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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Helene hanff on Sunday 06 February 11 15:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I started off doing a friend a favour trying to find background info about her family and found out we are related, so now I want to know about Horafield Street . I believe it was in the St Johns area. I can't find it on a map. in 1891 John Cooper Brass was an engine driver, so if anyone can tell me more about life for an engine driver that would be fantastic.
Don't want much do I.
Thanks
Rosemary
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I think you may mean Horsefield St. Which runs behind St. John's Church and comes out onto North Ormesby Road, still there as far as I know.
James
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Hi Rosemary,
I would agree with James - it is written as Horsfield St. ! :)
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9540/47220094.jpg)
Pels.
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Thank you very much
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Hi again Rosemary,
Regarding your query about John being an Engine Driver, he may have been employed to drive a type of railway engine, but I think it's just as likely he was employed to operate a piece of machinery.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bpu/
Stationery Engine Driver : A person who operates a steam engine which is used for pumping water, or operates sewage, or driving machinery in an industrial environment such as a factory, mill or mine.
Factory Engine Driver : A person who drives a factory engine that takes the wagons to and from the factory to the sidings on the main lines for collection.
What occupation did he hold on the other census returns - that might give you a clue ! :)
Pels.
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In reply to my own query, curiosity got the better of me. Railway Engine Driver in 1901 and a Fireman for the NE Railway in 1881.
I'll point this in the direction of someone who most likely won't have seen this thread ! :)
Kind regards,
Pels.
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You wanted to know what the life of an engine driver was like. My father drove for the LNER and later BR from 1942 until his retirement in 1964. I worked in traincrew administration for most of my working life.
There were and are stringent eyesight and medical standards to be employed on the footplate. In the steam era you started as an engine cleaner, and progressed to cleaner passed for firing (available for spare firing turns) then fireman, then fireman passed for driving (spare driving turns) and finally driver. You had to be 5feet 2inches aged 16, 5feet 4inches at 18 and over, with 6/6 vision in each eye normal colour vision and medically fit, subject to periodic medical exams on promotion and at 5 yearly intervals, annual after age 60. Additionally you had to pass technical examinations for promotion, and when passed for driving had to be thoroughly conversant with the signals and speed restrictions etc, over any route you drove over. You were rostered round the clock, with a minimum of 12 hours rest between footplate turns and medical exams, 8 hours for non footplate turns except medicals. There were generally no baths or washing facilities at the depot so you came home dirty and washed at home. Meals were eaten on the footplate, egg and bacon often fried on the shovel! For the other members of the household there was the disruption of irregular shift work. Often the cry to small boys playing outside, "Remember, Dad's in bed" After 1948, one day off per fortnight, later a weekly day off. Enhanced payments for overtime and shift allowances, but basic pay £10 per week for a driver in 1955, and £15/1/- when Dad retired in Jan 1964. Small pension 3/9 per week from BR, and no sick pay. What else would you like to know before I run out of space/
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Thank you very much, I have been busy googling away trying so hard to find out about railway drivers and all along syou had answered my question thanks a million
regards
Rosemary
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Hello
Can anyone tell me when the houses in Horsfield Middlesbrough were built and also when they were demolished. I have just "walked" the street with google and can't get a taste for the area as it is all industrial now. Was it all two up two down houses.
I have just done a list of the people living in the houses 1-14 taken from the 1881 census. I had intended to do more but Find my past website is down for maintenance.
Can anyone help again
Rosemary
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To get a feeling for the street look at the 1901 and 1911 censuses. If a high proportion of the occupations of the residents are railway occupations then there is a likelihood that the street was houses provided by the railway compnay. Gazeteers for the area should give an indication as to when the houses were demolished. Year on year there will be a decline in the number of houses listed. Old electoral registers held in the local reference library will confirm the situation.
