her first child in 1879 at Creebilly, Ballymena.
William Allen, son of John, married Agnes/Nancy Cunning
Fanny (1879) m.(1904) George Campbell
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02899/2062037.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10204/5713547.pdf
Agnes Skelly (1882)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02763/2014605.pdf
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballyclug/Crebilly/938928
Administration of the Estate of William Allen late of Crebilly County Antrim Gentleman who died 7 December 1907 granted at Belfast to William J. Allen Farmer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05516/4545833.pdf
Sounds like you might not have looked at this Will on PRONI's site?
Probate of the Will of James Allen late of Crebilly County Antrim Farmer who died 5 June 1895 at Ballymena County Antrim granted at Belfast to Robert Greer of Ballykeel County Antrim Farmer.
Can't find a John Allen, seed merchant, who died in 1909 :-\
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Thanks for your latest post. I believe one of my problems (which has plagued me all my life!) is the spelling of the name Allen/Allan/Alan. The Allan name has been a family Christian Name since 1917 but it seems from my research, and your valued contributions, that I need to concentrate on the Allen spelling. I say that because I know that my Great Grandmother had a family link with "Craig Billy Bog" now known as Crebilly. A family story also suggests links with a relative who was a Coachman to the Auld family (who were allegedly Titled), from Carncastle near Larne who "ran off" and married the Auld's daughter! There is an Allen family listed there in the 1841 Irish Census.
Yes I have been searching at PRONI and did find Probate granted on 8 Oct 1910 for John Allen, late of Church Street, Ballymena, Seed Merchant, died 1 Dec 1909, to James Richardson, Commercial Traveller, and Robert A Burns, Draper. Effects £3,244 16s 4d. Again the record shows Allen but should probably have been Allan?
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Yes I have been searching at PRONI and did find Probate granted on 8 Oct 1910 for John Allen, late of Church Street, Ballymena, Seed Merchant, died 1 Dec 1909, to James Richardson, Commercial Traveller, and Robert A Burns, Draper. Effects £3,244 16s 4d. Again the record shows Allen but should probably have been Allan?
This is the Will Extract- Probate of the Will of John Allan late of Church Street Ballymena County Antrim Seed Merchant who died 1 December 1909 granted at Belfast to James Richardson Commercial Traveller and Robert A. Burns Draper
Death certificate shows Robert Giffin, Ballee as informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05438/4520989.pdf
John Allan & family in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Church_Street/925813
You don't need to worry about exact spelling of names until fairly recent times but when quoting a record you do need to quote the name in that record.
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You can find MIs for Giffin (and variations), plus many of the other names mentioned on 'The Braid' site .. http://www.thebraid.com/genealogy.aspx .. Many go back into the 1700s
Bill
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Many thanks for your latest post and advice. I will make sure that I add the source reference(s) in future posts. I have to take a short break from research but will be on line again soon.