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Hi
I looked at the 1881 and 1891 census and did a spreadsheet with the fourteen houses listed in 1881 there is a mixture of employment from 6 labourers, 2 moulders, blacksmith, boilersmith, bricklayer fitter and turner E&M, mariner, engineman 22-2, an engine fitter and finally two engineers. In 1891 there are now 24 houses a waterside labourer, 2 general labourers, rigger, 3 ship wrights, painter, machine sawyer, commision agent, pipe moulder, seaman, stationery engineman, ship plater, driller, coach smith, ships broker, patent steel wire drawer, bricklayer, blacksmith striker, steamcrane driver, engine fitter, cabinet maker and finally my family an engine driver.
Thanks for your help. I presume the houses were two up two down and the census number of rooms for 1891 shows 4 and living in no, 9 there was head wife and nine children cramped or what.
regards
Rosemary
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Hi again,
A later census informs us some of the houses in the street were actually only two roomed properties, whereas number 24 - if that was the right house, had four rooms and eight occupants. Ages ranged from forty seven years old, down to seven years of age. The head of house was a Labourer employed in a Chemical Works.
Pels.
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Hi again,
A later census informs us some of the houses in the street were actually only two roomed properties, whereas number 24 - if that was the right house, had four rooms and eight occupants. Ages ranged from forty seven years old, down to seven years of age. The head of house was a Labourer employed in a Chemical Works.
Not sure what happened there - it told me the first reply hadn't posted.
Pels.
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Thanks for that
Rosemary
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That sometimes happens to me too Pels :) Rosemary, I think we are fairly safe in assuming that this was not purpose built railway housing.Next step, google old maps, and see if you can get an approximate date from the ordnance survey maps when the area was developed, if it appears as built up on all the OS maps, then a tithe map for the area should give an idea. This will be in the range 1800-1840.
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Hi
I looked at the 1895 and 1955 maps and so know that the street hadn't changed so sometime after then the industrial area was developed
thanks for your help
regards
Rosemary
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Horsefield St. is shown as mapped on a local map of Middlesbrough in 1866 for Beer licence Applications although there are no indications of properties. It is Map no.8 in The History of Middlesbrough in Maps Published by the Cleveland & Teesside Local History Society ISBN 0 9507199 0 0. I obtained mine from the Middlesbrough Archives in Marton Road Middlesbrough (The Old GPO building) Many years ago.
I visited Horsefield St this morning although it retains the same shape as early maps, it has been redeveloped, the only original building left is St. John the Evangelist Church consecrated 1865, there are some buildings which are the rear facades of properties on Marton Rd though probably 50s or 60s era. I remember the whole of that area being demolished from the early 70s onwards
James
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Gosh Thank you James that was great of you. The heart and soul of towns gets ripped out when the new areas get redeveloped. Some people call it progress
thanks
Rosemary
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As the church was consecrated in 1865 I think it is fairly safe to assume that this was the general timescale in which the street was first built. Does the church have its own graveyard?
Your next move is to look at the electoral registers for the street from 1950 onwards, they will be available in the local reference library. When the population in the street begins to fall that is usually when the redevelopment has begun. When the population falls to a low figure, usually less than 20 then the development is complete, the residual population consisting of live-in caretakers, pub landlords etc., and of course in this case mostly likely a clergyman at the church.
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Hi Rosemary,
it was progess for me, we had to move out of the area in 1970 to a posh place called Brambles farm where they had bathrooms :o
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Anyone know of the "Hunter" family from Horsfield Street?
My mother was born in 1924 and lived there.
Dont know a great deal more , other than her name - Clara Hunter
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Hi Rosemary,
it was progess for me, we had to move out of the area in 1970 to a posh place called Brambles farm where they had bathrooms :o
Hopefully you moved out before the local public baths closed! :)
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Thanks everyone for their help. The mention of the local baths reminds me of my home town. I got married moved to Germany for a year and came back to find the local swimming baths my dad had worked at GONE. It wasn't cost effective apparently. I was devastated. That was also in the 70's
Rosemary
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Thanks everyone for their help. The mention of the local baths reminds me of my home town. I got married moved to Germany for a year and came back to find the local swimming baths my dad had worked at GONE. It wasn't cost effective apparently. I was devastated. That was also in the 70's
Rosemary
An earlier attempt to prop up a failed economic system by cutting services! Do we never learn?